Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

[otakuryoga]

Spoiler: 7 Mana 4/4

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Stone Sentinel
Epic Shaman Elemental
7 Mana 4/4
Battlecry: If you played an Elemental last turn, summon two 2/3 Elementals with Taunt.

i honestly saw that as 4 mana 7/7 (you know..because...shaman)
and thought good gawds, not another one

[Rodin]

I'd probably have gone with the Renounce there. It's not amazing, but you can play it in a bad spot in the hope of getting cheap removal from some other class, and at the very least you get an extra random hero power use (of which 3 can gain you life, and several offer extra damage that turn). Crab isn't that bad though, sometimes it's actually excellent.

I think I would have stuck with the Crab myself. Murlocs aren't uncommon in Arena since the best Neutral AoE comes from one and they have several decent 2-drops (Puddlestomper, both Tidehunters, Blowgill Sniper).

Renounce will typically make your deck worse. Even as a desperation card it requires having other Warlock cards in hand. That's something you can't rely on in Arena, and at best you're typically going to be swapping out 2-3 cards in your hand. The Warlock hero power is also one of the best in Arena since card draw is hard to come by. Chances are you make it worse by swapping unless you're already really low on HP.

Renounce would give the one-in-a-million chance of a win, but Hungry Crab would be more reliable. Even at worst, it's a 1/2 for 1, which is bad but not terrible.

[The Glyphstone]

The sub-theme of 'Things you did last turn matter' is interesting. Sort of like a reverse-direction Overload mechanic.

[PsyBomb]

New card thoughts:

Spoiler: Clutchmother Zavas

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2 mana Warlock Legendary Minion (Beast). 2/2, when discarded it returns to hand and gains +2/+2. Well, we just found a must-craft legendary for Disco, and it would be even if it only returned to hand. This HUGELY mitigates your costs while still allowing you to trigger your effects, and then has the audacity to be a massive finisher in the end game if you need something big. This is where my Ragnaros dust is going.

The Elemental theme is actually really cool, IMHO. It both forces planning in advance, and encourages counterplay/setup for savvy enemies. Some of these are going to be obvious telegraphs when you set them up, but also possibly good bluffs.

Spoiler: Ozruk

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9 mana Neutral Legendary Minion (Elemental). 5/5 Taunt, battleg+5(!) health for each Elemental played the previous turn. Blog said they've seen it hit 30 health in testing, and I believe it. Unless the enemy has hard removal or a serious workaround, even a Jade Army will take a while to get through this guy. Getting him to 15 seems trivial, and most of us have had to kill a Jaraxxus on the field at least once for reference. I like it, but keep solutions around if your deck doesn't routinely end games by 8.

Spoiler: Stone Sentinel

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7 mana Shaman Epic Minion (Elemental). 4/4 Battlecry summons two 2/3 Elemental with Taunt. Alright, alone this thing is worthless. Activated, it's 8/10 of stats for 7 across three bodies, two of which Taunt. In Midrange decks, this makes a possible finisher setup by putting tons of bodies out. Solid, not sure if it will be actively played but it's possible.

Spoiler: Fire Fly

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1 mana Neutral Common Minion (Elemental). 1/2, Battlecry add a 1/2 Elemental to your hand. This is shockingly good, actually, but not if used for early plays. Two Elemental minions in one card, totaling 2/4 for 2. Triggers the master Elementals for days, strings up combos and on-play triggers (VanCleef and Questing come to mind), and supports the Elemental themes well (hello, Ozumat). He's going to see play if Elemental minions do at all, possibly even if they don't. I may be biased as a Browncoat, but that's incidental.

Spoiler: Flame Geyser

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2 mana Common Mage Spell. Deal 2 damage and add a 1/2 Elemental to your hand. Decent, for the same reason Fire Fly is good (but less because it's class-locked). This lets you deal with minor threats while stockpiling Elemental triggers.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Re: Clutchmother. It all depends on whether or not the emerging Discard archetype ends up being competitive. A good card for a weak deck is ultimately a weak card, in the grand scheme of things.

