Class and Level Geekery III (some [spoiler]s)

[Porthos]

A 4th level Conjurer with a 14 INT would have 4 2nd level spells and 5 1st level spells, with the Summon Monster spells being the xtra spells.

And since Pompey already says that he is a Conjurer, I think that explanation makes more sense.

NB: And if he had a scroll or two for the buffs, then Pompey could be as low as 3rd level. But we have no real evidence either way, there.

EDIT: Going on your EDIT, then Pompey is definitey 3rd Level (the same as Julia) since a 3rd Level Conjurer with a 14 INT has 3 2nd lvl spells and 4 1st level spells

[Porthos]

Sorry for the double post, but after checking Pompey is either 4th Level or he used a scroll along the way:

Pompey cast 5 touch spells on Sabine
Pompey casts Summon Monster II
Pompey casts Summon Monster II and Summon Monster I

That is eight total spells of various different types. I find it difficult to believe that Pompey is 5th or 6th level, simply because the spells wouldn't have run out in the Roy/Sabine fight and because that would make him twice the level of Julia.

However 4th level is just about right, depending on how much earlier Pompey buffed up Sabine.

As for the spells Pompey could have used, you forgot to add Shield, which could be another one of the 1st level spells.

So Mage Armor (armor bonus), Bear's Endurance (Con bonus), Cat's Grace (Dex bonus), Shield (shield bonus), and Protection From Good (deflection bonus) would seem to work perfectly.

That gives us 4 2nd Level spells and 3 1st Level spells, 1 unaccounted for Buff Spell and a 1st Level spell to spare.

[Jasdoif]

As for the spells Pompey could have used, you forgot to add Shield, which could be another one of the 1st level spells.

Shield is a personal range spell, he can't cast it on anyone except himself.

[Porthos]

Shield is a personal range spell, he can't cast it on anyone except himself.

D'oh! I should know better!

Been a while since I needed that spell. I'm going to go and change that now. Thanks.

[Wrecan]

IOne instance is in the Azure City jail. He doesn't succeed because of the antimagic field, but he at least tried, and you need 6 ranks in the perform skill to inspire competence. Although it's possible that this is just Elan being an idiot.

On that basis, almost nothing Elan says is evidence of anything! But I agree with your argument and am editing Elan's stats accordingly.

[Chronos]

I count three total Summon Monster IIs, there: Two in 350 (one for each of the 'pedes), and one in 354.

More thoughts on the Roy/Sabine fight: He was deliberately dragging the battle out longer until her buffs wore out. Does this suggest Combat Expertise? He's got the Int for it, and a 12th-level human fighter certainly has the feats to spend.

[Porthos]

I count three total Summon Monster IIs, there: Two in 350 (one for each of the 'pedes), and one in 354.

Fiendish monstrous centipede, Medium is a Summon I critter. Summon Monster II can summon 1d3 Summon Monster I critters.

Problem solved.

[wowy319]

I'm gonna have to say Thog's wisdom would also have to be below par, as a silent image has fooled him not once, but twice, in the course of the comics, and V suggests he has "An abysmal will saving throw."

I'd say 9 or lower, personally.

[turkishproverb]

I'm gonna have to say Thog's wisdom would also have to be below par, as a silent image has fooled him not once, but twice, in the course of the comics, and V suggests he has "An abysmal will saving throw."

I'd say 9 or lower, personally.

I'd think abysmal means lower than -1

[Kurald Galain]

All items are AMAZINGLY tough under the current rules.

They are? Oh, that's silly. But never mind about those potions, then.

said that to make show himself, as no matter how smart he is, his Ego is greater. Also, one-shotting the Chief could have been Artistic Licence again & represented a Full-Round Attack. We did see 's sword in the second from last panel.

Yes, that is a reasonable explanation, but saying Nale is Fighter 1/Rogue 5/Sorcere 6 is also a reasonable explanation. The point is that we don't know that Nale is a 3rd-level fighter. We only know that he's Fighter 1+, Rogue 1+, Sorcerer 6+.

Is "Vocal Sunder" an actual feat?

Well, no, but neither is Craft Disturbing Mental Image (which is on the list, even though it may well be a one-off joke rather than an actual feat).

Hell, she has armor too. And YikYik had some sort of tunic. And Roy has some boots. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Yes, and Roy's boots are listed, as is Durkon's shield. I figured there's little difference between those and Hilgya's helmet.

I believe he strikes the rapier, it's just not shown.

No, he explicitly says he can sunder that by speaking too loudly. And he does.

It probably is, but we don't know how much lower.

I thought the point of the thread was to list the minimum things we knew? There is, to my knowledge, no evidence that has 15 ranks in Craft: Basketweaving, and neither that he has 15 ranks in Concentration. Then why is the latter on the list if the former isn't?

That's not a real feat from any supplement of which I am aware. That comic is simply funny trumping rules.

