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Thread: Skyrim V: Skyrim
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2012-05-15, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
I've actually seen two water arrow mods. One for just those where the torch can be removed, and one which deactivates the actual light source. I've got the first, works well. Particularly for dealing with lights too close to enemies to reach.
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2012-05-15, 08:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Do you wonder that Skyrim's thief gameplay is homage to thief (stealth, water arrow and backstab)?
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Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
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2012-05-15, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
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2012-05-15, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-15, 11:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-16, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Yes, of *course* it is. I mean, it's not like backstab ever existed before Thief, and what kind of insanity is it that a person who relies on stealing stuff from people's homes would need any kind of stealth? Real thieves bang drums outside the front door to announce they're coming in, as I understand it.
(Apologies if I broke anyone's sarcasm detector there... ).
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2012-05-16, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-16, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Sorry, I kinda felt that thief gameplay is like overhauled version of Thief game. So it is busted!
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Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
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2012-05-16, 08:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
It is racism.
But it's quite mild racism, he refuses to deal with the issues of the grey quarters while more important stuff is going on.
The only races treated poorly by Nords are Khajit, Argonians and Mer.
We've been over why I can't get worked up over that.
SpoilerThe Silverblood that comes to power is not in the Markath Mafia.
No seriously, he's not involved.
He's also more openly willing to go against it and fight corruption, as evidenced if manage to get the Forsworn conspiracy quest after the city is taken. (Instead of denying it and being a part of the conspiracy, he wants to end it post-haste)
And Igmund supported the Stormcloaks right up until the moment it became politically inconvenient at which point he became Imperial.
The Jarl of Dawnstar's only overtly negative trait is his complete distaste for anything Imperial, even retired soldiers. Which is kind of completely justified seeing as he has seen his city get completely screwed over by the Empire
Laila never says Ulfric will be a bad king, she just remarks that he may be doing this for his own ambition.
Brunwulf Free-winter is basically Lyndon B. Johnson meets Jesus, so I won't argue there.
In Winterhold the man has seen his town burn not once, not twice, but several times due to the mages having zero sense of right and wrong, nor understanding basic safety measures.
You mean apart from murdering civillian, torching farms, allowing foreign nationals in to the country to carry out an inquisition, religious oppression, cultural suppression, ignoring the law of the land, and branding anyone who fights the Thalmor an enemy of the state?
As I have stated before.
The Stormcloaks have the moral high ground here.Last edited by Opperhapsen; 2012-05-16 at 12:12 PM.
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2012-05-16, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
SpoilerWhen did he see it? He hates the mages from the start, and not counting things which happen during the College questline the last catastrophy in Winterhold was the Great Collapse - IIRC it was ~80 years before Skyrim. He doesn't seem old enough to recall that (not to mention there is no proof the mages did cause it) ;) At the same time a lot of the prestige and power the town had before came from the College's existance
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2012-05-16, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
How about the truce quest?
SpoilerIf you believe Ulfric burn down a village or imperials use false flag operations. Plus he "liberated" Markath from Forsworn (who were maybe sane back then and natives of Markath) and massacre any who did not join in his crusade on Bretons.Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
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2012-05-16, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
I guess discussions like this prove how the designers made a great job painting both factions gray. I consider this ambiguity one of the best things of the game, and it really sets the tone for the setting.
In fact it's telling that my character (a "paladin") didn't do any quests for either side. I am usually a perfectionist in RPGs, yet they made for compelling storytelling even when I chose to avoid a large part of the plotline.
I can't even decide for myself who's better. I was leaning towards Ulfric simply because it would have been a jerk move for the Imperials to have, you know, killed me, but his racist tendencies changed my mind. On the other hand, there's the tiny fact that the Empire supports the obvious bad guys...
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2012-05-16, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
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2012-05-16, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-05-16, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-16, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
...Torching farms? Murdering civilians? Which Imperials are these? I haven't seen or heard of them before. Maybe you're thinking of Star Wars? Poor uncle Owen.
Allowing the Thalmor who soundly beat the entire Empire (Okay, it turned out that Hammerfell was fine and that the elves were just really good at bluffing), not just the Imperials, during the Great War, to continue doing what they want instead of starting another war that they might lose, and lose everything rather than just the right to whorship Talos?
Hell! You could whorship Talos in Skyrim before Ulfric started making a fuss. Because the Imperials were totally and completely enforcing those Thalmor laws and all, coughcough.
The Stormcloaks really have nothing, aside from "GOTTA FIGHT THE ELVES" going for them, and the Empire's going to do that when they're more confident anyway. Ulfric just wants to be High King and try to start his own Empire like Tiber Septim did a thousand years ago. But he doesn't have Numidium, the thousand-foot-tall Dwarven killbot, to take out castles for him.
