R.A Salvatore books, Companions of the hall

[Thurulian]

So has anyone read any of these books and if so what did you think of them? I have read everything up until the Neverwinter trilogy and i think the whole series is fantastic. who is your favorite characters?
lets get this discussion going!

[Cikomyr]

So has anyone read any of these books and if so what did you think of them? I have read everything up until the Neverwinter trilogy and i think the whole series is fantastic. who is your favorite characters?
lets get this discussion going!

Drizzt off course xD

Ok, Bruenor. But thats because i love dwarves

Edit: sorry. i should have remembered the 800 pound Panther

[Cheesegear]

The Dark Elf Trilogy; Solid. Introduces a bunch of cool characters (e.g; Gromph) who are way better than the main character. That's bad.
The Icewind Dale Trilogy; Yep. The books that started it all. Everything's...Fine.
*The Cleric Quintet; R.A. Salvatore knocks it out of the park. It's amazing what Salvatore is able to write when he's not shackled to Drizzt. This is his best series by far.
Legacy of the Drow; Probably the worst series. Drizzt gets a Unicorn - because of course he does. This series falls apart because, once again, the story focuses on Drizzt. Who is a terrible character.
Paths of Darkness; Wulfgar's back! In Pog form! But seriously, the gang is back, and Drizzt gets some desperately needed character development.
*The Sellswords; Yay, another series that doesn't feature Drizzt. Entreri and Jarlaxle. They fight crime.
The Hunter's Blades; Obould Many-Arrows is Salvatore's best antagonist, by far (Entreri is a very close second). He doesn't get nearly the screen-time he deserves, and Drizzt forgets about him the instant he kills him. Despite the fact that Obould and Drizzt are philosophically the same...Drizzt doesn't care. Because Obould is an Orc, and therefore doesn't get to be in the Sun. Salvatore himself points out the irony. But the audience doesn't care, because Drizzt wins, and Drizzt is the best.
Transitions; The only book that matters is the last one.
Stone of Tymora; Author self-insert fanfic written by Salvatore's son. It's awful and bad. And awful.

Spoiler: Neverwinter onwards

Show

Neverwinter Saga; Yay. A new crew. Salvatore gets to write new characters. But the end of Charon's Claw, there's no-one left. I wonder how Salvatore will move forwards from here.
The Companions; *headdesk* God. Damn it. So close. But you couldn't do it, could you?

[Cikomyr]

I have to agree that everything related to Gromph is awesome. Besides the first 2 books; his parts are the only real enjoyable things of War of the Spider Queen.

I dont mind Drizzt as much as you do. He is the prototypical angster, but.. thats kind of because him and Spiderman basically created the genre. Its hardly surprising that the cliche-creator turns out cliché in retrospective. I wished him and Alustriel had had more screentime together, and that he never developped a romantic relationship with Cattie-Brie.

[Thurulian]

Gwen is one of my favorite characters too but i think i like Jarlaxle Baenre the best he is just so flashy and comedic and i love those sorts of characters, The Sellswords trilogy was amazing him and artimis entreris adventures together.

[Traab]

I read the first 4-5 series of drizzt and gave up. Just too burned out by the "Oh my god hes dead, NOPE!" garbage. I do agree that cleric quintet was an amazing series. I actually read that long before I found drizzt so when I saw him bump into cadderly at some point, I was super hyped.

[Thurulian]

My little sister is named after Cadderly's wife, Danica. I like the series alot, it is one of bobs' best works by far besides the Sellswords trilogy which i love dearly.

[Velaryon]

I like the ones I've read okay, except the one where Wulfgar is the main character. The Silent Blade, maybe? That one was excruciatingly dull.

As I recall, Salvatore initially set out to write a series of novels in which Wulfgar was the main character, until he created Drizzt as a side character and realized he was a more compelling protagonist. Based on the one book in which Wulfar WAS the main character, I'd say he was right to focus on Drizzt instead.

Anyway, I stopped right around The Thousand Orcs or so once I realized that none of the characters were ever truly in danger because WotC wouldn't let him kill off any of the Companions. That drained all the tension out of the series for me.

I did like Jarlaxle a lot, and the books where he and Entreri team up were pretty cool.

[An Enemy Spy]

I read some of them when I was teenager. I enjoyed them, even if I got a bit annoyed with how the heroes could slaughter their way through minions without ever seeming to be truly threatened. Not sure if I'd still like them now.

