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Thread: Young Justice (Spoilers)
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2012-03-03, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So, am the only one who noticed what they accomplished ? They weren't exactly trying to keep it a mystery there, they showed it outright.
SpoilerThey had stolen that piece of Starro that survived from the Atlantis episode with Black Manta.
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2012-03-03, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
SpoilerSimple. The needs of the many out way the needs of the few. the needs of a single person is not as important as the lives of thousands. With all the crap that goes on in the world on any given day. What logical reason is there for there NOT to be a superhero 24/7. Think of how many superman might save if he never spent any time as Clark; or if billy didn't go to school and just flew around as Captain marvel all day. There is no telling how many crimes and accidents that are missed when a leaguer is off the clock. A Constant vigil is the best way to ensure the peace and order for everyone...
The light really only has themselves as whole to blame
The moment the heroes got their hands on the helmet of fate, doctor fate's return was inevitable. The fact that he has only been active part time is really just part of the league's own desires. At any time when the helmet was used it could have meant the full time return of fate. If they really wanted to prevent doctor fate's return they would have had to make getting that helmet a priority, which it seems they did not.
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2012-03-03, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
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2012-03-03, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
New episode
SpoilerThat was quite good, and a creative use of Captain Marvel.
Maybe this version of Doctor Fate is just an arse. I mean, I'm no expert on the DCU or anything, and my exposure to him stems only from the other animated versions, but, this version seems to be borderline villain, whether that's normal for him, I dunno. 'Cos, y'know, forcing people to be his body is really kinda evil, frankly. And if he's going to do that, he ought to at least get himself put on one of the bad guys or something, since he's clearly able to completely and perfectly over-write the will of whoever's body, so he should have no problem with maintaining control safely. And even from his practical "world needs me" attitude, it'd give a net plus one hero. Unless he's so arrogant he thinks he's the only one the world needs; in which case, I refer to my earlier "arse" with a strong side-helping of "is actually evil, regardless of what side he's fighting on, or what he thinks he is" and he deserves as good a kicking as the rest of the villains. (And no, being fed-up with being used as a weapon when it suits people is not a valid excuse, were he to try that one...)Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-03-03 at 09:17 PM.
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2012-03-03, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Part of the deal with Nabu is that he's not human he's a cosmic being, and sees humanity as sort of this weak and precious thing that needs to be protected and that he's one of the only ones able to fully handle the responsibility.
Nabu's one of the cosmic forces thats allways been there maintaining the balance of the universe. But he can only take control of a willing host you have to let Fate in, though he doesn't have to let you out.
Oh and powers wise Fate > Starro unless the show's nerfed him and buffed Starro.
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2012-03-03, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So my latter statement stands, really then...! (And it sounds like he's only a dangerous few moral steps away from making that fatal claim that he's "beyond such petty concerns as good and evil", the mere utterance of which irrevocably proves the speaker is, in fact, evil...)
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2012-03-03, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Sort of though when i t gets down to it he cannot make that claim as being beyond good or evil. he's a doesn't have such opinons because he's not a mortal being and cannot take those steps because then he would cease to exist.
The Specter and Nabu had a fight spanning galaxies with each one tossing everything they had into it. Planets shook and it was the stuff of nightmares to those who witnessed it. actually killing Nabu was the whole reason the Specter got slapped down and forcefully bonded to a human host. Fate allways has and allways will exist He's a Universal Constant, and Specter removing him from the equation for a time was a biiiiig no no.Last edited by Devonix; 2012-03-03 at 09:41 PM.
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2012-03-03, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
'Good' and 'Evil' actually don't concern Nabu, actually, I believe. He is a Lord of Order, not a Lord of Good.
It just so happens that Order and Good usally coincide (and Chaos/Evil likewise, see also: Klarion).
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2012-03-03, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-03, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I suspect Dr. Fate is less powerful in Young Justice than in some other incarnations, if only because the Young Justice verse tends to power down the superhumans and bring them closer in line to original power levels.
While Dr. Fate seems like a trump card, remember that each time he's been used he's been hardly a win button. Fate was losing against Klarion the first time they fought, until Fate exploited the weakness of Klarion's cat (which was more due to Klarion's carelessness than anything else). When Fate appeared during the fight against the Injustice League, he dueled evenly with Wotan, even with a slight disadvantage with Wotan's preperation. And when Fate appears here, he required the help of the rest of the team to pierce Klarion's shield and his bind was quite easily broken by Klarion when all's said and done.
Fate will be more powerful now that he has a proper host, and he's probably more powerful than all of the individual leaguers, but he's not equivalent to all of them on his own. Remember, even when Kent Nelson held the mantle he had to team up with the rest of the Justice Society for the big threats. And Golden Age heroes are, by and large, not as powerful as modern ones.Visit the Chocolate Hammer IRC channel!
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2012-03-03, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Typically with fate when the Host is in charge he's weaker In the comics with Nabu in control he's shown far more powerful which seems to be how they're leaning.
Also those fights allways had some limiting factor on fate. IE a host body not quite used to magic, not being a fully willing host, or such as in the recent one with Fate's essence trapped between two planes. But yeah I agree he's most likely not as strong as his comics counterpart. But remember Klarion in this continuity is also a Lord of Chaos and as such is up on the same tier.
