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2011-05-27, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
The worst thing I've got in pewter is a Thunderfire Cannon that can't be put together because it doesn't fit due to the shrinking. So it seems like they've traded one set of problems for another.
"Mech is king."
Heinz Guderian
Johann Kraus avatar courtesy of Beleth.
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2011-05-27, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
GENERATION 15: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
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2011-05-27, 03:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Does that not make the stake a complete waste of time/points? I mean. Who takes Independent characters and not give them a unit?
Also: Ordo Xenos Rad Grenades are awesome yet underrated.Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-05-27 at 03:41 AM.
So... Tired...
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2011-05-27, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Did...
Did you think they meant cheaper for you?
*guffaw*
The pewter-ish metal they use is getting more expensive quickly. It is cheaper, for them, to use resin.
New moulds etc cost some money, true, but it's mostly extra profits on their part.I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
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2011-05-27, 04:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
There are units that consist entirely of Pskers. Eldar Seer Councils, pretty much anything in the Grey Knights Codex, IG Psker Battle Squads, lots of Tyranid MCs, etc.
But yeah, your odds of actually running into those make it only useful when list tailoring. Which is bad.
And yes, Rad Grenades are very nice. Same for Psychotroke Grenades. You can also get them on Grand Masters and Brother Captains.
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2011-05-27, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Originally Posted by Flying Scranian
Maybe the Witch Hunters Errata tells us how it works, but I don't have it to hand at the moment.
Well remembered. All I could think of was "Castallen Crowe from Codex: Grey Knights is a psyker an can't join units" but all of those make sense, too. Talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees!~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2011-05-27, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Last edited by PanNarrans; 2011-05-27 at 06:46 AM.
Some characters of mine: http://lmaorpg.proboards.com/index.c...read=90&page=1
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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2011-05-27, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
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2011-05-27, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
He gives a unit of paladins 4 eternal warrior storm shield wounds. This is very useful when his unit is being shot at by enemies that have only one or two AP1 weapons in the unit.
Using hammerhand three times on halberds is pretty nasty too.
Depends on the tank. At long range they're still AP1 krak missiles.
The ravenwing battleforce has the old speeder sprue but the ravenwing sprues it has three of has typhoon missiles and tornado assault cannons for it.
A lot of the ogre sized models are being made cheaper by putting them in a box of 3 for £30.
They're switching to resin to make it cheaper to them. Or so that they don't have to raise the price on metals more than the finecast stuff would cost. Plus they just spent a ton on new molds."that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2011-05-27, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
So +1s in close combat and a 275pt fire magnet within what is probably already one of the most expensive units on the table?
To be honest, I had hoped for something more pro-active, but having said that I have seen far worse performed by characters that I thought far better~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2011-05-27, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Using hammerhand three times on halberds is pretty nasty too.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2011-05-27, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
So I remember hearing Forgeworld resin can be carcinogenic and should therefore be handled with care - what about the Finecast stuff, is that safe?
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In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2011-05-27, 08:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- England
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2011-05-27, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Hammerhand stacks with itself. Its mentioned in the book I think.
The main reason Draigo rarely kills his points is that his unit strikes at higher initiative and there's usually nothing left.
But there's a big differance between 5 Paladins losing a model to plasma every turn and Draigo losing a wound to plasma every other turn and the Paladins being fine taking their 2+ saves and feel no pain."that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2011-05-27, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Resins and plastics are also getting more expensive. I do indeed work in plastics manufacturing, as Cheesegear alluded to at the bottom of the last page, and materials costs are skyrocketing due to the increasing price of petroleum. I'm not sure how much of a materials savings this will be for them over the long term. Most of the resins and thermoplastics we work with are fairly safe in solid form; I can only think of one compound in particular that's considered toxic to handle, and that not especially so. (And it's a clear, flexible synthetic rubber, not a hard resin.) If Forge World is using an especially carcinogenic resin compound, they have no good reason to be doing so that I'm aware of.
Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2011-05-27 at 08:32 AM.
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2011-05-27, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Originally Posted by Closet Skeleton
I'd say that it probably does - given that the majority of units can only get multiple bonuses by being joined by multiple IC's, it's probably not going to get so far out of hand as to be deemed 'silly'.
The question that interests me more, if I have to be brutally honest; is it a bigger difference than just paying for 5 more Paladin?Last edited by Wraith; 2011-05-27 at 10:25 AM.
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2011-05-27, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
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2011-05-27, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-05-27, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2011-05-27, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Welcome to a long road of valor, victory, and bravery Wolf Brother! The flexibility of the Sons of Russ allows for an entire slew of build possibilities, but I'm going to offer you a few pointers--this is just a young wolf's humble opinion, so don't take it as stone-wrought.
I like everything in the codex EXCEPT Bloodclaws, Swiftclaws, and Skyclaws...and whirlwinds.
You will want more meltaguns, some for your Grey Hunters, one for a scout pack, but even more for your Wolf Guard to make Combi-meltas.
Long Fangs--they do work. Until you put together a proper squad of the heavy weapon specialists, however, your rune priest can pop enemy light vehicles with a bit of lightning. Rune priests are really good. You also probably want a Space Wolf battleforce somewhere in there--the number of wolfy bitz you get is enough to keep going for ages.
