When you play the Game of Thrones...

[The Big Dice]

They may still dial it up - that was the equivalent to an initial round, one of hundreds. But yes, I don't see why they didn't dress up a football stadium for a few crowd shots and use clever cuts to give the sensation of space. As it is, it felt like something they have filmed in a corridor.

Grey Wolf

The same reason they do everything on TV: time and money. It takes time and costs money, and both are on a strict budget. Renting a football stadium would probably have cost as much as a full episode would. Certainly more then their budget for things like actors, food and so on. So you'd have got a great couple of crowd shots, then stick fogures on bits of paper for the rest of the show.

[hamlet]

I was this close to buying him as being hard because he knew what was waiting for Jon and Sam on the other side of the wall, then he moved in on Sam to purposely intimidate the weakest target. Went right back to bully status right there.

Actually, it's rather implied that he's both. Alliser is, of course, a bully, a jerk, a prig, and a whole bunch of other not nice things.

But he also happens to be quite good at training the new recruits in the use of sword, shield, and other weapons, at preparing them for what awaits them in their new lives of service and what lurks beyond the wall, which is why he was put in that position of power in the first place. That he is so much better able to indulge in his bully behavior is just happy coincidence for the man.

Also, it's implied in the books, and somewhat more explicit in the show, that Alliser is, himself, quite baddass on an individual level and quite devoted to the mission of the Night's Watch and, deep down, a fairly decent man in spite of his bully tendancies.

Plus, what he did to Sam could be viewed as a form of "tough love" so to speak. The fastest and most effective way to communicate to him that cowardice will get him killed, and most likely the others around him. He was also likely trying to dissuade the kid from sticking around and probably wanted him to go off to other things, probably saving his and others' lives in the long run.

All this is not to say that Alliser isn't a bully and isn't a jerk. Just that it's not as simple as "Alliser = bully."

[Closet_Skeleton]

You don't really want a completely antagonizing old knight either, though. I'm surprised Ser Alliser has apparently lasted so long without being knifed in his sleep or simply run through on the training grounds, considering how much pretty much everyone hates him and the recruits of the Night's Watch aren't exactly poster children for impulse control.

I was this close to buying him as being hard because he knew what was waiting for Jon and Sam on the other side of the wall, then he moved in on Sam to purposely intimidate the weakest target. Went right back to bully status right there.

I always assumed Ser Alliser being that bad was just a result of Jon's POV until he randomly

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turned into a lackey for Janos Slynt. Which just seemed out of character and conveniently putting the guys Jon hates on the same side. Which is pretty Gary Stu-ish.

Forcing Jon to work with Alliser and gain a grudging respect for him would have been much better character wise for Jon and show that he had grown beyond the stuck up guy that thought he was above everyone. Instead the writer just takes the easy way out and Jon gets to be Lord Commander to validate his superior Stark genes because a previous Stark became Lord Commander when rediculously young and ended up being awesome which somehow gives a guy who isn't even that genetically close the credentials to be Lord Commander.

[/spoiler]

[Cog]

He was also likely trying to dissuade the kid from sticking around and probably wanted him to go off to other things, probably saving his and others' lives in the long run.

Other things? Don't the choices amount to going north to see ice or going south to see Ice?

[Dienekes]

Other things? Don't the choices amount to going north to see ice or going south to see Ice?

Only once they take the oath. Technically Jon Snow and Sam could leave whenever they wanted. The robbers and rapists couldn't though.

[hamlet]

Other things? Don't the choices amount to going north to see ice or going south to see Ice?

As stated, they hadn't taken any oathes at this point, so they were free to leave. And, conceivably, Sam could probably have gotten himself a relatively nice and cushy position by heading to Old Town. It's just that Tarly Sr. probably had no interest in seeing his son robed and chained as a Maester and thought that taking the Black was the only solution.

Sam being there is much more a function of the father's point of view than Sam's, who would have done much better . . . well . . . just about anywhere else.

Hell, he could even have gone across the Narrow Sea and found something in the Free Cities.

