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Thread: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
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2012-02-29, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
If you're generfluid, we will still care about you.
If you are trans*, we will still care about you.
If you are something else entirely, we will still care about you.
Your body is yours to find the path of, and we are here to support you. ...Well, I am at least, but I imagine most others are as well.
*Offers hugs*LGBTitP
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2012-02-29, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
...I admit, I squeed a bit. Thanks, Rappy.
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2012-02-29, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
SpoilerYes, this patient!
... huh, I didn't remember that last part. Must watch the end again.
Well, when I first watched it, I didn't think it was bad. Then, when I re-watched it, I thought "so, she's alright with incest, quasi-rape, and using her body to have her way, but not homosexuality? Hah, karma's a [REDACTED], [REDACTED]!"
(I did not like models or manipulative brats very much. I still don't. I'm not saying that was a very smart judgment.)
But now, after thinking about it some more and reading your comment, I mostly go "what, that wasn't borderline rape, that WAS rape. And... huh... wait. Was the whole plot designed for that punchline? But... curing her of WHAT exactly... what the... what!?"
I'm gonna lay down and think about what I was doing wrong. I feel like I've thought terrible things, but I can't narrow down accurately what prejudice was involved.
EDIT: what Rappy said? I second it.Last edited by Mono Vertigo; 2012-02-29 at 07:33 PM.
Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
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2012-02-29, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
SpoilerDon't feel bad! It was kind of subtle, and if I recall she was annoying as hell. :/
But yeah, I'm pretty sure that her libido, anger and whatnot were explained by the aforementioned genital streaks... Something about a hormone "imbalance". :/
I only saw the episode once a couple of years back, though. I have pretty good memory, but I may have filled in a gap or two at the time (sorry if I did)...
EDIT: what Rappy said? I second it.
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2012-02-29, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
*hugs to Heliomance* Just be yourself. Whateve rthat is, it's most important.
*HUGS ANYONE ELSE WHO NEEDS IT*
Just in case.
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2012-02-29, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Yeah, Serpentine is probably right.
I didn't mean that surrogacy is equal to sperm donation in regard of the various difficulties posed on the respective donor (physically, there's virtually no risk for the sperm donor).
Over all, it's just silly this whole "you get one right, we lose one right" all over again. Eh, no, you don't.
Be careful there. The representatives of the kyriarchy say the same thing about feminists and LGBTA persons and associations.
I've wondered that, whether a trans woman get her orgasms changed after SRS, if she gets able to get multiple orgasms.
Also, do trans women keep the prostate? Considering that it's vital to the "male" orgasm, never mind *how* it's achieved.
Personally, I get mixed feelings about it. When I was younger, I thought it was very funny, but now, I feel mixed about it. I don't *think* the sketch was mean-spirited or anything, but I feel sad for Loretta.
I have similar, contradicting feelings about Lieutenant Hubert Gruber from 'Allo 'Allo!, BBC's parody of its own Secret Army.
SpoilerGiven he's gay or bi, and an officer of the Wehrmacht Heer, he can be seen as the unfortunate "gay Nazi" stereotype (though he never utters racist or fascist statements). But I can't help liking the character!
So I've made my own personal chronology in which he's secretly an Abwehr agent or member of the Schwarze Kapelle, working to destroy the Nazis.
*hugs*Viking/Paladin by Astrella
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2012-02-29, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Well, I felt really bad again a bit earlier. :s *hugs*
Maybe teaching them would help, but it's not easy when other people are around without it seeming odd. (I'm not out to anyone except for my therapist.)
*hugs*
Take it easy and take your time to figure stuff out. I know it took me ages before I came to terms with it and started understanding it.
*hugs* (and what I said to Helio)
Hmm, I don't think so? It's HRT that causes the big changes. Though out of personal experience mental headspace has a lot to do with it as well.
and this is me being petty, but I was a bit hurt at how little attention my last few posts got comparatively... :<Last edited by Astrella; 2012-02-29 at 10:55 PM.
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2012-02-29, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
How on Earth to I tell someone that I like them?
