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2012-01-27, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
It wouldn't be the only one to do that, Wild Stalker also double trades for no apparent reason. Sensei also gains a feature and then trades a bonus feat for it that doesn't exist at that level. So yeah, I'm just trying to make it work out as best I can manage till errata maybe shows up.
Not looking like I'm getting anything done today, watched a movie this evening instead of doing Rogue/Ninja research and I'm once again at my sick limits of staying up. Cold medicine didn't work as I thought and woke me up in the wee hours severely dehydrated to the point that it hurt to drink. Just going back to not using drugs and letting my immune system kill it.
Ninja does look like it can do some Rogue archetype exchanges, as I do know they maintain some features that archetypes can make use of, namely Uncanny Dodge chain. Scout, looking at you.
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2012-01-28, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Oh yeah, also, this isn't the only enhanced caster archetype for rangers, Spirit Ranger trades Hunter's Bond and Camouflage for Augury & Divination as spell-likes, as well as getting the ability to cast ANY ranger spell 1/day/4 levels of Ranger that he is capable of casting without preparing it ahead of time.
I'm also feeling somewhat better tonight, so I should be finishing up the initial sweep of the guide and then see about triple combos in the next post, as it's not looking like I'll be loping over.
EDIT: ...and done! The only thing I have to do now is add grarrrg's inputted Ranger Archetype and see about classes that can have more than 2 archetypes, which so far appear to be Barbarian, Monk, Ranger & Sorcerer, though I won't be doing Sorcerer a second time, since it only has 3 archetypes.
EDIT2: Changed the Broodmaster Archetype, at the suggest of Prime32's Archetype collection, as the book also directly calls out that the features are just tweaked to work with having more than one Eidolon, so that's not a major difference to exclude them from taking multiple archetypes. Look at that, Broodmaster Master Summoners, lots of weak creatures everywhere. It's like a Horde deck or something.
EDIT3: Forgot the Ninja alternate class for Rogues. Came to the sad, sad realization you can't be a Pirate Ninja.Last edited by Cieyrin; 2012-01-29 at 07:06 PM.
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2012-01-31, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
For fighters, Dawnflower Dervish (from Inner Sea Primer; trades Armor Training 1-4) can combine with Savage Warrior (APG; trades Bravery, Weapon Training 1-4, Weapon Mastery), or with Armor Master (UC; trades same as Savage Warrior, plus Armor Mastery).
Oh, and Gladiator, too.
That's the only fighter archetype i've seen, aside from Gladiator, that combines with anything.
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2012-02-04, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2012-02-15, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Redmond, WA
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Broodmaster and Master Summoner both replace the Eidolon ability, don't they? Shouldn't they not work together?
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2012-02-15, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
This is one of those RAW vs. RAI type things.
Strictly speaking, no they should not stack.
Intuitively though, there should be no conflicts.
Master Summoner's Eidolon grows at 1/2 normal rate.
Broodmaster gets a 2nd (small) Eidolon when it reaches 2HD.
Combined, it would get its 2nd Eidolon at level 4 instead of at level 2.
Note: It's still probably not a good idea to combine them, but it 'should' be possible to.
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2012-02-16, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
That's what I had initially. Prime32's guide changed my mind about it, as the features aren't actually replaced, they're just changed in respect for having multiple eidolons. Like grarrrg said, I wouldn't recommend taking both at the same time, due to having lots of weak creatures around unless you really want a bunch of gremlins or something.
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2012-03-07, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- Texas
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Can you actually combine Geisha and Archaeologist and still use the Tea Ceremony? "Archaeologists do not gain the bardic performance ability or any of its performance types", so it doesn't appear that the bard would be able to use the Tea Ceremony since they have no rounds of bardic performance.
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2012-03-07, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
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2012-03-17, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Roleplay is Important Alway come Prepared
Credit to the absolutely stunning Mavis Vermilion Avatar goes to the Amazing Ceika
I always Carouse, I never Peruse, it's much more fun to find things my way.
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2012-03-17, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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2012-03-18, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
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2012-03-18, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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2012-03-19, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
I might even go so far as to suggest a cross reference chart where you can see what archetypes combine with what. And mark the one's that are pointless (or near point less, Grenadier Vivisectionist,) differently with a note saying "While these can combine, it's not generally recommended."
