Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[Wraith]

Out of curiosities sake, how do the Skaven handle?

Fast and fragile.

Skaven teams have what it probably the highest average MA (Movement) of any team, and they also have access to players called Gutter Runners who have MA9 - the single highest in the game. They can run rings around other teams and score even faster than the traditionally hyper-competent elves; all they need is a small opening and they're uncatchable.

Unfortunately, they have only 3 players with an AV (armour) higher than 7 and their fast Gutter Runners are ST (strength) 2 meaning that it's relatively easy to hit them so that it hurts. It's very easy to make a mistake, or for the dice to betray you once, and for you to then lose a bunch of players very quickly.

The aim of the Skaven team is to use the linemen as fodder - they stand in the way and get beaten up in order to protect the Gutter Runners while they get into position to steal the ball and score, while the Stormvermin are your "assassins" who pick up skills like Mighty Blow, Claw and Pile On in order to take out your opponents' key players.

They're a good team with plenty of options in how you build them, but many people are put off because they're not so great at the bashing side of the game except for some surgical strikes. Similarly, some people can be very precious about their little plastic toys and don't like to see them get "hurt" - There is no room in the Skaven locker room for such bleeding-heart cowards.

[Blackhawk748]

That will be the theme for the next 12 months, as we get drip fed several campaign books every other month. Is GW gonna tell us the release order and who's last? Hell no.
...But wont you be excited when it's your turn?
Get your audience hyped to wait. Great marketing strategy.

I don't think GW knows what 'burnout' is. Cuz that's what they're inflicting on us.

[LeSwordfish]

I don't think GW knows what 'burnout' is. Cuz that's what they're inflicting on us.

oh, calm down, nobody's making you buy anything.

[Lord Torath]

I've been painting some Thousand Sons Rubric marines for a friend, and thought I'd share the pictures with you guys: Thousand Sons.

This is just after I gloss-varnished them, so I haven't "matted" the bases yet in the photos.

I'm also working on painting the bikes and attack bike he got me for Christmas last year. No photos yet.

[xroads]

Fast and fragile.

Skaven teams have what it probably the highest average MA (Movement) of any team, and they also have access to players called Gutter Runners who have MA9 - the single highest in the game. They can run rings around other teams and score even faster than the traditionally hyper-competent elves; all they need is a small opening and they're uncatchable.

Unfortunately, they have only 3 players with an AV (armour) higher than 7 and their fast Gutter Runners are ST (strength) 2 meaning that it's relatively easy to hit them so that it hurts. It's very easy to make a mistake, or for the dice to betray you once, and for you to then lose a bunch of players very quickly.

The aim of the Skaven team is to use the linemen as fodder - they stand in the way and get beaten up in order to protect the Gutter Runners while they get into position to steal the ball and score, while the Stormvermin are your "assassins" who pick up skills like Mighty Blow, Claw and Pile On in order to take out your opponents' key players.

They're a good team with plenty of options in how you build them, but many people are put off because they're not so great at the bashing side of the game except for some surgical strikes. Similarly, some people can be very precious about their little plastic toys and don't like to see them get "hurt" - There is no room in the Skaven locker room for such bleeding-heart cowards.

Thanks. Back in the late 80's/early 90's my friends and I almost started a Blood Bowl league. Skaven was going to be the team I chose. So I've always been curios how they handled.

[Wraith]

I've been painting some Thousand Sons Rubric marines for a friend, and thought I'd share the pictures with you guys: Thousand Sons.

Nice. You're a far braver man than I, painting that shade of bright yellow so close to blue. I took the coward's way out and chose to do them red and gold, like the Heresy colours, and if anyone asks it's "a warband thing".

[Forum Explorer]

I don't think GW knows what 'burnout' is. Cuz that's what they're inflicting on us.

Eh. I agree that GW is being dumb from a business perspective, but I don't actually care. It'll come out when it comes out, and actually putting any emotion into any prerelease stuff isn't worth it.

[Meatgrinder]

in other news LGT results!

Sweet! Let's take a look through these...

Spoiler: 8: Adeptus Astartes (Salamanders)

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Space Marine Battalion +5 CP (Salmanders) [833]
HQ1 – Captain with Jump Pack (93), Thunder Hammer (40), Storm Shield (10) [143]
HQ2 – Chaplain with Jump Pack (90), Crozius (0), Bolt Pistol, WARLORD (Anvil of Strength), Litany – Canticle of Hate, RELIC (Benediction of Fury) [90]
Troop 1 – 5 Scouts (55), Bolters (0) [55]
Troop 2 – 5 Scouts (55) 5 Sniper Rifles (10) [65]
Troop 3 – 5 Intercessors (85), Stalker Bolt Rifles (0), Thunder Hammer (16) [101]
Elite 1 – 10 Terminators (230), 6 Chainfists (66), 3 Power fists (27) Power Sword (4) Cyclone Missile Launcher (32) [379]


Space Marine Spearhead +1 CP (Salamanders) [1,163]
HQ3 – Lieutenant w Jump Pack (78) Chainsword (0), Bolt Pistol (0), Master Craft Bolter (3) [81]
HS1 – Thunderfire Cannon [92]
HS2 – Repulsor Executioner (284), Heavy Laser Destroyer (40), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) [330]
HS3 – Repulsor Executioner (284), Heavy Laser Destroyer (40), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) [330]
HS4 – Repulsor Executioner (284), Heavy Laser Destroyer (40), Icarus Rocket Pod (6) [330]

9cp

...what sort of dark sorcery is this?! A master-crafted bolter? Terminators with power fists? An intercessor sergeant with a thunder hammer??????