[BRC]

As I see it, Alister's treatment of Sam wasn't well intentioned, or the best idea at the time, but it was Alister doing what he knew how to do. He's been training Nights Watch recruits for years, and he isn't good at changing his patterns.
Normally the recruits he receives come in three flavors, commoners who committed some crime and chose the Wall rather than another punishment, and nobles/knights who are not wanted anywhere else.
It's his job to take these people and turn them into combat ready brothers of the Nights Watch. His technique for this is to be a bully, he doesn't really interact with them once they leave training, so he belittles them, scolds them, and has them beat each other bloody on the training field until they want to do well just to spite him. He Pushes them until they push back, and usually this works, or else he wouldn't still be doing the job.
However, there are two people this did not work against.
1: John Snow, John already knew how to fight, his problem was Pride, so Alister just sent the others against him, turning Commoner against Noble. The idea was that eventually the others would be good enough to beat him, and he would learn to respect them. However, John was still too proud, so it took Tyrion's intervention to make him realize he was being a jerk.
2: Sam. With Sam I got the impression that Alister was trying to motivate him to push back. He HAD to turn Sam into a fighting member of the Nights Watch, and Alister simply dosn't know how to be a nice person.
Normally when he's sent a Nobleman, he's dealing with somebody with some pride, pride that he can use to motivate them. However, Sam's self esteem is incredibly low already. No matter how much he pushed, Alister would never get Sam to stand up for himself.

but, pushing is all he knows how to do, and so he keeps doing it.


Even if Alister knew that a different technique was required where Sam was concerned, he couldn't do it. His training relies on all the recruits thinking of him as a cruel monster (Which he is, but for the sake of argument lets say he's just putting on an act). If suddenly he starts coddling the fat noble then he loses everything he had with the other recruits.

It's also possible that Alister considered Sam a lost cause the moment he saw him. So he's got a noble who he thinks is as good as dead already, and a training yard full of peasants who are allowed to hit said noble. Maybe his intent was to use Sam as a punching bag to motivate the other recruits, let them unite in their shared hatred of nobility.
Remember, Alister works on a deadline. I don't think he has the ability to "Fail" any recruits. You get a set amount of time with Alister, and then you're a member of the Nights Watch whether your ready or not. He needs to set up a pressure-cooker training program, and bullying is his method for doing that.

[Cog]

Only once they take the oath. Technically Jon Snow and Sam could leave whenever they wanted. The robbers and rapists couldn't though.

Aah, okay.

[BRC]

Aah, okay.

Technically, they could, but not really. Sam's father made it clear that he wasn't welcome back home, and it's not like he has money to get anywhere else.

In addition, leaving once you've gone to the wall, even if you haven't yet taken your oath, is probably a HUGE stigma, especially in the North. John certainly wouldn't be welcome in Winterfell after leaving the Wall.

[hamlet]

<SNIP>

That's a great interpretation.

[hamlet]

Technically, they could, but not really. Sam's father made it clear that he wasn't welcome back home, and it's not like he has money to get anywhere else.

In addition, leaving once you've gone to the wall, even if you haven't yet taken your oath, is probably a HUGE stigma, especially in the North. John certainly wouldn't be welcome in Winterfell after leaving the Wall.

I don't know. I tend to think that most of the reasonable people in the North woudn't see a whole lot wrong with somebody realizing before they made the oath that they'd made a mistake, or simply that they didn't belong there and were a detriment to others and left for that reason.

Plus, Sam theoretically could have gone to Old Town. Maybe.

[Seerow]

As stated, they hadn't taken any oathes at this point, so they were free to leave. And, conceivably, Sam could probably have gotten himself a relatively nice and cushy position by heading to Old Town. It's just that Tarly Sr. probably had no interest in seeing his son robed and chained as a Maester and thought that taking the Black was the only solution.

Book Spoilers

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Indeed, I believe in book 4 when Sam is heading to Old Town, he mentions that Sam had wanted to go to train as a Maester, and his father said something along the lines of he'd kill him before he let that happen. It's only after he takes the black and is commanded to train as a Maester by the Night's Watch that he is able to get over this

[hamlet]

Book Spoilers

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Indeed, I believe in book 4 when Sam is heading to Old Town, he mentions that Sam had wanted to go to train as a Maester, and his father said something along the lines of he'd kill him before he let that happen. It's only after he takes the black and is commanded to train as a Maester by the Night's Watch that he is able to get over this

Yeah. That, and the dude's father's certifiably homicidal at some point.

[Zmflavius]

Yeah. That, and the dude's father's certifiably homicidal at some point.

At some point? He is homicidal, through and through.

[Weezer]

At some point? He is homicidal, through and through.

But it's okay, cause he's got a pretty sword.