Roleplay is Important Alway come Prepared
Credit to the absolutely stunning Mavis Vermilion Avatar goes to the Amazing Ceika
I always Carouse, I never Peruse, it's much more fun to find things my way.
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2012-03-19, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
On the topic of "can" and "should", can you blend the Dawnflower Dervish Bard Archetype with anything, and if so, should you?
Last edited by Silus; 2012-03-19 at 05:24 PM.
Awesome avatar by linklele
"The Barrier World" Google Doc
A post-post apocalyptic steampunk magitech Pathfinder setting.Spoiler
Awesome avatar by Akrim.elf and Ceika
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2012-03-19, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Given it trades out both Bardic Knowledge and Loremaster, which a lot of other archetypes trade out, it severely limits what it can actually combine with. The only archetypes available (at least according to my tables, which won't include any of the myriad PF Companions and whatnot) are Savage Skald, Song Healer and Sound Striker. Given the Battle Dance only affects Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics, as well as it specifically says that all other bardic performances work as normal, there's nothing wrong with and it can work quite well in combination with any of those 3. A Dawnflower Skald could be pretty interesting in emulating a barbarian of sorts, where the Battle Dance is her own variant of rage.
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2012-03-28, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Just noticed something relevant.
Monk Vows:
A monk who takes a vow never gains the still mind class feature, even if he abandons all his vows.
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2012-03-28, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Archaeologist and Geisha actually isn't a particularly terrible combination (at least, no worse than Geisha usually is) since Tea Ceremony is a mostly-useless ability anyway. The Tea Ceremony ability ends up being a dead feature, but the main draw of Geisha is the Diplomacy boost from Geisha Knowledge replacing Bardic Knowledge, and an Archaeologist can benefit from that as well as anyone can (and the other archetypes that get Diplomacy boosts all trade off bardic music, making them incompatible with archaeologist). Thematically it's kind of weird, but mechanically it's not a bad idea if you want a Diplomacy-focused archaeologist.
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2012-03-28, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Hmm, I guess vows are like oaths except that they always cost you Still Mind. I guess I can put that in as a restriction on Monk archetypes.
True enough, though the Tea Ceremony seems to be mostly a method of getting one of the Inspires to last much longer at a stint for 4 rounds of music per beneficiary. Nice if you want to be able to cast while an Inspire is going or if you want to activate a second song, since the Tea Ceremony doesn't seem like it would interfere with that, since it'll keep going regardless of what the Geisha does.
The Archaeologist also benefits from the free Scribe Scroll, as they're still a caster.
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2012-04-24, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Fl
Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Thought I should note the following subdomains don't overlap with changed features
Ash+Smoke
Freedom+Revolution
Decay+Growth
Storms+Seasons
Which is applicable to Clerics, Inquisitors and (except for the 2nd) Druids.
(OK, not technically archetypes, but close enough)
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2012-04-24, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-25, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Montréal, Québec
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2012-04-25, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
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2012-04-25, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
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2012-04-25, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Montréal, Québec
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2012-04-25, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
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2012-04-25, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-29, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
Alright, I got a bit bored this evening so I went through and made corrections, typically adding or removing archetypes that are or are not compatible, fully integrating the Nirmathi Irregular that grarrrg provided, marked which Monk archetypes are capable of making vows/taking Monastic Legacy, since they key off the same thing (Still Mind) and adding a new text edit to archetypes that, while possible, don't get along.
Adding another thing to the "Why did they do that?" file, Martial Artists still have Abundant Step despite not having any ki to activate it. Way to leave a dead feature, Paizo.
Oh, and I redid the intro to something actually relevant, since the former message was obsolete.Last edited by Cieyrin; 2012-04-29 at 12:44 AM.
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2012-04-29, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- Australia
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying
That's nothing. The geisha and savage skald archtypes are compatable.
You heard me. The geisha and savage skald archtypes are compatable.
"Would you like some rrrRRRRAGE! tea?
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2012-04-29, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: [PF] Archetype Combos: Doing all the work b/c reading charts is bloody annoying