[warty goblin]

Me and a friend were rather into them when we were in the 14 - 16 or 18 year old range. Used to have very long wooden sword fights where we'd take on characters from the book. He was always Drizz't, because he was much better dual wielding than I've ever been, so I was Entreri, but I never bothered with the offhand dagger. Since our wooden weapons didn't have a lot in the way of had protection, parrying daggers were generally just asking for flattened knuckles. Naturally, winter was the best time for this, because heavy coats made getting hit hurt a lot less.

(If this sounds like the books were only an excuse to hit each other with sticks, you're right. We spent most of our time hitting each other with sticks.)

[Morty]

The Icewind Dale trilogy is an unambitious, but pleasant pulp fantasy trilogy. It's kind of weird to see Drizzt and have to remember that he wasn't such a big cliche back then yet - in those books, he was actually a big new thing. The worst part was probably heaping doses of D&D morality.

Said morality gets worse in the next book, which begins with a gratuitous slaughter of goblins that has no real purpose except to show they're dumb, smelly and deserve to be killed by the dozens at the cost of like four dwarves. Then Wulfgar suddenly turns into a sexist, for some reason, and entirely too many drow appear... which is to say, more than one.

So I stopped reading at that point, but I'm still somewhat fond of the Icewind Dale books. They're not bad if one likes adventure and lengthy depictions of sword-fights. Entreri is a good foil for Drizzt, both in terms of personality and fighting style. Even if Salvatore treats dual-wielding with a sabre and dagger as similar to dual-wielding two scimitars. I had trouble picturing that.

[Cikomyr]

Said morality gets worse in the next book, which begins with a gratuitous slaughter of goblins that has no real purpose except to show they're dumb, smelly and deserve to be killed by the dozens at the cost of like four dwarves.

There is a de-facto state of permanent war between goblins and Dwarves. But even then, dont they actually give diplomacy a chance under the pressure of Cattie-Brie? And the Goblins rebuff these advances?

Then Wulfgar suddenly turns into a sexist, for some reason, and entirely too many drow appear... which is to say, more than one.

You learn about 2/3rd through the book that he has been under hypnotic influence by Regis, which caused him to have these stupid attitudes..

[Cheesegear]

I like the ones I've read okay, except the one where Wulfgar is the main character. The Silent Blade, maybe? That one was excruciatingly dull.

I guess for me, the book(s) where Wulfgar is the main character, is simply refreshing because of how he isn't Drizzt. If you're reading The Legend of Drizzt concurrently, by the time you hit Wulfgar's story, you've been reading about Drizzt for 9 or 10 books...Hopefully you stopped to read about Cadderly and friends somewhere in the middle, but, maybe you didn't, 'cause Cadderly and Co. aren't mother****ing DRIZZT WITH THE TWO SWORDS AND THE ANGST. URGH. YEAH.

As I recall, Salvatore initially set out to write a series of novels in which Wulfgar was the main character, until he created Drizzt as a side character and realized he was a more compelling protagonist.

Drizzt is compelling for...A while. Certainly, in Icewind Dale and Dark Elf, he's very good. After that...His PoV prose at the start of every Chapter starts to all sound the same.

Anyway, I stopped right around The Thousand Orcs

Ooh. As I said, I actually think Hunter's Blades is the strongest Drizzt series (Cleric and Sellswords aren't about Drizzt), almost based purely on the strength of the antagonist and the addition of more Dwarves (including the ones from Cleric) to the story. Considering almost all of the stories take place in and around Mithral Hall, it's about time Salvatore got around to...y'know...Actually including Dwarves in his stories.

or so once I realized that none of the characters were ever truly in danger because WotC wouldn't let him kill off any of the Companions.

Spoiler: Transitions onwards

Show

He did kill them off.
...They got better.
Except Wulfgar.

[Olinser]

I was a very avid Salvatore fan for quite a while, but the later books just became really formulaic and as somebody already said, all tension is removed when from a Doylist perspective you realize that Drizzt is never, EVER going to be killed off.