Spoiler: 6:Asuryani

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Factions Used: Asuryani
Command Points: 13
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
== Battalion Detachment == <Ulthwe> Vigilis Defiant <Windrider Host> [69pl, 1369pts] (5-1) +4CP
HQ1: Autarch Skyrunner [6pl, 127pts]: twin shuriken catapults, laser lance,
[INDEX OPTIONS: banshee mask, reaper launcher], [WARLORD TRAIT: Ambush of Blades]
HQ2: Eldrad Ulthran [8pl, 135pts]
[POWERS: smite, fortune, guide, doom]
HQ3: 10 Warlock Skyrunner Conclave [31pl, 670pts]: 10 singing spears
[POWERS: smite, enhance/drain, protect/jinx]

TR1: 5 Rangers [3pl, 60pts]
TR2: 8 Storm Guardians [3pl, 48pts]
TR3: 20 Guardian Defenders w. 2 Shuirken cannon Platforms [9pl, 190pts]
DT1: Waveserpent [9pl, 139pnts]: twin scatter lasers, twin shuriken catapults, crystal targeting matrix

== Battalion Detachment == <Ulthwe> [14pl, 300pts] +5CP
HQ5: Warlock [2pl, 55pts]: [POWERS: smite, quicken/restrain]
HQ6: Spiritseer [3pl, 65pts]: [POWERS: smite, conceal/reveal]
TR4: 5 Rangers [3pl, 60pts]
TR5: 5 Rangers [3pl, 60pts]
TR6: 5 Rangers [3pl, 60pts]

== Spearhead Detachment == <Biel-Tan> [23pl, 328pts] +1CP
HQ4: Warlock Skyrunner <Biel Tan> [4pl, 67pnts]: twin shuriken catapult
[POWERS: smite, protect/jinx], [RELIC: The Spirit Stones of Anath’Lan]
HS1: Nightspinner [8pl, 112pnts]: twin shuriken catapults
HS2: Nightspinner [8pl, 112pnts]: twin shuriken catapults
HS3: Support Weapon Platform [3pl, 37pnts]: Shadow Weaver

Good to see that Craftworld eldar have tricks beyond flyer-spam. I like this style of list; I've always wanted to run Eldar vehicles.

Spoiler: 5:Adeptus Astartes

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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 624pts, 7CP] ++


+ No Force Org Slot +


**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists, Imperial Fists Successor

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


Battle-forged CP [3CP]

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


Detachment CP [5CP]

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Indomitus Crusaders

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


+ HQ +


Captain [5 PL, 74pts]: 2x Chainsword

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Captain, HQ


Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 70pts]

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Primaris, Lieutenants, HQ

. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle


+ Troops +


Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 119pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Intercessor Squad, Primaris, Troops

. 6x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant


Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 181pts]: 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Intercessor Squad, Primaris, Troops

. 9x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist


Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 180pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Intercessor Squad, Primaris, Troops

. 9x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist


++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [18 PL, 337pts, 1CP] ++


+ No Force Org Slot +


**Chapter Selection**: White Scars

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


Detachment CP [1CP]

. Categories: No Force Org Slot


+ HQ +


Chaplain [5 PL, 105pts]: - Litany of Hate, 4. Mantra of Strength, Combi-melta, Jump Pack, Warlord

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Chaplain, HQ, Fly, Jump Pack, Warlord


Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 101pts]: Camo cloak, Force sword

. Categories: Faction: Imperium, Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Infantry, Phobos, Primaris, Psyker, Librarian, HQ


Librarian on Bike [8 PL, 131pts]: Force stave, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Psyker, Librarian, Biker, HQ


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [54 PL, 1,039pts, 5CP] ++
**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists Successor, Master Artisans, Stealthy
Detachment CP [5CP]
+ HQ +

Techmarine [4 PL, 65pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Conversion beamer

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Techmarine, HQ


Techmarine [4 PL, 65pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Conversion beamer

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Techmarine, HQ


+ Troops +


Tactical Squad [4 PL, 80pts]

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops

. 3x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant

. . Boltgun/Bolt pistol

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher


Tactical Squad [4 PL, 89pts]

. Categories: Faction: Adeptus Astartes, Faction: Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops

. 3x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun


Tactical Squad [4 PL, 89pts]

• 3x Space Marine
• Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta
• Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

+ Elites +
Relic Whirlwind Scorpius [12 PL, 215pts]: Scorpius multi-launcher
Venerable Dreadnought [6 PL, 146pts]: Twin autocannon, Twin autocannon

+ Heavy Support +
Hunter [4 PL, 75pts]
Hunter [4 PL, 75pts]
Hunter [4 PL, 75pts]

+ Dedicated Transport +
Drop Pod [4 PL, 65pts]: Storm bolter

Hunters, intercessor sergeants with power fists, and tactical marines?! Everything I've been taught is a lie!