As above, it's not a real feat, but neither is Craft Disturbing Mental Image.

When does he do that?

Here's an example of Elan doing inspiration without an instrument: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html

Some other things...
This is a link for Miko's knowledge (planes), and this is a link for Hinjo's high damage capacity.

Nale's Charisma must be at least 13 for him to cast Suggestion
Likewise, we know Leeky's wisdom is at least 17 (to cast Firestorm)
and Pompey's int is at least 12 (to cast Summon 2)
We can also say something about Hilgya's wis or Zz'tdri's int if we want to.

With respect to Belkar one-shotting Grand Larceny Guy, it is quite possible that the latter had been wounded in combat already.

Based on SOD, I believe Xykon's int was below average to start with (mentioned several times; and note how he doesn't devise many "fiendish plans" either, other than blasting stuff). When he became a lich, the +5 helped a lot.

Xykon's low-level fire spell could be anything, like scorching ray or whatnot. There's no evidence that it is Fireball.

[Jasdoif]

Xykon's low-level fire spell could be anything, like scorching ray or whatnot. There's no evidence that it is Fireball.

It could even be burning hands.

[Porthos]

Wrecan, I just noticed that your sig still points to the old Geekery Thread. You might want to update it when you get the chance.

[Chronos]

As above, it's not a real feat, but neither is Craft Disturbing Mental Image.

The difference is, Belkar explicitly says that Craft Disturbing Mental Image is a feat. If we're going to say that Belkar has Vocal Sunder, then we need to say that Elan has Rapier Wall-Scribing. Not every cool thing a character does need necessarily be a feat.

Here's an example of Elan doing inspiration without an instrument: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0454.html

That wouldn't be Inspire Competence, though, since that only works on skill checks, not attack rolls. It could be Inspire Courage (which only requires 4 ranks) or a few other things.

[Porthos]

The difference is, Belkar explicitly says that Craft Disturbing Mental Image is a feat. If we're going to say that Belkar has Vocal Sunder, then we need to say that Elan has Rapier Wall-Scribing. Not every cool thing a character does need necessarily be a feat.

I agree, especially since just a couple of panels earlier Belkar commented that a rapier was so weak, that he could Sunder it just by speaking loudly. When he does, he completes the joke.

That wouldn't be Inspire Competence, though, since that only works on skill checks, not attack rolls. It could be Inspire Courage (which only requires 4 ranks) or a few other things.

Minor Nitpick: Inspire Courage is 3 ranks, not 4.

However, Comic #238 would suggest that (no pun intended) Elan has Suggestion which requires 9 ranks. I only say Suggestion because Elan specifically mentions "a charming bard song to enchant them into following him" which is pretty much the Suggestion ability.

The fact that he failed (almost) utterly... Well, I guess Elan didn't read the fine print to realize that he could only Suggest one person at a time.

[Chrismith]

I'm gonna have to say Thog's wisdom would also have to be below par, as a silent image has fooled him not once, but twice, in the course of the comics, and V suggests he has "An abysmal will saving throw."

I'd say 9 or lower, personally.

Even if he has 10 wis, as a Barbarian 10/Fighter 2 he has a will save of +3. I'd call that pretty abysmal at those levels.

Yes, that is a reasonable explanation, but saying Nale is Fighter 1/Rogue 5/Sorcere 6 is also a reasonable explanation. The point is that we don't know that Nale is a 3rd-level fighter. We only know that he's Fighter 1+, Rogue 1+, Sorcerer 6+.

That's a good point, I'll change it.

Well, no, but neither is Craft Disturbing Mental Image (which is on the list, even though it may well be a one-off joke rather than an actual feat).

Craft Disturbing Mental Image (CDMI?) is specifically referred to as a feat. Belkar sundering Elan's rapier is just a joke. Why don't we assume that Elan has the "Etch logos (rapier)" feat? And anway, how do we know it's a feat? Maybe Belkar took a level in the Vocal Sunderer prestige class.

Yes, and Roy's boots are listed, as is Durkon's shield. I figured there's little difference between those and Hilgya's helmet.

You've got me there. While I think it's a waste of space to list mundane equipment like that, I'll defer to Wrecan's style and include them for consistency.

Some other things...
This is a link for Miko's knowledge (planes), and this is a link for Hinjo's high damage capacity.

Thanks, I've been wanting to add more links for things like that. But what are you getting at with the Hinjo link? Are you arguing for a higher Con score?

Nale's Charisma must be at least 13 for him to cast Suggestion
Likewise, we know Leeky's wisdom is at least 17 (to cast Firestorm)
and Pompey's int is at least 12 (to cast Summon 2)
We can also say something about Hilgya's wis or Zz'tdri's int if we want to.

Nale's, Leeky's, and Pompey's stats already reflect this. I did add Hilgya's and Zz'dtri's though.