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2012-05-16, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Here's the problem with absolving the Empire of responsibility of these crimes: The function of the state is to exercise a monopoly of force. Simply put, you protect your people, or you're not a legitimate government. The Empire has given the Thalmor a free hand to wander the land, kidnapping, torturing and killing Talos worshippers. Ulfric challenged Torygg over his inaction in stopping the Thalmor. Torygg accepted the duel for the High Kingship, and lost. The Empire and then decided they didn't like the outcome, branded Ulfric a murderer. That's what starts the Rebellion. The weakness, duplicity and cowardice of the Empire.
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2012-05-16, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
The problem with your explaination, though, is that the Thalmor weren't in Skyrim in force before Ulfric started making a mess. The Imperials were supposed to enforce the No-Talos Law, which they did up to a point by removing the Talos statues from all the Temples of the Nine (Eight, now). There's no indication that the Imperials went hunting around for Talos whorshippers at all, seeing as they weren't happy with that law themselves.
And the Empire has no reason to respect centuries-old Nordish tradition legally, especially when it involves killing off what they saw as the rightful ruler. The Nords never managed a pact, as Morrowind did, in which thier traditions are given modern Imperial legal standing.
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2012-05-16, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-17, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Not weighing in on the whole Empire thing, just wanted to say that I keep seeing the title as Skyrim vs Skyrim. I love it.
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2012-05-17, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
I disagree. The best chance is an empire that doesn't sit on it's tail and do nothing, instead of taking it's legions and counter attacking now during peace.
If the Thalmor are so worried about the thing in Skyrim, let them deal with it. Then while they're distracted, smack them. The initial attack was a problem, because the Thalmor had the initiative, and the empire didn't take them seriously. Now that they know better, and they can have the initiative themselves.
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2012-05-17, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
The problem is that the Empire doesn't really have a force strong enough to guarantee a victory. And they'd need to be sure they can win before breaking the peace treaty and starting a war. Also, the Thalmor most likely won't engage full scale in Skyrim - why would they bother? Stormcloak victory means that the Empire will be weakened (since it loses the Nords and gets an unfriendly country on yet another border) and becomes an easier prey.
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2012-05-17, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
There are still smouldering ruins when you arrive.
The man's prejudice against mages would be less okay if they bothered to set up some kind of rudimentary security protocol.
They didn't before, and after the loss of hammerfell they most certainly don't now.
'tis complicated indeed.
The best shot the Empire has is Skyrim, not the other way around.
Militarily Skyrim would do better by itself, and with the loss of Hammerfell they'll be the only ones dying for an Empire that openly oppresses them.
The torching of farms is only spoken off, since the game engine probably couldn't do a house burning to cinders, but the murder, arrest, and mistreatment of civies you get to see first hand.
As for the chances of the Stormcloaks you forget a few things:
Hammerfell won their indendence, the Empire is legendarily incompetent (OH SURE WE'LL SIGN A PEACE TREATY THE EXACT EQUIVALENT OF SURRENDER TERMS AFTER KILLING YOUR ENTIRE ARMY, WHY NOT?!), the majority of the legion is Nord, and it's not just about the worship of Talos.
They let foreign nationals in to their home to kill and torture them.
And you know what?
Even if the Empire wasn't really enforcing the Talos ban, the Thalmor sure as hell were.
The Stormcloaks have moral reasons (Slaughter, suppression, oppression etc.), cultural reason (By Skyrim law they are the lawful authority), the matter of self defence (The empire struck first), and logic (Skyrim may do better alone, and the Empire is doing nothing to stop the Thalmor)Last edited by Opperhapsen; 2012-05-17 at 09:25 AM.
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2012-05-17, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
And magic is the only reason smouldering ruins could exist in the game? As I said - before the quest chain the last thing we know about that harmed the town and could be caused by the mages happened many years before. I think that if they did something, someone in the town would mention it...
And you know what?
Even if the Empire wasn't really enforcing the Talos ban, the Thalmor sure as hell were.
The Stormcloaks have moral reasons (Slaughter, suppression, oppression etc.), cultural reason (By Skyrim law they are the lawful authority), the matter of self defence (The empire struck first), and logic (Skyrim may do better alone, and the Empire is doing nothing to stop the Thalmor)
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2012-05-17, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-17, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
For the Empire, losing Skyrim is really not an option. With the loss of the Valenwood, Summerset Isles, Elseweyr, Black Marsh, Hammerfell, and the obliteration of Morrowind, Cyrodil has a grand total of four provinces left. Skyrim is one of them. More importantly, the High Rock and Orsinium (I doubt I have that name right) are on the other side of Skyrim. As is Morrowind, for what that territory's worth now. If those territories become isolated, they will be lost - particularly the orcs, who are frankly as popular as their god and will be crushed without backing.
The Empire loses Skyrim, they lose everything and might as well rename their nation Cyrodil, because that's all they'll have left. And they'll have no chance at all against the Thalmor.
Empire playing into Thalmor plans? Maybe, but only because the Thalmor set this up so that all paths suit them. Of course, they also lose either way - Skyrim will still remain hostile to them in either event, and Ulfric is very good at fighting superior forces and inspiring his own troops. But with the spine of the Empire completely shattered, giving up Skyrim would be the most beneficial action for the Thalmor that the Empire could take.