Spoiler: 4:Adeptus Astartes (white scars)

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+ REPORTED ARMY FACTION: Adeptus Astartes
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 18
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000
+ POWER LEVEL: 122
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus Astartes
+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 0
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
== Battalion Detachment == Adeptus Astartes, White Scars [25PL, 399pts] +5CP
HQ: Lieutenant with Jump Pack (78) Power Fist (9) Chainsword (0) [6PL, 87pts]
HQ: Librarian with Jump Pack (108) Force Sword (8) Boltgun (0) [6PL, 116pts] ++Psyker (Storm Wreathed, Ride the Winds)
TR: Scout Squad (55) 4x Combat Knife (0) Shotgun - Sergeant (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) - [4PL, 55pts]
TR: Scout Squad (55) 4x Combat Knife (0) Shotgun - Sergeant (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) - [4PL, 55pts]
TR: Intercessor Squad (85) 5x Stalker Bolt Rifles (0) Auxiliary Grenade Launcher - Sergeant (1) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) [5PL, 86pts]

== Battalion Detachment == Adeptus Astartes, White Scars [37PL, 666pts] +5CP
HQ: Chaplain with Jump Pack (90) Boltgun (0) [5PL, 90pts] ++Litany of Battle (Canticle of Hate)
HQ: Captain in Phobos Armour (90) Camo Cloak (3) Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt Carbine (6) [5PL, 99pts]
TR: Intercessor Squad (85) 5x Bolt Rifles (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) [5PL, 85pts]
TR: Intercessor Squad (85) 5x Bolt Rifles (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) [5PL, 85pts]
TR: Intercessor Squad (85) 5x Bolt Rifles (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) [5PL, 85pts]
HS: Eliminator Squad (54) 3x Camo Cloak (9) 2x Bolt Sniper Rifle (6) Instigator Bolt Carbine - Sergeant (5) [4PL, 74pts]
HS: Eliminator Squad (54) 3x Camo Cloak (9) 2x Bolt Sniper Rifle (6) Instigator Bolt Carbine - Sergeant (5) [4PL, 74pts]
HS: Eliminator Squad (54) 3x Camo Cloak (9) 2x Bolt Sniper Rifle (6) Instigator Bolt Carbine - Sergeant (5) [4PL, 74pts]

== Battalion Detachment == Adeptus Astartes, White Scars [60PL, 935pts] +5CP
HQ: Captain with Jump Pack (93) Thunder Hammer (40) Storm Shield (10) [6PL, 143pts] ++Warlord (Imperium's Sword) ++Relic (Master-Crafted Thunder Hammer)
HQ: Captain with Jump Pack (93) Thunder Hammer (40) Storm Shield (10) [6PL, 143pts]
TR: Scout Squad (55) 5x Boltgun (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) - [4PL, 55pts]
TR: Scout Squad (55) 5x Boltgun (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) - [4PL, 55pts]
TR: Scout Squad (55) 5x Boltgun (0) Chainsword - Sergeant (0) - [4PL, 55pts]
EL: Aggressor Squad (126) 6x Boltstorm Gauntlets (72) 6x Fragstorm Grenade Launcher (24) [10PL, 222pts]
HS: Thunderfire Cannon (55) Gunner (26) Plasma Cutter (5) Flamer (6) [5PL, 92pts]
HS: Whirlwind (65) Whirlwind Vengeance Launcher (20) [4PL, 85pts]
HS: Whirlwind (65) Whirlwind Vengeance Launcher (20) [4PL, 85pts]"

I think the shock is wearing off by now. The only thing that surprises me here are the Whirlwinds. I wonder why they got taken?

Spoiler: 3:Ultramarines

Show

Command Points: 11
++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Ultramarines) [18 PL, 350pts] +
+ Lord of War +
Roboute Guilliman [18 PL, 350pts] Warlord

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Ultramarines) [88 PL, 1.650pts] ++
+ HQ +
Chaplain [5 PL, 90pts]: Jump Pack, Boltgun
Librarian [5 PL, 90pts]: Force axe, Boltgun
+ Troops +
10 Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 171pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Chainsword
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: Combat Knife
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: Combat Knife
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: Combat Knife
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: Combat Knife
+ Elites +
5 Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 185pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 74pts]: Instigator Bolt Carbine
Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 74pts]: Instigator Bolt Carbine
Thunderfire Cannon [4 PL, 92pts]

+ Dedicated Transport +
Repulsor [15 PL, 325pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Auto Launchers, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon,
Icarus Rocket Pod, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Twin lascannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Repulsor [15 PL, 329pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher,
Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Storm bolter, Twin lascannon, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Good to see that Guilliman is still being taken, despite the recent nerf.

Spoiler: 2:Aeldari

Show

Total CP - 10

Battalion Detachment 5CP (Craftworlds) [49pl, 781pts]
Craftworld: Saim-hann
-HQ-
Farseer [6pl, 110pts ] Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade, Faolchu's Wing, Doom, Guide
Warlock Skyrunner [4pl, 67pts] Twin Shuriken Catapult, Witchblade, Protect/Jinx, Warlord
-Troop-
Guardian Defenders [9pl, 135pts] x15, Heavy Weapon Platform, Shuriken Cannon
Guardian Defenders [9pl, 135pts] x15, Heavy Weapon Platform, Shuriken Cannon
Guardian Defenders [9pl, 127pts] x14, Heavy Weapon Platform, Shuriken Cannon
-Fast Attack-
Windriders [12pl, 207pts] x9, Scatter Lasers

Air Wing Detachment 1CP (Craftworlds) [27pl, 483pts]
Craftworld: Alaitoc
-Flyer-
Crimson Hunter Exarch [9pl, 161pts] Pulse Laser, 2 Starcannons
Crimson Hunter Exarch [9pl, 161pts] Pulse Laser, 2 Starcannons
Crimson Hunter Exarch [9pl, 161pts] Pulse Laser, 2 Starcannons