[Serpentine]

Haven't read the books but I'm loving the show and:


Jus' sayin'.

[hamlet]

Haven't read the books but I'm loving the show and:


Jus' sayin'.

Actually not wholly off the mark . . .

[crowe]

As I see it, Alister's treatment of Sam wasn't well intentioned, or the best idea at the time, but it was Alister doing what he knew how to do. He's been training Nights Watch recruits for years, and he isn't good at changing his patterns.
Normally the recruits he receives come in three flavors, commoners who committed some crime and chose the Wall rather than another punishment, and nobles/knights who are not wanted anywhere else.
It's his job to take these people and turn them into combat ready brothers of the Nights Watch. His technique for this is to be a bully, he doesn't really interact with them once they leave training, so he belittles them, scolds them, and has them beat each other bloody on the training field until they want to do well just to spite him. He Pushes them until they push back, and usually this works, or else he wouldn't still be doing the job.
However, there are two people this did not work against.
1: John Snow, John already knew how to fight, his problem was Pride, so Alister just sent the others against him, turning Commoner against Noble. The idea was that eventually the others would be good enough to beat him, and he would learn to respect them. However, John was still too proud, so it took Tyrion's intervention to make him realize he was being a jerk.
2: Sam. With Sam I got the impression that Alister was trying to motivate him to push back. He HAD to turn Sam into a fighting member of the Nights Watch, and Alister simply dosn't know how to be a nice person.
Normally when he's sent a Nobleman, he's dealing with somebody with some pride, pride that he can use to motivate them. However, Sam's self esteem is incredibly low already. No matter how much he pushed, Alister would never get Sam to stand up for himself.

but, pushing is all he knows how to do, and so he keeps doing it.


Even if Alister knew that a different technique was required where Sam was concerned, he couldn't do it. His training relies on all the recruits thinking of him as a cruel monster (Which he is, but for the sake of argument lets say he's just putting on an act). If suddenly he starts coddling the fat noble then he loses everything he had with the other recruits.

It's also possible that Alister considered Sam a lost cause the moment he saw him. So he's got a noble who he thinks is as good as dead already, and a training yard full of peasants who are allowed to hit said noble. Maybe his intent was to use Sam as a punching bag to motivate the other recruits, let them unite in their shared hatred of nobility.
Remember, Alister works on a deadline. I don't think he has the ability to "Fail" any recruits. You get a set amount of time with Alister, and then you're a member of the Nights Watch whether your ready or not. He needs to set up a pressure-cooker training program, and bullying is his method for doing that.

Great summation, I would like to add, that perhaps the man thinks that if he cannot get Sam to fight for himself, he can get him to fight for his friends, or do the responsible thing and not endanger others that might count on him in the future and not take the oath. Service on the wall is an eye-opener to alot of people, and it is deadly serious business to the leadership. It is a great abstraction of modern military service.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Great summation, I would like to add, that perhaps the man thinks that if he cannot get Sam to fight for himself, he can get him to fight for his friends, or do the responsible thing and not endanger others that might count on him in the future and not take the oath.

He encourages people to bully Sam, so he's not giving him any friends to fight for. I think he just wants to speed up the process of letting the weak die.

[Kobold-Bard]

And I'm all caught up.

I liked it.

[Dienekes]

So new episode. I missed about 5 minutes in the middle but I enjoyed it immensely, lots of swords and fun fights.

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Well, they're not even trying to subtle with the whole Renly/Loras. And they added some to the dynamic of the whole relationship. Interesting, but I'm glad we cut away before we got to bare witness to Loras' considerable abilities handling a sword.

I also enjoyed the added scene between Varys and Littlefinger. Watching the two greatest spymasters in the kingdom trying to out sly remark each other was a great treat. The scene between Cersei and Robert was also pretty good and added some depth to both characters.

But the center of this particular episode would have to be the fights. I enjoy how they played out. They're fast brutal and they seem to have a lot of skill involved not just bashing each other. I particularly enjoyed The Mountain's time in the sun. I'm glad they kept the beheading of the horse and Sandor's kneeling dodge was possibly the coolest thing I've ever seen. It caused my brother to stand up in excitement.

That said, I'm a little disappointing that the tourney completely ignored Sandor vs Jaime and I wanted to see a scene of the melee, and an introduction to Thoros. That particularly is needed since he plays such a role later on. But still, I really enjoyed this episode.