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2011-05-27, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
they are pitched as troops because of haemunculus coven special rules, they count as troops if you take a haemunculus.
A lot of the ogre sized models are being made cheaper by putting them in a box of 3 for £30.
They're switching to resin to make it cheaper to them. Or so that they don't have to raise the price on metals more than the finecast stuff would cost. Plus they just spent a ton on new molds.
but i admit i must have misread the cheaper for us part
what was i thinking
DMLast edited by Hawkfrost000; 2011-05-27 at 12:02 PM.
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"But iron - cold iron - is master of them all."
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2011-05-27, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
To be fair, it probably is cheaper for us. After all, if they are making this switch because of growing metal prices, and still felt it was necessary to increase the prices on the Finecast models, the implication is that if they had not made the switch to Finecast, they would have been forced to increase the prices even more than they did now.
Last edited by Winterwind; 2011-05-27 at 09:38 AM.
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In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
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2011-05-27, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Pewter is still a much more limited resource than plastic/resin; it's getting more expensive fairly significantly quicker than the alternatives.
I don't think it's so much that it's carcinogenic, but if you file it you get resin dust in your lungs which is bad news.
I mean, damn near everything causes cancer these days.I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
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2011-05-27, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Both are true. It's carcinogenic when its dust is inhaled.
So... Tired...
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2011-05-27, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
The battleforce is the next item on the shopping list, after paints, glue and colored dice. I admit that Bloodclaws missing out on the Shooting phase is painful, but my first impression is that the additional charging attack makes up for it. It seems to me that a squad of them in a Drop Pod with Lukas the Trickster would make a good suicide unit. Long Fangs are on the shopping list, along with a rune priest.
@Nameless Ghost: Thanks for the advice.
My dad quit eating toast after he heard burning it makes it carcinogenic. I've quit worrying about it. After all, my family's history of lung cancer in nonsmokers is already enough to keep me up at night (Both my mother and her father died from it).
Sorry about the double post, everyone.Last edited by Teln; 2011-05-27 at 10:09 AM.
Originally Posted by Book of Erotic Fantasy
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2011-05-27, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Attack Bikes in Bike Squads.
Is it worth taking Attack Bikes in Bike squads. Is there a minimum size for them to be useful?
I tried using 5-man biker squads with an extra Attack Bike but felt that the squad was too small to protect the attack bikes from becoming casualties.
I was also unsure which weapon option would be best:
2 Plasmaguns + Multimelta (Tank ahoy!) or
2 Plasmaguns + Heavy Bolter (Infantry ahoy!)
A dedicated attack bike squad feels like a weak link since it's vulnerable to ID while a Bike Squad can, in theory, spread the casualties to avoid it. However when you've only got 2 'spare' Bikers that's a little tricky.So... Tired...
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2011-05-27, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
In related news, the new 'Working With Resin' article up on the Forge World website, says:
The resin that we use has no inherent health risks, but we do recommend a dust mask if you are filing or sanding – as with any fine substance, resin dust can be an irritant.
Take into account that a normal biker costs you half the points of an Attack bike with a Multi-melta. You also get the same number of Wounds vs shooting as you'd get with 2 bikers. And what works out as a free Multi-melta. Multi-melta!
If you take a full sized squad, you can Combat Squad the Attack bike into a different unit. If this is the plan, it won't matter what other special weapons you have.
The Heavy bolter tends to be an inferior choice because you can get them in much more suitable places elsewhere in an army, while a single Multi-melta has a reasonable chance of popping a light tank even at 24" and anything at 12" - which is where your bike squads want to be anyway.Last edited by Nameless Ghost; 2011-05-27 at 10:30 AM.
Burning feathers; not an angel
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2011-05-27, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Last edited by Teln; 2011-05-27 at 10:22 AM.
Originally Posted by Book of Erotic Fantasy
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2011-05-27, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Super charging powers only really work if you can reliably obliterate any enemy on the charge and good as they are Blood Claws can't without massive numbers.
If Blood Claws fail to kill on the charge they're just Grey Hunters that get hit on 3s.
Lukas the Trickster is good for suicide Blood Claws, but you can't charge in the turn a drop pod drops so Grey Hunters with they guns and counterattack are way better with drop pods.
Blood Claws fail because they aren't as flexible as Grey Hunters, only synergise with land raiders from a mech perspective and don't have what Black Templars need to make their footslogging horde marine units work (and even then they aren't competative).
Blood Claws would be worth it if they were 13 pts a model but lost their berserker charge rule. That would put them on a similar level to Black Templar's neophytes, their closest analogue. Being less elite troops without a points drop hurts them and means they don't really have a role in the codex."that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2011-05-27, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"
Hmm... Grand Masters get Grand Strategy anyway, and I'd be surprised to see more than one unit of Paladin in a Grey Knight army anyway. 275pts for a Storm Shield, Eternal Warrior and Unyielding Anvil becoming d3+1 (or perhaps 2, in bigger games and unusual themed armies)?
I really want to like Draigo; there's a lot *to* like in all fairness, but I'm struggling to see how he's worthwhile in any game small than 2000pts, which is about as large as I ever play (and certainly with Grey Knights).~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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