Air Wing Detachment 1CP () [42pl, 735pts]
Kabal: Kabal of the Black Heart
-Flyer-
Razorwing Jetfighter [8pl, 135pts] 2 Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle
Razorwing Jetfighter [8pl, 135pts] 2 Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle
Razorwing Jetfighter [8pl, 135pts] 2 Disintegrator Cannons, Twin Splinter Rifle
Voidraven Bomber [9pl, 165pts] 2 Dark Scythes, Voidraven Missiles
Voidraven Bomber [9pl, 165pts] 2 Dark Scythes, Voidraven Missiles

Spoiler: 1:Aeldari

Show

== Flyer Wing, +1CP, CRAFTWORLD ELDAR - ALAITOC [621pts] ==
FL1: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), Pulse laser (0), 2 Starcannons [26] [161pts][9PL]
FL2: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), Pulse laser (0), 2 Starcannons [26] [161pts][9PL]
FL3: Crimson Hunter Exarch (135), Pulse laser (0), 2 Starcannons [26] [161pts][9PL]
FL4: Nightwing (76) with twin bright lances (40), twin shuriken cannons (17) and a Crystal Targeting Matrix (5) [138pts][8PL]


== Spearhead, +1CP, CRAFTWORLD ELDAR - ALAITOC [661pts] ==
HQ1: Farseer Skyrunner (130), twin shuriken catapult (2) [132pts][7PL]
POWERS: Smite, Doom, Guide

HQ2: Warlock Skyrunner (65), Twin Shrunken Catapults (2) [67pts][4PL]
POWERS: Protect/Jinx, Smite

HS1: Nightspinner (110) with twin shuriken catapults (2) [112pts][8PL]
HS2: Support Weapon (25), Shadow Weaver (12) [37pts][3PL]
HS3: Support Weapon (25), Shadow Weaver (12) [37pts][3PL]
FL5: Nightwing (76) with twin bright lances (40), twin shuriken cannons (17) and a Crystal Targeting Matrix (5) [138pts][8PL]
FL6: Nightwing (76) with twin bright lances (40), twin shuriken cannons (17) and a Crystal Targeting Matrix (5) [138pts][8PL]

== Spearhead, +1CP, - Kabal of The Black Heart [717pts] ==
HQ3: Archon (70) with Venom Blade (2) [72pts][4PL]
WARLORD: Labyrinthine Cunning Trait / Writ of the Living Muse Relic
HS4: Ravager (80) with three Disintegrators (45) [125pts][7PL]
HS5: Ravager (80) with three Disintegrators (45) [125pts][7PL]
HS6: Ravager (80) with three Disintegrators (45) [125pts][7PL]
FL7: Razorwing Jet Fighter (105), 2xDisintegrator cannon (30) [135pts][8PL]
FL8: Razorwing Jet Fighter (105), 2xDisintegrator cannon (30) [135pts][8PL]

CP 6

Believe it or not, I'm actually somewhat surprised by these two placing the highest. Flyer-spam hasn't been winning events recently, even though they're a completely broken build.

In summary: Cheesegear, why have you lied to me?

[druid91]

I am moderately confused at the latest Necromunda article on Warhammer community. Not because their scoring metric is bad... But because they have pictures of gangers on the Attilan jackals bikes.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-1/

[LansXero]

Sweet! Let's take a look through these...
...what sort of dark sorcery is this?! A
In summary: Cheesegear, why have you lied to me?

This is the power of the anti-meta. You may not like it, but this is how a healthy game looks: No archetype stays dominant from one event to the next, and off-meta lists have the power to break through when common tech doesnt hit them but hurts their counter instead.

[Wraith]

I am moderately confused at the latest Necromunda article on Warhammer community. Not because their scoring metric is bad... But because they have pictures of gangers on the Attilan jackals bikes.

Genestealer Cults were published in a White Dwarf article, so I'd guess that someone started with that and reverse-engineered the bikes and buggy from Codex GSC as an NPC/boss battle. Or it's just an elaborate conversion, so the buggy is actually a guy with a Heavy Weapon and they willingly take a hit on line of sight in the name of having fun.

Then again, weird things happen in Necromunda tournaments, so... who knows?

[Blackhawk748]

oh, calm down, nobody's making you buy anything.

And I'm not buying anything, because they don't tell me anything! You can't keep a hype train going for ever and doing so isn't even helpful. It will breed resentment when the thing isn't all that awesome or just annoyance for why we can't know the basic outline of the release schedule.

Like, what is actually coming out for Sisters? Are there any new units or is it just Plastic models? Is there anything coming out for Ad Mech in the next 6 months? How about Orks?

Its not hard to come out with a rough 6 month overview.

[Manticoran]

Fast and fragile.

Skaven teams have what it probably the highest average MA (Movement) of any team, and they also have access to players called Gutter Runners who have MA9 - the single highest in the game. They can run rings around other teams and score even faster than the traditionally hyper-competent elves; all they need is a small opening and they're uncatchable.

Unfortunately, they have only 3 players with an AV (armour) higher than 7 and their fast Gutter Runners are ST (strength) 2 meaning that it's relatively easy to hit them so that it hurts. It's very easy to make a mistake, or for the dice to betray you once, and for you to then lose a bunch of players very quickly.