I really stopped reading around the resurrection saga. None of the new characters from the Neverwinter books were particularly compelling, despite Salvatore's attempt to have OMG EVIL CHARACTERS LUL, several characters from previous books were suddenly retconned in their attitudes and actions in the most ludicrous and ham-handed ways possible, and Dahlia was just a stupid character that he tried to write as conflicted but came off as being a bipolar schizophrenic with zero redeeming qualities. Then the whole resurrection thing read like a gaming group munchkining their old characters with OP abilities for a new campaign and that was about when I tapped out of the whole series.

And from what I understand I didn't miss much with the whole 'Drizzt kills Demogorgon LUL'.

Don't get me wrong the Dark Elf trilogy with Drizzt's backstory is still one of the best trilogies of books I've ever read, its just as more and more books came out it just stagnated.

[Traab]

I was a very avid Salvatore fan for quite a while, but the later books just became really formulaic and as somebody already said, all tension is removed when from a Doylist perspective you realize that Drizzt is never, EVER going to be killed off.

I really stopped reading around the resurrection saga. None of the new characters from the Neverwinter books were particularly compelling, despite Salvatore's attempt to have OMG EVIL CHARACTERS LUL, several characters from previous books were suddenly retconned in their attitudes and actions in the most ludicrous and ham-handed ways possible, and Dahlia was just a stupid character that he tried to write as conflicted but came off as being a bipolar schizophrenic with zero redeeming qualities. Then the whole resurrection thing read like a gaming group munchkining their old characters with OP abilities for a new campaign and that was about when I tapped out of the whole series.

And from what I understand I didn't miss much with the whole 'Drizzt kills Demogorgon LUL'.

Don't get me wrong the Dark Elf trilogy with Drizzt's backstory is still one of the best trilogies of books I've ever read, its just as more and more books came out it just stagnated.

I think the problem is harry potter related. Bear with me now, it will make sense. Basically, as rowling wrote the stories, the books started changing. They went from childrens adventure book where there doesnt have to be a ton of logic involved (Lets lock the item the evilest wizard that ever cackled wants in a school full of children, including his most hated nemesis! Then protect it with challenges oddly specifically tailored to our protagonist and his friends.) And as each story came out, events got more adult and darker even while the good guys tended to come out ahead in the end. This alteration of the style of the story being told helped it remain interesting from book 1-7 to the same audience that was growing up as the books came out. The drizzt stories dont really do that. They are basically the same pattern told over and over again. So even if taken as a unique occurrence, each book isnt bad, taken as a steady stream its like reading redwall abbey. Combined with readers aging out of the series as time marches on and you have people quitting halfway through, burned out by same old same old, or annoyed by the young adult level of the story that never really changes.

[Cikomyr]

I think the problem is harry potter related. Bear with me now, it will make sense. Basically, as rowling wrote the stories, the books started changing. They went from childrens adventure book where there doesnt have to be a ton of logic involved (Lets lock the item the evilest wizard that ever cackled wants in a school full of children, including his most hated nemesis! Then protect it with challenges oddly specifically tailored to our protagonist and his friends.) And as each story came out, events got more adult and darker even while the good guys tended to come out ahead in the end. This alteration of the style of the story being told helped it remain interesting from book 1-7 to the same audience that was growing up as the books came out. The drizzt stories dont really do that. They are basically the same pattern told over and over again. So even if taken as a unique occurrence, each book isnt bad, taken as a steady stream its like reading redwall abbey. Combined with readers aging out of the series as time marches on and you have people quitting halfway through, burned out by same old same old, or annoyed by the young adult level of the story that never really changes.

So..Cerebus Syndrome, just from a different origin point? It starts lighthearted and a bit mindless fun, and then over the course of the books the story starts to take itself too seriously and becomes super involved and intricated, so much that its becoming a bit overbloated?

Basically just like Honor Harrington serie. Its mindless space naval stuff at first, then becomes a struggle against the Genetically Engineered Illuminatis

[Traab]

So..Cerebus Syndrome, just from a different origin point? It starts lighthearted and a bit mindless fun, and then over the course of the books the story starts to take itself too seriously and becomes super involved and intricated, so much that its becoming a bit overbloated?

Basically just like Honor Harrington serie. Its mindless space naval stuff at first, then becomes a struggle against the Genetically Engineered Illuminatis

More like the belgariad... if there were six more series where garion has to put together a party, go find the macguffin, and kill a different god this time. (instead of only two series with that) As someone has already said, they are very formulaic. The formula is generally a good one, but after the 26th time you go through it... it starts to wear on your nerves. Meanwhile a series like harry potter doesnt really have that defined formula. A bit is there, but the stakes keep rising, it stops being a total victory every round, and by the last book, the setting becomes very different as hogwarts is no longer the central plot area. So it keeps enough of its identity to remain familiar, without being a cookie cutter copy of the last book.