Ozruk: Looks fun. Vulnerable as heck to the many, many cards out there designed to efficiently counter big beefy things. If I get this guy out of a pack I'll definitely try an Elemental deck. For some reason I'm thinking about running this in Priest. Inner Fire ftw.

Stone Sentinel. I dunno. Their health totals just happen to line up with Flamestrike perfectly and that makes me uncomfortable. But a 4/4 and two 2/3 Taunts for 7 is decent. You're definitely not going to play this without the synergy though.


Fire Fly, Flame Geyser, Flame Elemental: Looks like a gimmicky way to inflate your Elemental count. Adding cards to your hand without drawing is normally good, but these cards are weak on their own merits. I'd have to guess that Mage will have some kind of stacking Elemental payoff otherwise Flame Geyser doesn't make sense.

[Destro_Yersul]

Stone Sentinel. I dunno. Their health totals just happen to line up with Flamestrike perfectly and that makes me uncomfortable. But a 4/4 and two 2/3 Taunts for 7 is decent. You're definitely not going to play this without the synergy though.

If your opponent flamestrikes one card, that's a good thing for you.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

If your opponent flamestrikes one card, that's a good thing for you.

That is true. Trading one for one is not how you'd like to use a board clear. But you can't leave the three amigos up to do 8 damage/turn either. I guess it's a good card? I try to be cautiously optimistic about these things.

[moossabi]

1 mana Neutral Common Minion (Elemental). 1/1, Battlecry add a 1/2 Elemental to your hand. This is shockingly good, actually, but not if used for early plays. Two Elemental minions in one card, totaling 2/3 for 2. Triggers the master Elementals for days, strings up combos and on-play triggers (VanCleef and Questing come to mind), and supports the Elemental themes well (hello, Ozumat). He's going to see play if Elemental minions do at all, possibly even if they don't. I may be biased as a Browncoat, but that's incidental.[/SPOILER]

Fire Fly is actually a 1/2, so the powerlevel is actually even higher than you already give it credit for.

[PsyBomb]

Fire Fly is actually a 1/2, so the powerlevel is actually even higher than you already give it credit for.

Huh, misread that. Thanks, fixing

[Anarion]

That is true. Trading one for one is not how you'd like to use a board clear. But you can't leave the three amigos up to do 8 damage/turn either. I guess it's a good card? I try to be cautiously optimistic about these things.

It's a pretty solid card. The vulnerability to flamestrike is present though. Like, if you spent your previous turn playing small elementals to turn it on, then play the big thing and they aoe, you've probably lost a whole board and two turns worth of work and cards. But in general, 3 solid bodies represents a strong threat.

[PsyBomb]

It's a pretty solid card. The vulnerability to flamestrike is present though. Like, if you spent your previous turn playing small elementals to turn it on, then play the big thing and they aoe, you've probably lost a whole board and two turns worth of work and cards. But in general, 3 solid bodies represents a strong threat.

That one is just a yes/no, though, so you could have only played one with a solid defense on 6. Even something like the Neutral tar guy and three mana spent on a Hex is solid.

[Destro_Yersul]

Or the aforementioned fire elemental, which has 5 health.

[Grytorm]

For Stone Sentinel the comparisons that I think of are Jade Chieftain and Call of the Wild. One saw a lot of play (I miss that card) and the other has seen not a lot I think. That might be because it was to slow for an aggressive deck. Notably it lacks Huffer which granted call a good amount of flexibility.

[Fable Wright]

For Stone Sentinel the comparisons that I think of are Jade Chieftain and Call of the Wild. One saw a lot of play (I miss that card) and the other has seen not a lot I think. That might be because it was to slow for an aggressive deck. Notably it lacks Huffer which granted call a good amount of flexibility.