[Serpentine]

Haven't read the books but I'm loving the show and:


Jus' sayin'.

I made it on the front page of TotallyLooksLike with this

[DomaDoma]

Haven't read the books but I'm loving the show and:


Jus' sayin'.

Somewhat off-topic, but you reminded me:

[thorgrim29]

And so it begins...

Very cool episode, loved the fight scenes.

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Was Ned matched with or even better then Jaime or did I read that wrong? But poor Jory sure wasn't... Sniff. I did not at all remember that Loras and Renly were an item. The scene between Robert and Cercei was very well acted and powerful, and the Vale characters (Lysa, Robin and Bron) are spot on. But I don't know if it's intentional or not but Robert 's characterisation is inconsistent, he goes from spoiled brat/tyrant to sympathetic character looking for a redemption.

[Flame of Anor]

Other things? Don't the choices amount to going north to see ice or going south to see Ice?

I LOL'd.

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But I don't know if it's intentional or not but Robert 's characterisation is inconsistent, he goes from spoiled brat/tyrant to sympathetic character looking for a redemption.

Consider--might this be correlated to how drunk he is at any one time?

[Knaight]

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Was Ned matched with or even better then Jaime or did I read that wrong? But poor Jory sure wasn't... Sniff. I did not at all remember that Loras and Renly were an item. The scene between Robert and Cercei was very well acted and powerful, and the Vale characters (Lysa, Robin and Bron) are spot on. But I don't know if it's intentional or not but Robert 's characterisation is inconsistent, he goes from spoiled brat/tyrant to sympathetic character looking for a redemption.

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In the book Ned's horse fell on his leg, and he didn't really duel Jaime. In the TV show, they were clearly about matched, which is inconsistent with the book, where Jaime is pretty much the best swordsman since the death of Ser Arthur Dawn, and Ned is merely talented. Concerning Loras and Renly, it isn't explicitly stated in the books, but there are implications throughout, particularly in the scenes leading up to Renly's death. As far as Robert's characterization goes, it seems consistent enough, merely multifaceted. The spoiled brat/tyrant is one of them, and sympathetic character looking for redemption another, and alcoholism connects the two, as does frustration and helplessness at any given time.

[SuperPanda]

oooh more twists and turns.

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Spy v Spy: While I very much enjoyed the two spymasters going at eachother, I think I know which of the two I'm rooting for. While the Eunich seems to be the better person on the whole Little Finger is just too much fun,. I feel the eunich is more trustworthy, which is exactly why I'd probbaly rely on Little Finger.

The fights: Hound vs Mountain was awesome. I was ready to write of Hound as just another brutish thug with a sad story explaining why he became a mindless mook, but here he shows enough character that I'm really starting to hope he evolves into a hero fire almost.

New contestants for the throne: Flower knight and boyfriend. I didn't get the feeling that either of them were in anyway real players in the game. Was I suppose to have?

Knights of the Vale:
Tyrion: They say its impregnable.
Soldier: Give me ten good men and some climbing spikes and I'll impregnate the bitch.
Tyrion: I think I like you.

Seriously the imp continues to be a great character, the only complaint about him I have so far is that we didn't get enough time with him.

The lady of the Vale was noticeably insane. I loved how lady stark was getting increasingly impatient as the meeting went on.

Dathraky (Spelling?) storyline: This weeks was awesome (they didn't show any). On a serious note, I have been enjoying it though I was disappointed to find out that the one cool character in that thread I liked was betraying his side. I'm glad Ned turned his back on the King over the proposed plan and I sort of want the Jorah to find this out so I can see his reaction. The blond chick isn't going to wind up allying with the Starks later on is she?

Ned vs Jamie: I didn't see a fight between equals. I saw Ned with his superior weight and probably superior muscle power throwing an all out aggressive attack on Jamie (Power Attack much?) who was easily, almost casually, defelcting said assault. The only time things went bad for Jamie was when he left Ned lock swords with him. Since Ned is bigger (Fat and muscle it looks like) locking swords is in Neds favor, and yet Jamie held his own there. I took him getting pissed at the guard who injured Ned as being angry because he, Jamie, was just getting warmed up and enjoyed the sport of it.

Just some thoughts from me.

Hopes for next week:

Tyrion is returned to Jamie and almost imediatly figures out Jamie was involved in the assassination through what he learned from Lady Stark and then two go at it for a while. Might even involve a temporary alliance of Little Finger and Tyrion (Would make me very happy).