I feel embarrassed, and I feel like I may embarrass someone else, and I feel like I may just botch the whole thing. Maybe she doesn't think I'm attractive, maybe she doesn't like guys, maybe she doesn't like me.Steam username is Triscuitable.
I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
I try not to think of how sad that is.
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2012-02-29, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-02-29, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
^All of that, plus not looking like a 90's-era Hollywood cop. :/
Yeah, but they could do that even if you weren't in a stall.
... And there's no guarantee that you could see enough of them to know if they were around at all...
*Hugs* Well, at least he's gotten better about it. That's a good sign.
Not sure... It doesn't seem like that should be necessary... *contemplates bangs*
I've actually heard of male multiple orgasms, but technically I can't be certain whether those were close enough together to count... It doesn't seem like transitioning should make it (more?) possible, but the mind's a hell of a thing.
*Hugs* I try to make longer responses, but I got all worked up at the spoiler... :/
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2012-02-29, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I've expressed myself poorly indeed. I do not mean to call what you say dumb: I mean, if perceived danger of rape were the only argument against public unisex bathrooms, that would be dumb. I apologize if I offended you.
To your final question: why can't that be the solution? I answer, why fix something that isn't broken? Or more precisely why break something that works fine? Accommodating the discomfort and indeed discrimination of transgendered people in the current washroom setup is about adding an exception to the existing system, not undoing the existing system for everybody else. If some single ones can be added to the existing segregated communal bathrooms, then we're in great shape.
To others:
Part of it, as pffh mentioned, is the excellent convenience of urinals which only really work in an all-male situation -- which by the way, conserve water compared to flush toilets.
The other part? I'm spoilering because there's just no way to politely phrase it.
Spoiler- it is also the part I am having difficulty finding the words to describe. Eliminating waste is awkward, yes indeed. It is a bodily experience to the extreme, even genital; and even half-hidden in a stall the sounds and smells it produces are all body body body and evoke the genital region. Men understand one another's bodies. Women, one another's. There's a kind of sympathy I can feel laying a bomb around men because of the shared bodily experience we have, that I just could not around women. The bathroom, even beyond its functions for waste elimination, is a space of bodyness. This is what I tried to express in my reply to Nix Nihilicious. The shared bodily experience among the sexes is a fundamental subconscious bond.
I do not for a minute believe posters saying that they would be equally uncomfortable taking a crap in a stall next to the opposite sex as they would the same. I really don't.
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2012-03-01, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Aww, shucks. I didn't think I said anything special, just what I honestly felt. After putting myself down enough, I've learned through kindness of others that the better thing to do instead of to lift others up when they need it.
Last edited by Rappy; 2012-03-01 at 12:04 AM.
LGBTitP
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2012-03-01, 02:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Better to know and have them never be around you again than to have it fester.
As far as how you tell them you like them, well, that partially depends on how well you know them and upon your current intentions with regards to them and interest in them.
You don't tell someone that you feel could/is becoming the best BFF ever this news in the same way that you tell someone that you're interested in finding out if a romantic relationship would work out between the two of you.
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2012-03-01, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Last edited by Skeppio; 2012-03-01 at 03:15 AM.
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2012-03-01, 03:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Eh, an argument could be made that having the local population of women who are at least slightly unhinged identify itself and thus eliminate the headache of potentially sleeping with one of them or, worse, getting emotionally attached to another such individual before realizing that being around them for extended periods of time would basically constitute emotional and spiritual abuse.
And if you let people potentially being [redacted] insane stop you from doing something, you're going to be paralyzed in this life.
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2012-03-01, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-01, 05:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Now, a dilemma I know!
What I can tell you is that you should just try. It is going to be worse to let go the person you love without telling them, wonder if you ever had a chance, and do the exact same mistake about the next people you like because you have the same fears.
How do you tell someone, now?
... ahahahahah. *embarrassed laughter*
In my case, my boyfriend asked me before I gathered the courage to do so. What he did was dropping a few hints over the course of the week before the day we'd planned to see each other IRL*, then asked me about that girl he liked he was going to see at the end of the week and how/when he should tell her**, and then, the day after, disregarded my advice, and texted me a message along the lines of "so I hope you understood what I was actually talking about yesterday, you can tell me you don't feel the same way, it's okay, I'm gonna be fine***". I replied that yes, I did feel the same way and just did not know how to ask him. He finally replied to insult me because I made him cry in public in his train****.