Jade Chieftain is a very solid role-player in Jade Midrange Shaman. It hadn't been seen because, well, Aggro Shaman existed, but nowadays it's oftentimes 10+ stats for 7 mana, a large portion of which is Taunt. You won't find a midrange list that can run Chieftain and isn't running 2 copies. It's good, stupidly so if you can land it with Brann out. It just needs a slower meta than Pirate Warrior vs Aggro Shaman to exist in.

[Gandariel]

Jade chieftain is really strong and played in most jade shamans (which are one of the best decks around).

The new 4/4 plus two dogs is... Well, it's the new Veklor. Pile of stats that is good against aggro, autoinclude in Elemental decks. Pretty good.
Probably weaker than Veklor because that one was 12 health worth of taunt, but the condition is easier to proc.

Overall the elemental mechanic sounds... OK. I mean it's not overwhelmingly creative or anything, but at least it kinda forces you to put some thought in it.

Last thought: I think Ungoro must have been hell in the design phase.
A bunch of design ideas (quest, adapt, elemental, "Enchantment type") competing for space: none good enough to carry the expansion on its own, all kind of meh.
In the end they just threw them all in and hope something works out

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Sorely tempted to turn my Golden Yogg Saron into N'zoth, which is actually useful for some decks I'm interested in (both Standard and Wild). But the new expansion's coming up soon and I might need that 1600 dust.

[Seerow]

I'm honestly tempted to dust a bunch of 'meh' cards to get a Golden version of the hall of famers. At the very least Syl and Rag, since they're legendaries so their golden versions get DEd for half value instead of quarter. I mean just crafting a golden Rag would mean instead of getting 1600 dust from having my normal rag, I'd get 3200 for having golden rag, then 1600 for DEing golden rag. 4800 dust total, for a 3200 dust investment.

At the very least I'll probably do one, I'm around 2400 dust now so dusting two crap legendaries to get two legendaries I want later is a good deal. Dusting 12,800 worth of stuff to get 3200 dust for the second is a much harder pill to swallow.

[Fable Wright]

I'm honestly tempted to dust a bunch of 'meh' cards to get a Golden version of the hall of famers. At the very least Syl and Rag, since they're legendaries so their golden versions get DEd for half value instead of quarter. I mean just crafting a golden Rag would mean instead of getting 1600 dust from having my normal rag, I'd get 3200 for having golden rag, then 1600 for DEing golden rag. 4800 dust total, for a 3200 dust investment.

At the very least I'll probably do one, I'm around 2400 dust now so dusting two crap legendaries to get two legendaries I want later is a good deal. Dusting 12,800 worth of stuff to get 3200 dust for the second is a much harder pill to swallow.

I was considering disenchanting bad legendaries for this, but decided that it'd be better to wait for expansion. Rend Blackhand and Majordomo Executus are rotating when Un'Goro rolls in, and getting four times the dust for DEing them than normal seems way too good to pass up.

Also, crafting a golden Ragnaros when you have a regular Ragnaros seems like a dust sink rather than a way to grab more. You only get dust for your one most valuable Ragnaros, so you're paying 3200 dust to increase the payout by 1600 dust, and then get 1600 dust from disenchanting. Which... doesn't seem worthwhile in the least.

[Seerow]

I was considering disenchanting bad legendaries for this, but decided that it'd be better to wait for expansion. Rend Blackhand and Majordomo Executus are rotating when Un'Goro rolls in, and getting four times the dust for DEing them than normal seems way too good to pass up.

Also, crafting a golden Ragnaros when you have a regular Ragnaros seems like a dust sink rather than a way to grab more. You only get dust for your one most valuable Ragnaros, so you're paying 3200 dust to increase the payout by 1600 dust, and then get 1600 dust from disenchanting. Which... doesn't seem worthwhile in the least.

Thinking about it more, it seems like it would ultimately break even. I wasn't considering the reward I would already be getting. I was thinking "I have 2400 dust, DE two legendaries and during rotation get 4800 dust back to craft with".

In practice without doing anything I'll have my 2400 dust, get my 1600, be up to 4000, and then the only difference is the 800 from disenchanting. So yeah, not really a waste, but kind of a wash. Oh well.