The aim of the Skaven team is to use the linemen as fodder - they stand in the way and get beaten up in order to protect the Gutter Runners while they get into position to steal the ball and score, while the Stormvermin are your "assassins" who pick up skills like Mighty Blow, Claw and Pile On in order to take out your opponents' key players.

They're a good team with plenty of options in how you build them, but many people are put off because they're not so great at the bashing side of the game except for some surgical strikes. Similarly, some people can be very precious about their little plastic toys and don't like to see them get "hurt" - There is no room in the Skaven locker room for such bleeding-heart cowards.

I'll add a couple notes to this:

Skaven are interesting. They're a VERY strong team after the first few games(Not the best at 1000TV, but VERY VERY strong at higher experience levels) but lack some key stuff early on.

They have 3 players we care about, 1 player that's important but you only want one, and one player that you don't really want but is really cool.

Skaven linemen are 7/3/3/7, which means they're faster than normal humans but easier to get hurt. They get normal skill access, but also get double access to mutations, which makes them kind of useful in weird ways. They're also pretty cheap, which helps with them being disposable, and they're fast, which helps with them being disposable in the right place.

Skaven Gutter Runners are great! They're 9/2/4/7, which as mentioned makes them the fastest characters in the game. You also get 4! They also start with Dodge access, which makes them VERY consistent in dodging around people. They also get double access to mutations, which means that with Horns and various other things they can pretty consistently dodge through enemy tackle zones, knock balls loose from full cages, etc. They're one of the most diverse and useful units in the entire game... In the long run. In the short run they're just extremely fast elves.

Stormvermin are some of the best killers in the game. You only get two, but they're 7/3/3/8 and get normal access to Strength skills. This makes them great at murdering enemy players, and they're fast enough to run in, kill someone, and then get behind your linemen. Because linemen are there to die and be in the way of your 6 important units.

The "Important but you only get one" unit is a Skaven Thrower. If you can get +Agility on this, it's an incredibly important part of your team. Otherwise, it's the same 7/3/3/7 as a skaven lineman, but has Pass and Sure Hands, which means that it's better at innately handling the ball, letting you get your gutter runners into useful places.

Finally, the Rat Ogre... Exists. It's very expensive, and it's not consistent. If it could start with block(as it can in some formats like Clan), it would be a quite good unit just to take a lot of attention from the enemy. But without Block it's just too inconsistent due to Frenzy, with a 1/9 chance per hit(And potentially two hits per turn) to fall over and ruin your drive. Three linemen to stand in the way is often better than one Rat Ogre if you're money-limited, which you usually are at the beginning of a team, and then a leveled up team pretty much doesn't want a rookie rat ogre.

Gameplan is basically murder people on the enemy team by hitting them with Stormvermin, or knocking them out into the middle of your players so your cheap players can foul them to death. Or both!

Then just play elf-ball, where you try to steal the ball from the enemy team. You basically trade increased ability to strip the ball on your important players, and your better ability to murder enemy players, for the fact most of your units are not actually elves, only 4 of them. This is often a good trade, which is why they're one of the best teams in the game.

EDIT: One side note on this is that there's a really disruptive/not fun strategy, where if you can get a gutter runner to roll a 10 on a level up, they turn into MV10 players. Which lets them pick up Sprint, and legit be able to run from your side of the field to the end goal in one turn. Which is... A very frustrating strategy and most people don't think it's reasonable it exists in the game.

[druid91]

Genestealer Cults were published in a White Dwarf article, so I'd guess that someone started with that and reverse-engineered the bikes and buggy from Codex GSC as an NPC/boss battle. Or it's just an elaborate conversion, so the buggy is actually a guy with a Heavy Weapon and they willingly take a hit on line of sight in the name of having fun.

Then again, weird things happen in Necromunda tournaments, so... who knows?

Probably.

I was kinda hoping for a stealth reveal of minor vehicles for Necromunda. Obviously a tank is out of the question, but bikers seem right on the money.

[Drasius]

Just spitballing some ideas here, hopefully between writing something out and any feedback, I can figure out if I like it or not.

Spoiler: CP are for winners

Show

Rusty 17 Graia Battallion
30 - Techpriest
30 - Techpriest

35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers

Rusty 17 Stygies VII Battallion
30 - Techpriest
30 - Techpriest

35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers

Terryn Superheavies
468 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Ironstorm Pod
422 - Warden, Ironstorm Pod
409 - Errant, Ironstorm
364 - Gallant, Meltagun

1993

5CP each for the battallions, 6 for the Superheavy (because 3x Titanic) and 3 for battleforged is 19 CP. Almost feels like I've gone overboard until I remember how many CP are gone once you take into account 3 CP for Exalted Court, at least 1 CP for Heirlooms, 2 CP for Full Tilt, 3 CP for Glory in Honour - that's 9 gone first turn outside of generics like Death Grip or Rotate Ion Shields.
Graia for the deny strat, Stygies VII for -1 to be hit outside 12", Terryn for charging shenaigans
Feels a bit wasted to go an Imperialis house instead of a mechanicum with the AdMech goodies effectively going to waste. This might be better served by going something like Raven and regigging the Knights for a Castellan and 2 Battlecannon Crusaders for maximum memes.
Ironstorms amd meltagun are points filler.