Don't know if that helps, but that's how things went with me.
*I was oblivious and thought I was imagining hints because I was desperate. I was also stupid.
** I was mega-oblivious and thought there was the possibility he wasn't talking about me, so I simply replied as honestly and helpfully as possible and told him to wait until he saw her to tell her. Did I say I was stupid?
*** No, he wasn't going to be fine at all.
**** Insulting each other is a much more affectionate activity between us than you might think.
Everyone here agrees she and her friends are [REDACTED], so I'm not going to linger on the part where I despise them.
I'm truly sorry about that. I hope that the affection you had for her vanished quickly. *hugs*Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
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2012-03-01, 05:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Those [Redacted] be crazy. You don't want to get attached to that anyway.
And rather than coming off as tempering my perspective with caution, you come off to me, especially given the mutually exclusive contrast I see in your two sentences here, as advocating living in fear or allowing one's self to live in fear.
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2012-03-01, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
"Everyone here agrees"? This is the first time I've brought it up here.
*hugs anyway*
I kinda did, since before then she was the first person I'd met who I could actually be a decent match for. Pity how that turned out.
If you simply must take it that way, I guess I can't do much to stop you. *shrug*
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2012-03-01, 06:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I hope the R and J situation continues to resolve itself.
Here, shower rooms, where they exist, are generally separate from rooms with toilets in. I am generally of the opinion that no one should ever have to shower in front of anyone else like seriously that's not okay. (I say "have to". It's obviously cool if you want to.)
You could have a urinal area in big bathrooms. Like around a corner.
I always have a moment panic if no one replies to me, in case I've done something wrong.
Okie dokie, I'm glad you don't think I'm dumb!
I don't think there's a special bond between female-bodied people. Everyone's different. I barely understand my own body.
Anyway, I don't think making this change would be breaking something that works. I think the current system is fairly broken. For places that have the space, sure, a female bathroom, a male bathroom and some unisex bathrooms works. But I believe the default should be unisex, not just for trans and genderfluid people (although I feel that the current catch-22 is a huge injustice to them), but also for ease of parenting (if you as a man are out with your little daughter, who is old enough to walk and comment but not quite old enough for you to feel happy sending her to the bathroom by herself, what do you do? You are getting judged like anything either way.) and caring (same goes double for if the person you're looking after is physically an adult), and hell, for those times when one member of the party is one gender, and goes into the bathroom and vanishes, and the rest of the party has to play that weird game of hanging around outside asking people going in to try check on them. And just because trans people, parents out by themselves with an other-gender child, people with other-gender carers and people who collapse in the bathroom are the minority doesn't mean we can push straight over them. So sure, in big rich places, let's have all three. But I want a society that prioritises the needs of those that are starting from a disadvantage.
Now seriously, back to that Andes essay! (Oh gosh I'm so behind...!)
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me
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2012-03-01, 06:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-01, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Oh. Doubtful. I mean, I don't even agree. For her to react like that when I asked her out, there had to be a reason. And I'm comfortably certain it's not "because she's a [Redacted]". :/
...I just wish I had a chance. But I'm reasonably sure the same thing will just happen like it did last time.
I should probably take this to the RWA thread, shouldn't I?Last edited by Skeppio; 2012-03-01 at 06:26 AM.
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2012-03-01, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
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2012-03-01, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
*hugs Astrella*
You've already gotten some advice here, but you could try the RWA thread.
It's generally a good idea to take people's words on face value in cases such as this. If nothing else out of politeness
I think Kender makes some excellent points. I wish I could add something intelligent, but I'm just gonna follow noparlpf's example hereSpoiler
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2012-03-01, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
PairO'Dice Lost: Honestly, I'd find it awkward if I found out that a pair of brothers who were both straight were able to discuss women and relationships with them without some level of awkwardness. And beyond discussing his relationship with you, what is there really to discuss between brothers about being gay?