[Joran]

I'm honestly tempted to dust a bunch of 'meh' cards to get a Golden version of the hall of famers. At the very least Syl and Rag, since they're legendaries so their golden versions get DEd for half value instead of quarter. I mean just crafting a golden Rag would mean instead of getting 1600 dust from having my normal rag, I'd get 3200 for having golden rag, then 1600 for DEing golden rag. 4800 dust total, for a 3200 dust investment.

At the very least I'll probably do one, I'm around 2400 dust now so dusting two crap legendaries to get two legendaries I want later is a good deal. Dusting 12,800 worth of stuff to get 3200 dust for the second is a much harder pill to swallow.

If you already have Ragnaros, it isn't worth it to craft a golden Ragnaros.

Situation 1: You have Ragnaros, you gain 1600 dust.

Situation 2: You craft Golden Ragnaros for 3200 dust (-3200 dust).
You get 3200 dust for Golden Ragnaros (net neutral)
You dust Golden Ragnaros, you gain 1600 dust.

It ends up being the same, if my calculations are right.

The only one where you turn a profit if you already own existing normal copies is Golden Commons and that's only a 10 dust profit.

[Fable Wright]

Thinking about it more, it seems like it would ultimately break even. I wasn't considering the reward I would already be getting. I was thinking "I have 2400 dust, DE two legendaries and during rotation get 4800 dust back to craft with".

In practice without doing anything I'll have my 2400 dust, get my 1600, be up to 4000, and then the only difference is the 800 from disenchanting. So yeah, not really a waste, but kind of a wash. Oh well.

I'd call it a waste because you're disenchanting your legendaries before their marked-up rotation value. Right now, I could disenchant Darkfisher Nat Pagle and my Boogeymonster for some golden common versions of Hall of Famers. Or I could wait to next year, get 3200 dust for losing them then, and effectively get 2400 extra dust for my patience, letting me invest in the new set's archetype-defining legendaries without burning too much of my stockpile.

[Joran]

I'd call it a waste because you're disenchanting your legendaries before their marked-up rotation value. Right now, I could disenchant Darkfisher Nat Pagle and my Boogeymonster for some golden common versions of Hall of Famers. Or I could wait to next year, get 3200 dust for losing them then, and effectively get 2400 extra dust for my patience, letting me invest in the new set's archetype-defining legendaries without burning too much of my stockpile.

You won't get 1600 dust for losing them. It's only Classic cards rotating that gets the Hall of Fame dust bonus; if a card is rotating from Standard to Wild because of a new year, then you don't get any dust value.

For instance, my Dr. Boom didn't net me 1600 dust.

[Fable Wright]

You won't get 1600 dust for losing them. It's only Classic cards rotating that gets the Hall of Fame dust bonus; if a card is rotating from Standard to Wild because of a new year, then you don't get any dust value.

For instance, my Dr. Boom didn't net me 1600 dust.

I realize that I don't get any free dust for non-Hall of Fame cards. I was under the impression, though, that for a period of a few grace days after rotation, cards in sets just removed from Standard could be disenchanted for their full value instead of the usual rates. I could well be completely mistaken, though; can anyone in the thread confirm or deny how things work?

[Rodin]

I remembered something about getting extra dust from the last rotation, but on looking it up it turned out to be from dusting Adventure cards that were previously undustable.

I'm probably going to dust Rend Blackhand, Chromaggus, and Majordomo. Need to keep the others in case of Wild Tavern Brawl or something similar. There's much less from League because the legendaries were such high quality, but I think Elise can probably be ditched along with Rafaam. Maybe Finley? Keeping Brann and Reno for Wild seems like common sense.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The latest live action skit is up on YouTube. It's about as good as the first one. And we get to see...the health, attack, and cost of the Paladin Quest reward. Yes. I wish I was joking. Seems like they're going to reveal that one card bit by bit over the course of the series, while at the same time revealing multiple other cards in the space of a day. What is this even.