Spoiler: Double Superheavy Detatchment

Show

Terryn Superheavies
352 - Gallant
174 - Warglaive, Meltagun
174 - Warglaive, Meltagun

[House] Superheavies
468 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Ironstorm Pod
422 - Warden, Ironstorm Pod
409 - Errant, Ironstorm

1999
None of this "allies" business to game CP generation.
Speaking of CP, 6 for the Questoris detatchment (3x Titanic), 3 for the Armiger detatchment (1x Titanic), 3 for battleforged is 12. Not terrible, but I'm imagining 3 of those are gone before the game starts due to Exalted Court to give all 3 [House] detatchment models Ion Bulwark (you can pick the same warlord trait on multiple models with Exalted court, right?).
Again, the triple Ironstorms are there to soak points (and a little for looks, not gonna lie), can easily be replaced.
The Warglaives can easily be switched for Helverins to provide more backfield, since the default Helverin is 2 points less per model.

Spoiler: I'm warming up to the Castellan a bit late

Show

Hawkshroud Superheavies
704 - Castellan
497 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Stormspear Missile Pod
406 - Warden
393 - Errant

2000

9 CP is still passable, I guess. Hawkshroud 'cause those CP are going to go fast with Oathbreaker and at least 2 CP on both Exalted Court and Heirlooms and double wound count is amazing for "free", plus their relic is incredible in specific matchups. Not enough CP to justify the Castellan really, in fact, I'm not sure you can really justify the Castellan without at least 1 battallion, probably 2. The Castellan feels more like an addition to another army where you shoehorn a castellan and 2 armigers in to cover all your anti tank needs and then worry about other things.

[9mm]

You can't keep a hype train going for ever and doing so isn't even helpful.

And to be blunt, GW doesn't try to keep a permanent hype train going. That's you doing it to yourself. GW has far too many product lines to give everyone a constant feed of new products so they do the rolling releases they do.

Like, what is actually coming out for Sisters?

Probably the current, existing army line in plastic, and maybe 1 or 2 characters or upgrade sprues. Welcome to spinning up a new production line.

Is there anything coming out for Ad Mech in the next 6 months? How about Orks?

Psychic Awakening will include new rules for ALL armies, so how long do you think Psychic Awakening will last?

Its not hard to come out with a rough 6 month overview.

Osiarch Bonereapers October
Mawtribes and Cities of Sigmar Soon(tm)
Plastic sisters within 3 months
Psychic Awakening will probably start within the next 3 months.
Marines will at this pace be completely done within the next 3 months.
2 more Warcry Warbands probably within next 3 months

your right, coming out with a rough overview isn't hard, you just need to just pay attention instead of turning your brain off the moment the info is not about your armies.

[Forum Explorer]

Just spitballing some ideas here, hopefully between writing something out and any feedback, I can figure out if I like it or not.

Spoiler: CP are for winners

Show

Rusty 17 Graia Battallion
30 - Techpriest
30 - Techpriest

35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers

Rusty 17 Stygies VII Battallion
30 - Techpriest
30 - Techpriest

35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers
35 - 5x Rangers

Terryn Superheavies
468 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Ironstorm Pod
422 - Warden, Ironstorm Pod
409 - Errant, Ironstorm
364 - Gallant, Meltagun

1993

5CP each for the battallions, 6 for the Superheavy (because 3x Titanic) and 3 for battleforged is 19 CP. Almost feels like I've gone overboard until I remember how many CP are gone once you take into account 3 CP for Exalted Court, at least 1 CP for Heirlooms, 2 CP for Full Tilt, 3 CP for Glory in Honour - that's 9 gone first turn outside of generics like Death Grip or Rotate Ion Shields.
Graia for the deny strat, Stygies VII for -1 to be hit outside 12", Terryn for charging shenaigans
Feels a bit wasted to go an Imperialis house instead of a mechanicum with the AdMech goodies effectively going to waste. This might be better served by going something like Raven and regigging the Knights for a Castellan and 2 Battlecannon Crusaders for maximum memes.
Ironstorms amd meltagun are points filler.

Spoiler: Double Superheavy Detatchment

Show

Terryn Superheavies
352 - Gallant
174 - Warglaive, Meltagun
174 - Warglaive, Meltagun

[House] Superheavies
468 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Ironstorm Pod
422 - Warden, Ironstorm Pod
409 - Errant, Ironstorm

1999
None of this "allies" business to game CP generation.
Speaking of CP, 6 for the Questoris detatchment (3x Titanic), 3 for the Armiger detatchment (1x Titanic), 3 for battleforged is 12. Not terrible, but I'm imagining 3 of those are gone before the game starts due to Exalted Court to give all 3 [House] detatchment models Ion Bulwark (you can pick the same warlord trait on multiple models with Exalted court, right?).
Again, the triple Ironstorms are there to soak points (and a little for looks, not gonna lie), can easily be replaced.
The Warglaives can easily be switched for Helverins to provide more backfield, since the default Helverin is 2 points less per model.

Spoiler: I'm warming up to the Castellan a bit late

Show

Hawkshroud Superheavies
704 - Castellan
497 - Crusader, Thermal Lance, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Stormspear Missile Pod
406 - Warden
393 - Errant

2000

9 CP is still passable, I guess. Hawkshroud 'cause those CP are going to go fast with Oathbreaker and at least 2 CP on both Exalted Court and Heirlooms and double wound count is amazing for "free", plus their relic is incredible in specific matchups. Not enough CP to justify the Castellan really, in fact, I'm not sure you can really justify the Castellan without at least 1 battallion, probably 2. The Castellan feels more like an addition to another army where you shoehorn a castellan and 2 armigers in to cover all your anti tank needs and then worry about other things.