[Cheesegear]

Meanwhile a series like harry potter doesnt really have that defined formula.

Is the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher the bad guy? Again?

[Traab]

Is the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher the bad guy? Again?

Hmph, he was an idiot second year, a friend third year, aaaand, yeah i got nothing other than that. Still, at least a third of the dada teachers we interact with didnt want to kill him! Yeah I know, lockheart tried to mind wipe and abandon them and remus went all fuzzy on them, but at least that wasnt why they were there! THAT COUNTS DANGIT!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is the Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher the bad guy? Again?

Two out of seven is not a pattern, it is a coincidence.

GW

[hamishspence]

Year 1 - The Bad Guy
Year 2 - A Bad Guy but not The Bad Guy
Year 3 - Good Guy
Year 4 - The Bad Guy's Henchman
Year 5 - A Bad Guy but not The Bad Guy
Year 6 - A Secretly Repentant Bad Guy
Year 7 - A Minor Henchman of The Bad Guy

[Knaight]

II dont mind Drizzt as much as you do. He is the prototypical angster, but.. thats kind of because him and Spiderman basically created the genre. Its hardly surprising that the cliche-creator turns out cliché in retrospective.

A decent chunk of Arthurian Knights, Achilles, Hamlet, and a whole host of other, much older characters pretty directly contradict this. Drizzt was never particularly new to fiction, just to D&D fiction.

As for the books, I read them back when I was 12-13 or so, and hurting for options in my junior high library. Even then I didn't think they were very good, but they were fun enough and I'd already burned through the rest of the fantasy shelf that I had any hope for.

[Cikomyr]

A decent chunk of Arthurian Knights, Achilles, Hamlet, and a whole host of other, much older characters pretty directly contradict this. Drizzt was never particularly new to fiction, just to D&D fiction.

Oh yhea. Youth these days read so much Shakespeare, Homer and Arthurian Legends

[Cheesegear]

I think a big, personal problem that I had, was that early on, when I was reading The Legend of Drizzt, I was also reading Dragonlance and Riftwar. Which are fairly tough acts to follow.

[Darth Ultron]

Well, I like the first dozen books or so. They are some nice classic D&D adventures: dwarves and drow, giants and barbarians, goblins and gnomes, wizards and magic.

Right up too about the weird ''lets live in peace with the orcs'', and the utterly silly 4E is super awesome stuff.

[hamishspence]

I liked the idea of orcs wanting to elevate themselves beyond being "adventurer XP fodder" - resonates very well with OOTS - Redcloak wanted the same, for goblins.

The point where I lost interest was shortly after that.

[Cikomyr]

I liked the idea of orcs wanting to elevate themselves beyond being "adventurer XP fodder" - resonates very well with OOTS - Redcloak wanted the same, for goblins.

The point where I lost interest was shortly after that.

The orcs were actually the thing that i liked the most during the Hunter's Blade trilogy. Agreed.

[zimmerwald1915]

Oh yhea. Youth these days read so much Shakespeare, Homer and Arthurian Legends

Damn kids.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Year 1 - The Bad Guy
Year 2 - A Bad Guy but not The Bad Guy
Year 3 - Good Guy
Year 4 - The Bad Guy's Henchman
Year 5 - A Bad Guy but not The Bad Guy
Year 6 - A Secretly Repentant Bad Guy
Year 7 - A Minor Henchman of The Bad Guy

Fair. But being a YA novel, most adults are supposed to be "bad guys" because it they weren't, the characters would not have to take matters into their own hands. If "being an antagonist" is enough to land you on the list, then "potions teacher is a bad guy" gets as many hits as "DADA teacher". And I'd give 50/50 on "transfiguration teacher" also being an antagonist on any given book.

GW

[hamishspence]

Fair. But being a YA novel, most adults are supposed to be "bad guys" because it they weren't, the characters would not have to take matters into their own hands.

Every instance of "bad guy" on the above list involves very nasty things being done or attempted.

Not just "taking points from Harry's house" - killing, torture, or memory erasure.