I still love the fact that there is one game in the universe where "Empire" doesn't equate to "puppy-kicking evil".Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2012-05-17, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
SpoilerThe Silverblood that comes to power is the head of the Silverblood family and the one who deals with their political aspirations, while his brother Thonar is the one who manages the family's assets
SpoilerHe's also more openly willing to go against it and fight corruption, as evidenced if manage to get the Forsworn conspiracy quest after the city is taken. (Instead of denying it and being a part of the conspiracy, he wants to end it post-haste)SpoilerI wouldn't know, but in that case I concede Thonvor is a better than Maven Black-Briar, though I don't know if the difference between him and Igmund is greater than that between Maven and Laila
SpoilerThe Jarl of Dawnstar's only overtly negative trait is his complete distaste for anything Imperial, even retired soldiers. Which is kind of completely justified seeing as he has seen his city get completely screwed over by the EmpireSpoilerWhile that is the only trait he exhibits during a brief visit, he is much worse. Several servants and citizens directly says he was a spoiled brat who never grew up, and another says that the inhabitants of Dawnstar go to Brina Merilis if they have any problems, even before she replacces him. If asked about how the town can handle dragons, Brina says it a dragon attack would be a complete catastrophe due to the wood, and that she is trying to get outside help to avoid deaths. Skald repsonse is that the dragons are Talos's revenge on the Empire, and tries to get more of his guards sent to join the Stormcloaks, since Ulfric's victory means the dragons disappear.
SpoilerLaila never says Ulfric will be a bad king, she just remarks that he may be doing this for his own ambition.SpoilerI know. That part was mostly intended to show that Bethesda really tries to hammer home that Ulfric is using his cause for personal gain, ratehr than actually believing it (they've got a child saying that she thinks Ulfric is a bad man and wonder why the adults can't see it for gods sake)
SpoilerIn Winterhold the man has seen his town burn not once, not twice, but several times due to the mages having zero sense of right and wrong, nor understanding basic safety measures.SpoilerHe holds them accountable for someething it's quite possible they didn't do and is a prime example of the prevalent Nord opinion that mages shouldn't exist at all.
You mean apart from murdering civillian, torching farms, allowing foreign nationals in to the country to carry out an inquisition, religious oppression, cultural suppression, ignoring the law of the land, and branding anyone who fights the Thalmor an enemy of the state?
That said your point about Thongvor has me wanting to actually complete a Stormcloak playtrough. I can understand where both sides come from, and most of my reluctance about the Stormcloak has been because of Brina Balgruuf and Legate Rikke*, and to a lesser extent Tullius and Brina Merilis. Helping a more competent ruler become Jarl would help having to lose them.
*You really need to try an Imperial playtrough just to experience Rikke's dialogue choices through out the entire quest-line. I don't think many Stormcloak players understand how much of a True Daughter of Skyrim she is.If my posts contain any grammar mistakes please inform me about it.
This is not sarcasm, if you're wondering
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2012-05-17, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
No, no there aren't. There's the old ruins of houses that were abandoned, and that's it, but...
...The Mages do admittedly have no idea Health And Safety means. Or collateral. Nutty wizards.
Skyrim that didn't just go through a civil war, maybe. Heck, not even then. The Empire still has Morrowind, High Rock, and maybe Black Marsh. The Argonians aren't really talking.
Spoken of? By who? I've never heard it brought up by any NPC. Heck, the one place that you could even try to claim that for is the farm outside Windhelm, which turns out to be mostly fine after the battle ends.
Murder ; What? When?
Arrest ; Derp? They're the law-making Empire that rules the lands.
Mistreatment ; Aside from the overzealous Captain at the beginning of the game, when?
Hammerfell hasn't won thier Independance since the Second Era. Right now they're just refusing to be part of the Empire, who can't do anything about it.
Yes, the Imperials managed to catch the Thalmor in the Imperial City and kill an army... After losing all of thier regular legions and going for the emergency conscription to replace thier losses. Anything that kept the war going would be the end of Cyrodiil.
Incorrect. Unless you're referring to the way that Imperials were Atmorans who left home a few centuries before the Nords did.
See above anwsers.
WHAT?
By Skyrim law the Moot still has to pick a High King, by legal law Ulfric murdered Torigg, the Stormcloaks hit first by KILLING the current High King, and logic.... ASDGHEWeHRSDRG. I'm not going to touch that with a ten foot pole.
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2012-05-17, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
The reason they haven't succeeded in replenishing their forces, is because they're busily fighting the guys who they use to replenish their forces, instead of telling them, hey, we don't like this either, lets get together and smash some faces while they're distracted. That's always been a failing of the Empire. They've been repeatedly trounced by small guerilla armies. There was a book in Oblivion, where a small king, I believe of Kvatch, rode out to engage the current emperor in battle, met him with a small force of cavalry and led him into an ambush where his entire guard was wiped out by archers and rocks.
The empire will never win a war with a clever enemy.