The first one is illegal with 4 techpriests. Each Warlord trait must be different for Exalted Court. But I like the second list best.

[Avaris]

And to be blunt, GW doesn't try to keep a permanent hype train going. That's you doing it to yourself. GW has far too many product lines to give everyone a constant feed of new products so they do the rolling releases they do.

They absolutely do try to keep a permanent hype train going in the way they announce products though. The rolling release schedule makes sense, but the thing that causes frustration and risks player burnout is the constant teasing of things coming out even in a few weeks time. Surprising people is good, but you want to have some certainty first as well.

To use an analogy, people know when their birthdays are coming up, and that they will get presents then. They have the anticipation of a surprise but they know when it will occur. By contrast, GW is hinting that ‘maybe you have a birthday coming up’ but refuses to tell you exactly when it is, then throws a surprise party for you when you already had plans that day. It still has the surprise, but isn’t giving it in a way that allows you control over it, which I personally find frustrating.

This is also bad because people like to plan their purchases, or even ask other oeople for them as gifts. Case in point, when the new AoS came out I really wanted to ask for it for my (mid June) birthday. But I couldn’t, because I wasn’t sure when it was coming out, so couldn’t say to family ‘this is what I want’. So I asked for something not from GW.

Psychic Awakening will include new rules for ALL armies, so how long do you think Psychic Awakening will last?

We can guess, but it’s not unreasonable to ask for this information.

Osiarch Bonereapers October
Mawtribes and Cities of Sigmar Soon(tm)
Plastic sisters within 3 months
Psychic Awakening will probably start within the next 3 months.
Marines will at this pace be completely done within the next 3 months.
2 more Warcry Warbands probably within next 3 months

your right, coming out with a rough overview isn't hard, you just need to just pay attention instead of turning your brain off the moment the info is not about your armies.

That’s a lot of maybes and probablys! The Warcry warbands are a good example of the problem: we know they’re coming, but absolutely no idea when. We know their names, it’s not unreasonable to want timing as well. I don’t want to know the exact models that will get released, that can come later, but knowing ‘there will be a Warcry release on X date’ would be nice.

It’s like I’ve said in the past regarding uncertainty in the game. Some uncertainty in the game is good, e.g. from dice rolling, but you need to be careful where it occurs in order to maximise enjoyment. Having to roll for your charge distance is a good moment of uncertainty, but it would not improve the game if you made every unit have to roll for movement in the movement phase as well. It’s the same thing with uncertainty in releases: building anticipation by teasing details of a release is good, not confirming when that release is coming is bad.

[Cheesegear]

In summary: Cheesegear, why have you lied to me?

First thing that sticks out to me in the LGT results is the lack of armies with 150+ models (where's the army with 120 Plaguebearers and Thousand Sons Supreme Commands?_. Okay. That's fair enough. But also it's bizarre. Let's check the tournament packet.

Chess clocks will be in use at the LGT unless both players agree not to use one but do not take precedence over the official end time of a round. If you and your opponent do not start your game on time because you are both late, instead of allocating 90 minutes to each player

...AKA...No Hordes Allowed.

This makes a huge impact on the meta, as it isn't "The game goes for 180 minutes, play as many turns as you can (PS. Your opponent with a horde will [totally legally] slow play you)."
This is "You get 90 minutes, once that runs out, your opponent has free turns."

In summary: Turn Timers (as opposed to Round Timers) Are A Big Deal.

Also, I would run the White Scars list. The other Space Marine lists look terrible and/or UnFun to play.

[Forum Explorer]

First thing that sticks out to me in the LGT results is the lack of armies with 150+ models. Okay. That's fair enough. But also it's bizarre. Let's check the tournament packet.



...AKA...No Hordes Allowed.

This makes a huge impact on the meta, as it isn't "The game goes for 180 minutes, play as many turns as you can (PS. Your opponent with a horde will [totally legally] slow play you)."
This is "You get 90 minutes, once that runs out, your opponent has free turns."

In summary: Turn Timers (as opposed to Round Timers) Are A Big Deal.

Also, I would run the White Scars list. The other Space Marine lists look terrible and/or UnFun to play.

Maybe it's my lack of horde armies, but I think Chess Clocks are legit. They make such a big difference for a game. I mean, I wouldn't really want to use them in any sort of pick up game, but for tournament play I almost don't want to play without them. In a tournament with them mandatated we pretty much always got 5-6 turns. And yeah, the guy who brought 60 plaguebearers, a bunch of 1000 Sons psykers and assorted other demons ran out of time. Who'd of thunk it?

A tournament without them? We'd be lucky to get in 4 turns. Everyone just moves so much faster with a chess clock going, even if they aren't running a horde.

[Cheesegear]

And yeah, the guy who brought 60 plaguebearers, a bunch of 1000 Sons psykers and assorted other demons ran out of time. Who'd of thunk it?

So yeah. I wouldn't go around saying "OMG Space Marines best Codex!!!" anytime soon.
I will say, however, that when hordes are removed from the game, anything that's actually left, will cop it hard from Thunderfires and Whirlwinds. Especially in the ITC where you can't hit 'em back.

Marines were already taking Thunderfires and Whirlwinds to deal with Tzaangors, Gretchin, Boyz, etc.
How do you think a 'normal' unit stands up to a Thunderfire shooting twice?

Repulsors increased in points, but G-man went down. So the net difference is basically 0, so the build still works, especially if you don't have to deal with 80 Poxwalkers.