Viz: Unisex bathrooms: The people who already have nervous bladders generally get worse around the opposite sex from everything I've heard on the subject, although, admittedly, it's not a commonly discussed subject. And most of the discussion pertains to couples in heteronormative relationships.
One thing that strikes me though is that urinals seem like enough of a sticking point that one sex would be getting disadvantaged, as just combining the number of stalls and urinals would have the same net effect and bathrooms are clustered together anyway, so there'd be only marginal savings on plumbing, and having relatively more toilets to avoid disadvantaging women would necessitate something like trough style urinals to compensate which are just demeaning.
Skeppio:SpoilerProbably. Though if you're that it's not because she's crazy and all of her friends are crazy, then you must then believe you actively did something wrong. Also, you're possibly putting too much emphasis on the [redacted], as that was just my simplifying the expression into the most vulgar form of the vernacular that I could think of in order to have a more dramatic effect while restating the idea with flair. Although I must admit, in retrospect, it could be both that and crazy in more or less equal measure, but malice isn't always necessary when stupidity or crazy or ignorance will suffice.
Obviously not much of a match if that's how it turned out though. I imagine you're of a much higher moral caliber than someone who would actively slander someone else to the point of encouraging her entire circle of friends to go out of their way to harass someone.
*shrug* I offered you an out. Admittedly, not an especially large and well-paved one because I'm a bit tired and am still confused as to your possible motives and angle here, even after we've delved this far into this series of events. Since it seems you'd be more likely to stress caution as to how you build up to the event and how you say what you've got to get off your chest if you believed that you said or did something wrong and brought down a pile of crazy on your head as a result. Rather than cautioning against making a reveal at all and implicitly advising that it's better to fester than risk alienation.
The risk of alienation bears consideration to be sure, especially with regards to romantic aspirations that are most pertinent to this thread, but that would suggest that you'd open with a tactic stressing the importance o ensuring safety and receptivity before even letting one's body language hint anything, or even advice on how to go about gauging such a thing.
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2012-03-01, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-01, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
You get used to rejections over time. There are basically three ways people have responded to my advances:
1. Tell me they already have a boyfriend
2. Tell me I'm a great friend and all that... (technical term: friend-zoning)
3. Laugh in my face and tell me I'm to ****ing ugly
Although that third response has only happened once. Amazing that it still stings after so many years... Now, when you've been rejected the traditional way to deal with it is by locking yourself into a room and listen to sad music. I can give recommendations if you want.
Heliomance, what Rappe said. Birchgrove, they keep the prostate. There are so many nerves down there that it's just not worth the risk. Must be a cause for some cognitive dissonance if a trans woman gets prostate cancer. Link: http://positivelyaware.com/2008/08_04/safer_sex.html
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2012-03-01, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
's okay. You've been a real dear.
I have that a lot; bit I feel ignored quite a bit often.
Well, it's more that I was feeling really down and could've used some hugs and sympathy but it sorta seemed everyone but Arachu and noparlf ignored me. :<
It still sends a very strong message of othering I think; it's still saying; everyone who doesn't fit into the system we have, you folks should go somewhere else.
*hugs*
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2012-03-01, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Sorry, Astrella. Nowadays, I just tend to browse the last page, and my brain only really registers a few things or subjects I can reply to. I'm not ignoring you intentionally.
*belated hugs*Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
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2012-03-01, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING IS ALL BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHERS AND SPECULATIONS. ALL GENERALISATIONS ARE ACKNOWLEDGED AS ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT HOLDING TRUE FOR ALL.
Honestly, if there's any change in this regard I think it'll probably be on the side of men. Because women are already terrified of pooping within earshot of others. Oh, the agony of the stalemate, where each person in adjacent cubicles is holding it in waiting for the other to finish and leave so that they might let 'er rip in private! I don't think the sex of the other people in there will make a difference, women can't poop any quieter regardless, no matter how they try. Hell, if anything, having men in there being even noisier* might actually help women to let go of this neurosis so many of us have about our bodily functions.
*I may well be falling into a stereotype trap there, though...The Iron Avatarist Hall of Fame!
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