Based on SOD, I believe Xykon's int was below average to start with (mentioned several times; and note how he doesn't devise many "fiendish plans" either, other than blasting stuff). When he became a lich, the +5 helped a lot.

Agreed, I've changed it.

[The Bushranger]

Does the fact that has...I guess it would be Borderline Personalities? affect her stats any?

[The_Blue_Sorceress]

Does the fact that has...I guess it would be Borderline Personalities? affect her stats any?

I'd argue that she doesn't have any other personalities (also, borderline personality disorders and what has previously been called multiple personality disorder are two separate mental illnesses, although borderline personality disorder does sometimes lead to episodes of the sort of disassociation that characterizes the mental illnesses formerly known as MPD. Anyway, I assume you mean the latter instead of the former.)

I think Haley's "Mistress Shadowgale" interactions are just a visual way of exploring her personal issues. Mistress Shadowgale isn't a personality, she's a metaphor, and Haley's interactions with her are only made to appear real to keep the comic interesting.

-Blue

[MCerberus]

Does the fact that has...I guess it would be Borderline Personalities? affect her stats any?

That would likely just be a character quirk... like having a druid afraid of any building larger than a hovel or a certain cleric being afraid of trees.

[Eco-Mono]

Belkar's Wisdom is exactly 9.
Proof: 9+4=13. Any lower and he couldn't have cast the scroll. Any higher and he wouldn't have a penalty.

:)

[Kreistor]

Belkar's Wisdom is exactly 9.
Proof: 9+4=13. Any lower and he couldn't have cast the scroll. Any higher and he wouldn't have a penalty.

Please note that this is discussed in the FAQ, post 2 in this thread.

[The Extinguisher]

Doesn't this comic suggest Elan's ranks in Perform (Sing)?

Or am I thinking too literally with skills again?

[Kreistor]

Doesn't this comic suggest Elan's ranks in Perform (Sing)?

Or am I thinking too literally with skills again?

It does suggest it, but he's not using it for a Bard Song, so we can't tell from that how many ranks he might have.

[Eco-Mono]

Please note that this is discussed in the FAQ, post 2 in this thread.

But Cure Serious Wounds is a third-level spell, not a fourth-level one. Why is it a contradiction? *confused*

[Jasdoif]

But Cure Serious Wounds is a third-level spell, not a fourth-level one. Why is it a contradiction? *confused*

For a ranger, like Belkar, it is a fourth-level spell.

While I believe the rules for scrolls are badly written, it remains that no indication of spell level is included when scribing a scroll, nor of caster class beyond the arcane/divine distinction. So the spell level for the caster must be used to determine the minimum ability score needed to use the scroll. Which, for Belkar, would be Wis 14.

[Wrecan]

But Cure Serious Wounds is a third-level spell, not a fourth-level one. Why is it a contradiction? *confused*

That's answered in the very next question in the FAQ.

[SoD]

Do we have stuff on MITD? I know we can't do much, including the most basic stuff (eg, race), but we could make a list of possesions (an umbrella, a torch, O-Chul, soft toy dragon, small table, tea set...probably other stuff as well), and abilities. Has this been done?

[Chrismith]

Do we have stuff on MITD? I know we can't do much, including the most basic stuff (eg, race), but we could make a list of possesions (an umbrella, a torch, O-Chul, soft toy dragon, small table, tea set...probably other stuff as well), and abilities. Has this been done?

He had an entry in C&LGII (the previous thread), but it basically just said that we don't know much about him. If someone wanted to make a list of what we know about him and/or his possessions, I'd be happy to add it to the villians sections.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Doesn't this comic suggest Elan's ranks in Perform (Sing)?

Or am I thinking too literally with skills again?

Well, I'd guess it was a result of "Great", "Memorable", or even "Extraordinary". The second means he has at least +5, and the last at least +10, but we couldn't really tell his ranks from it, given that we don't know what he rolled.

EDIT: Or maybe he's Fascinating them.

Looking further up the page...

However, Comic #238 would suggest that (no pun intended) Elan has Suggestion which requires 9 ranks. I only say Suggestion because Elan specifically mentions "a charming bard song to enchant them into following him" which is pretty much the Suggestion ability.

The fact that he failed (almost) utterly... Well, I guess Elan didn't read the fine print to realize that he could only Suggest one person at a time.

That's exactly how I read that strip: Elan has Suggestion as a Bard Song ability, but not Mass Suggestion. This means at least 9 ranks in Perform (Sing).

[Chronos]

It does suggest it, but he's not using it for a Bard Song, so we can't tell from that how many ranks he might have.

"Then sing, Elan! Sing a bard song for Roy".

Since everyone seems to pay attention to him while he's singing, I presume that would be Fascinate (which requires fewer ranks than Inspire Competence, though the save DC depends on the skill check).

[Shresh]

I personally would think that thog is chaotic stupid. just like V should be neutral talkative, and Haley should be neutral greedy. get the idea?