That's where Aeldari come in. Space Marines still have a lot of shots, but with fewer - and more valuable - targets to shoot at, Aeldari panic and bring negs to hit.

It's not rocket science.

[LeSwordfish]

And I'm not buying anything, because they don't tell me anything! You can't keep a hype train going for ever and doing so isn't even helpful. It will breed resentment when the thing isn't all that awesome or just annoyance for why we can't know the basic outline of the release schedule.

Like, what is actually coming out for Sisters? Are there any new units or is it just Plastic models? Is there anything coming out for Ad Mech in the next 6 months? How about Orks?

Its not hard to come out with a rough 6 month overview.

I don't really care to argue their policies but when you start complaining about "burnout" and having things "inflicted" on you I think maybe you are too emotionally invested in the release policies of your preferred kind of toy soldiers. Either that or you're just whinging for no reason.

[Forum Explorer]

That's where Aeldari come in. Space Marines still have a lot of shots, but with fewer - and more valuable - targets to shoot at, Aeldari panic and bring negs to hit.

It's not rocket science.

Aeldari always pretty much bring negs to hit. I've tried playing without the negs to hit and it is significantly harder to do at a competitive level. Being T3 means you pretty much get torn apart by literally everything. Even lasguns are a lethal threat.

I kinda hate that, but cover just does too little to protect me. Line of Sight blocking stuff helps, but competitive play involves a lot of ignore LoS weaponry. That being said, I do try to avoid it at least a little bit.

[Drasius]

The first one is illegal with 4 techpriests. Each Warlord trait must be different for Exalted Court. But I like the second list best.

Damn it, I can't believe I missed that. Easy fix though, trade out the Stygies Rusty 17 for Loyal 32 and drop one of the point filler Ironstorms. I don't think I want to run non-Knights anyway to be honest, but that's just the way the game is at the moment.

Cheers for the feedback.

Forgot to mention: Local Blackshirt confirmed that the new IH named character is 110 points. Sounds like an auto-take to me, and maybe enough for more than a few chapters to make the switch to IH, almost regardless of what else they were doing.

[9mm]

...AKA...No Hordes Allowed.

This makes a huge impact on the meta, as it isn't "The game goes for 180 minutes, play as many turns as you can (PS. Your opponent with a horde will [totally legally] slow play you)."
This is "You get 90 minutes, once that runs out, your opponent has free turns."

This has been how all the major ITC tournies been doing it since FLG first experimented with it at the BAO last year. Chess clocks do not mean "no hordes," however if this is something new for the players over there people might scale back while getting used to things.

[Lord Torath]

Nice. You're a far braver man than I, painting that shade of bright yellow so close to blue. I took the coward's way out and chose to do them red and gold, like the Heresy colours, and if anyone asks it's "a warband thing".

Let's just say there was a LOT of touch-up work done on the yellow and blue. Reading glasses (I really HATE that my up-close vision is going!) a forehead light, and a very fine brush help.

[Cheesegear]

Chess clocks do not mean "no hordes," however if this is something new for the players over there people might scale back while getting used to things.

However, the other thing I will also concede that the amount of Knight Crusaders and Knight Wardens in the meta in the last 9 months (since Castellan nerf) has skyrocketed. Maybe the hordes took hard losses in Round 1, which means you can't make it to the Top? I would be interested to see the actual match-ups and whether the Space Marines ever had to deal with ~100 Termagants, Plaguebearers, Poxwalkers, Tzaangors, Boyz, etc.

I'd be interested to know if the Marine players in the Top 10 would normally run something else, but, because nu!Marines is a current novelty - especially one that people have **** on - were they taking it as a very quick test drive and/or as a '**** you' to the haters? Would the Marine players be in the Top 10 anyway because they simply know what they're doing and as long as they don't playing something obviously terrible - Necrons - then it's fine? Because I'm reading the Codex, like...Every other day. And I just don't get it. I understand Repulsors, Thunderfires and Whirlwinds. But the rest? Somebody's gonna have to explain it to me.
(However, as I said before, the White Scars list makes total sense and I would run it no problem.)

I know LansXero was like "This is what a healthy meta looks like."...But, like...Really?

3 Knight Crusader Lists,
3 Aeldari lists (even taking 1st and 2nd),
4 Marine lists.

Where's T'au? T'au are dominating left and right.
Not that the players winning the LGT don't know what they're doing. But, it's almost like a completely different meta. NOVA's was just so...Different.

I really want to see what the US West Coast does with the nu!Marine Codex. But the next big one is, what? LVO, in four months?

It's like that time Necrons were winning tournaments a few months ago...


But this time it was LGT, which is a real tournament that actually has consequences because GW actually pays attention to that.

[9mm]

Where's T'au? T'au are dominating left and right.

trying to figure out how to use the sword they got for winning NOVA :P

real talk though, A list check says Tau just was barely represented at the LGT.

[Squark]

I've been meaning to ask; What happened to the 2 original knight variants (Paladin and Errant?) Are they still a thing? Because I haven't seen their kits in a store, and the GW website no longer sells them.

[Cheesegear]

I've been meaning to ask; What happened to the 2 original knight variants (Paladin and Errant?) Are they still a thing?

...Not in the meta, they aren't.
But yeah. The 'Big Knight' box phased out the 'Little Knight' box. If I'm not mistaken, the 'Big Knight' box has in turn, also been phased out by the Preceptor kit.