Jorah finds out that Ned Stark resigned as kings hand because Richard wants to kill the not-lanister-but-still-super-blonde girl. He's somewhat upset because he had sent that message not to betray his new queen but t lure Stark into a trap and now has to pick a side.

something more about the coming winter... I didn't get any Wall antics this episode. Have they all gone Lord of the Flys now?

More Dire wolf (where are the puppies?).

Targaryn lad get smacked some more. That always brightened up previous episodes he was in.

[thorgrim29]

Well you've got one right...

[hamlet]

oooh more twists and turns.

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Spy v Spy: While I very much enjoyed the two spymasters going at eachother, I think I know which of the two I'm rooting for. While the Eunich seems to be the better person on the whole Little Finger is just too much fun,. I feel the eunich is more trustworthy, which is exactly why I'd probbaly rely on Little Finger.

The fights: Hound vs Mountain was awesome. I was ready to write of Hound as just another brutish thug with a sad story explaining why he became a mindless mook, but here he shows enough character that I'm really starting to hope he evolves into a hero fire almost.

New contestants for the throne: Flower knight and boyfriend. I didn't get the feeling that either of them were in anyway real players in the game. Was I suppose to have?

Knights of the Vale:
Tyrion: They say its impregnable.
Soldier: Give me ten good men and some climbing spikes and I'll impregnate the bitch.
Tyrion: I think I like you.

Seriously the imp continues to be a great character, the only complaint about him I have so far is that we didn't get enough time with him.

The lady of the Vale was noticeably insane. I loved how lady stark was getting increasingly impatient as the meeting went on.

Dathraky (Spelling?) storyline: This weeks was awesome (they didn't show any). On a serious note, I have been enjoying it though I was disappointed to find out that the one cool character in that thread I liked was betraying his side. I'm glad Ned turned his back on the King over the proposed plan and I sort of want the Jorah to find this out so I can see his reaction. The blond chick isn't going to wind up allying with the Starks later on is she?

Ned vs Jamie: I didn't see a fight between equals. I saw Ned with his superior weight and probably superior muscle power throwing an all out aggressive attack on Jamie (Power Attack much?) who was easily, almost casually, defelcting said assault. The only time things went bad for Jamie was when he left Ned lock swords with him. Since Ned is bigger (Fat and muscle it looks like) locking swords is in Neds favor, and yet Jamie held his own there. I took him getting pissed at the guard who injured Ned as being angry because he, Jamie, was just getting warmed up and enjoyed the sport of it.

Just some thoughts from me.

Hopes for next week:

Tyrion is returned to Jamie and almost imediatly figures out Jamie was involved in the assassination through what he learned from Lady Stark and then two go at it for a while. Might even involve a temporary alliance of Little Finger and Tyrion (Would make me very happy).

Jorah finds out that Ned Stark resigned as kings hand because Richard wants to kill the not-lanister-but-still-super-blonde girl. He's somewhat upset because he had sent that message not to betray his new queen but t lure Stark into a trap and now has to pick a side.

something more about the coming winter... I didn't get any Wall antics this episode. Have they all gone Lord of the Flys now?

More Dire wolf (where are the puppies?).

Targaryn lad get smacked some more. That always brightened up previous episodes he was in.

I always find it interesting to see what people who have no knowledge of the books come up with in the show. Fascinating really.

Suffice to say, you're in for a lot of big surprises in the next couple episodes.

[SuperPanda]

I'm greatly loving the show. I need to find myself a copy of the book though I've decided that if (read as when) I do this I'll need to make sure I don't read past where the events of the show are. I know book > show, but I've taken a real liking to the show and I don't want to ruin the surprises and such in the show by reading past the plot in the book and then causing me to get disappointed with the show for missing something/doing something wrong.

Since it seems to be fun, I'll keep putting my reactions / predictions up after I get to see new episodes so that those who have already read the books can enjoy seeing how us uninitiated see the Game of Thrones.


P.S. I will continue to forget people's names because they aren't said often enough in the show for me to remember despite the characters being represented strongly enough that I know who everyone is. Not to mention that so many people have, lets say creative vowel choices, in their names. You'll be getting alot more of things like "whiney-but-strangly-attractive-blonde-girl-who-is-more-likely-than-not-a-sympathetic-antagonist" or "whimpy-one-ball-Lanister" as we go through these stories