[Mando Knight]

The latest live action skit is up on YouTube. It's about as good as the first one. And we get to see...the health, attack, and cost of the Paladin Quest reward. Yes. I wish I was joking. Seems like they're going to reveal that one card bit by bit over the course of the series, while at the same time revealing multiple other cards in the space of a day. What is this even.

Specifically, Galvadon is a 5/5 (we've known it was a 5 mana beast since last week's skit). If you want to watch Danny Pudi drink murloc floor polish, the video is here.

Eddy's journal continues here and details more murloc cards:

Spoiler: Neutral

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Primalfin Lookout

3 mana 3/2 neutral common Murloc

Battlecry: If you control a murloc, Discover a Murloc.

Spoiler: Shaman Quest

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Unite the Murlocs

Quest: Summon 10 Murlocs.

Reward: Megafin.

Megafin

5 mana 8/8 Shaman Legendary Murloc

Battlecry: Fill your hand with random Murlocs.

[Gandariel]

Quick glance at the shaman quest:
1)happy it's not something they can just plug in current decks

2) 10 summoned = maybe 8-9 cards, plus you are down a card since you run the quest.

Considering the deck won't have 29 murlocs you'd only be able to play this on turn ... 8?9?
Finja sure helps, but you don't draw her every game.

The effect is fairly strong, but you're still missing your 1-drop...

My guess is that Murloc Shaman won't be a deck, but not because of the quest. Just because the murlocs are overall not strong enough to play a deck with 20 of them

[BRC]

Quick glance at the shaman quest:
1)happy it's not something they can just plug in current decks

2) 10 summoned = maybe 8-9 cards, plus you are down a card since you run the quest.

Considering the deck won't have 29 murlocs you'd only be able to play this on turn ... 8?9?
Finja sure helps, but you don't draw her every game.

The effect is fairly strong, but you're still missing your 1-drop...

My guess is that Murloc Shaman won't be a deck, but not because of the quest. Just because the murlocs are overall not strong enough to play a deck with 20 of them

Running Send in the Finishers, plus the new Murloc, can go a long way towards completing this quest.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Specifically, Galvadon is a 5/5 (we've known it was a 5 mana beast since last week's skit). If you want to watch Danny Pudi drink murloc floor polish, the video is here.

Eddy's journal continues here and details more murloc cards:

Spoiler: Neutral

Show

Primalfin Lookout

3 mana 3/2 neutral common Murloc

Battlecry: If you control a murloc, Discover a Murloc.

Spoiler: Shaman Quest

Show

Unite the Murlocs

Quest: Summon 10 Murlocs.

Reward: Megafin.

Megafin

5 mana 8/8 Shaman Legendary Murloc

Battlecry: Fill your hand with random Murlocs.

Oops. But the point still stands regarding it being revealed in pieces. Thanks for the links.

So...Shaman Murlocs. I'm not sure what to feel about this. It's not without precedent, but I was expecting something Elemental-related. With previous reveals it seems like Elementals are a more neutral concept, which is fine.

Megafin looks cool. Non-draw hand refill is a thing. Even if it's all murlocs and you needed to summon 10 murlocs to get there so your reward for playing murlocs is more murlocs. Not sure if Finja works with this. The Finja package is pretty tight and has anti-synergy if you pull Battlecry murlocs.

Regardless I'll probably try this quest out simply because it's there. Not so sure 'bout competitive viability.

And of course we get quest synergy. Two murlocs from one card, sure let's go with that.

[Joran]

I realize that I don't get any free dust for non-Hall of Fame cards. I was under the impression, though, that for a period of a few grace days after rotation, cards in sets just removed from Standard could be disenchanted for their full value instead of the usual rates. I could well be completely mistaken, though; can anyone in the thread confirm or deny how things work?

No, this was a request from some people on Reddit, but was never implemented. There was a balance change around the rotation last time, so things like Ancient of Lores were dustable for the full value, but not things like Dr. Boom.

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/g...chedule-guide/