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2012-03-04, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-04, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Hmm, it was not a bad episode, but I felt a bit underwhelmed. I have to admit thinking "sorcerers... again?" and "Dr. Fate... again?" At least now we have a more permanent Dr. Fate around so the helmet won't keep getting passed to and fro. I thought the fight / action sequences were mediocre compared to prior eps.
SpoilerThat said, Zatarra taking Zatanna's place as Dr. Fate was very touching. I also liked Marvel's ability to go back and forth between each dimension... that was cool.Last edited by ThePhantasm; 2012-03-04 at 12:51 PM.
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2012-03-04, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I would love to see them telling stories about Zatara and remembering the past.
Batman can talk about him searching out to train with him and used the secret identity of John Smith
At the same time Superman can talk about the time he went to train with him using the secret identity of John Smith
And then they can laugh that neither of them knew that the other was training with him and Zatara kept it secret from both.
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2012-03-04, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
John Smith? Nah, Batman's alter ego would of course be Matches Malone.
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2012-03-04, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-05, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
this episode makes me very sad, think meg'an has self confidence issues? whoo boy, Zatana is in a whole nother league.
Also Lord of Order Nabu being a jerk ass is nothing new; he's always been this heartless and uncaring. I expect an epic speech calling him out sometime in the future. Maybe leading to the Fate most people remember, the man who wields both chaos and order together.Last edited by 9mm; 2012-03-05 at 02:55 PM.
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2012-03-05, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Hurm. I'm not sure if the Hector Hall Agent-of-Balance Fate is the one most people remember. At least for me, Kent is the Fate that sticks out in my mind.
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2012-03-06, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
True. However, despite the parallels to Zatara's death in the comics, the show has been building up the wearer of the helmet as much as the light conspirisy. I doubt we've seen the last of Fate; and attempts by Zatana to get her dad back. Also did anyone reconise the force bubble girl during the montage of "care for your young'ns" speech?
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2012-03-06, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I believe that was Rocket
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2012-03-10, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I wish the series had at least tried some kind of hand wave for how all of the innumerable plane crashes would have been thwarted due to the adults disappearing.
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2012-03-10, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-10, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I dunno, I think it kinda was better that they didn't. Like the parachutes in 1980s cartoons, it would have felt like far too much of a cop-out had they drawn attention to it, rather than keeping it quietly in the background. (I mean, the casuality rate would have to have been enormous, because I very much doubt that all the children in the world could be rescued by the superheroes. It's very dark, but I have to - for once - say that it is a realistic consequence of a plot that big and heinous.)
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2012-03-10, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Well technically... the planes that crashed would be mostly empty so strictly numeric casualties would be vastly reduced. That said quality over quantity. There's really no way to bring up how this issue without basically making it unacceptable for airing.
That said this episode I think would have been improved by not taking a cop-out, a very good dose of realism you ask me. Not that like they would really do it though.
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2012-03-10, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-10, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Regarding the new episode:
Spoiler
That seemed extremely pointless. Who builds flying fortresses capable of freezing over an entire continent just to knock off a 10 year old? Why wasn't there an organ bank closer than across said continent? It seems like the only point of the episode, despite some very minor and heavy-handed character development for Wally, was to show that Hugo Strange is crooked, which we already knew.
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2012-03-10, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
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2012-03-10, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
You. Are. Not. Thinking. It. Through.
There is no one to do this. We've got who... M'gann, Rocket, and some super-vehicles as flight capable. One of which needs M'gann to operate. For hundreds (if not thousands) of aircraft worldwide.
We are also fairly low on who else might be out there and applicable, given the case of Roy, from the source material. I think the only one supportable might be Wonder Girl who has been talked about off screen I understand. We can even infer Supergirl doesn't exist based on her cousin's actions.
The only solution is some variety of A Wizard Did It.
Obviously the adult side with all the adult pilots is just fine.
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2012-03-10, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
SpoilerI thought it was a really great episode. What i thought they handled really well is the fact that they managed to make me believe TWICE that wally had failed. Now that's some excellent use of tension building.
Things to consider
SpoilerFirst off this is a Queen we are talking about. Bumping her off would mean bringing an entire country under their fold. An entire country could more than recoup them for their losses.
Second, If they did not use such an elaborate distraction, that heart could have had the escort of actual justice leaguers. Instead of dealing with Kid Flash, they may have been dealing with the real flash, or superman. They might have even had a member or two watching over the hospitol as added protection.
Third, I might also point out that the effects of the fortresses knocked out the zeta tubes, which would have allowed the league to instantly transport the heart in just a few minutes.
And Really not every episode has to have a lasting effect and contribute to the light's end game. I mean like the halloween episode... that didn't have any real point to the larger storyline except for the character develop and the interests that the episode held on its own. This episode is no different. Character development for wally and a fairly well directed storyLast edited by slayerx; 2012-03-10 at 09:47 PM.
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2012-03-10, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Last edited by The Bushranger; 2012-03-10 at 09:20 PM.
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