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Thread: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
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2012-07-28, 04:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I think it's more that you get a high reputation for helping people, so shopkeepers don't mind giving you items at a discount. At lower reputations (but not low enough that the Flaming Fist are constantly attacking you), they don't have any reason to do you any favors.
Besides which, if a shopkeeper is overcharging you, the Evil thing to do would be to steal what you need anyway. ;)
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2012-07-28, 05:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 06:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
The fact that there hasn't been a BioWare game where not falling into moral extremes isn't punished is a topic for another discussion entirely, yes. There is, however, a mod that makes Neutral characters approve of neutral Reputation. The lines are spoken by the original voice actors, even.
While having to pay more when your rep is low is stupid and nonsensical, it didn't really bother me. You get a lot of money anyway and plenty of the best items are found. So it's not that much of a problem. So long as they let me have a low or neutral reputation without jumping through hoops or paying gold to modded-in bards.Last edited by Morty; 2012-07-28 at 08:11 AM.
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2012-07-28, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I really don't think it is.
This is the official version. IIRC, the manual even mentions it as 'the hero discount'. If that is not enough for you...
Not liking something is one thing. Calling it stupid and nonsensical... that's a very different thing.
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2012-07-28, 08:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I know this is the official reason. I just don't think it's a good one. I also think that if it's easier to be good than bad, someone got something backwards.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-07-28, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
To be honest the reputation system just isn't very good anyway. Especially since there really isn't all that much of a moral choice system in place in the games.
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2012-07-28, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I agree. I don't know wy people find it so weird that evil characters get treated differently in game. If you're a jerk, people won't like you as much as if you're a nice guy. Seems pretty simple to me, but I've never really had a great desire to play evil for the sake of being evil.
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2012-07-28, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
It's quite the contrary, I like playing moderately good characters, but it's pretty much given, easy and uninteresting most of the time, getting 'good' is easy and rewarding.
Should be some challenge and sacrifice instead...
Being evil powerful character should be quite easy - you take what you want, steal and lie without feeling guilt, manipulate and use people... For whatever gain you want. Preferably by politics, it's most efficient.
Being "nice" or "jerk" doesn't really have much to do with being good or evil.
The game is encouraging you to be good. Why is that a bad thing? You can still be evil if you want to, with a small cost to pay for that. Most games don't even give you that choice.Last edited by Spiryt; 2012-07-28 at 10:33 AM.
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2012-07-28, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Contrary to persistent Internet rumors, the Assassin kit in BG2 has no kit-specific alignment restrictions.
(That is, you can't be Lawful Good because thieves can't; you can be any of the other eight alignments.)
This is actually in Baldur's Gate. People just don't realize it because it doesn't get a fanfare.
Several encounters--a group of Amnish adventurers, a self-proclaimed "legendary swordsman"--insult you but don't attack you. If you decide that insults are punishable by death (a distinctly evil decision, though one which doesn't impact your reputation) you get to loot them. If you don't you don't. There are multiple items you can only get that way; the Golden Girdle, the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. There are also multiple items you only get by breaking into houses and murdering the homeowners: one of the two Rings of Wizardry in the game, the Helmet of Glory...Last edited by Kish; 2012-07-28 at 10:55 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-07-28, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Well, the thing about BG's setup is that your character is motivated to participate in the story regardless of their alignment - if you're Good, their objective is to stop Sarevok, Irenicus and Melissan because they're a danger to the people of Faerun; if you're Evil, it's because every Bhaalspawn you kill puts you a step closer to godhood.
That's actually something I think BioWare does right: you can roleplay different characters with different motivations, and it holds together. In "Dragon Age", if you're a sociopathic blood mage who hates everyone, your actions in the game are entirely self-motivated because the darkspawn are a threat to you too, and you might as well throw an army at them rather than risk your own life, etc.
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2012-07-28, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Certainly, BG has a bit of this (armor from White Dragon and Human Skin also comes to mind), that's why it's a great game, but it even greater amount of easiness towards good, much more experience from most quests, lower prices, generally longer quests instead of ones ending in 'they're dead, hur".
Generally most quests are some kind of dogoodery after all.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2012-07-28, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
So, going back to the original question because I'm curious about this too:
Assuming you had a full party of six the last time you played BG1, which of the three new NPCs (Rasaad, Neera, Dorn il-Khan) are you most interested in recruiting, and who would you swap out in exchange?
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2012-07-28, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
If I play the Lawful Evil Fighter I had a while back - in regular BG1, without BGT - I'll swap Shar-Teel for Dorn. The original crew consisted of the Bhaalspawn, Kagain, Shar-Teel, Safana, Viconia (with Branwen filling in until I met her) and Edwin.
Last edited by Morty; 2012-07-28 at 03:50 PM.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-07-28, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
My sentiments exactly. :) (Well, Neutral Evil Sorceress, but that just means I get a romance too! )
Shar-Teel is useful on the front lines with the right equipment, but she doesn't seem to do anything in the plot - even with the restored-content mod, she's really only relevant to a single scene in the entire game. And given that she doesn't appear in BG2, whereas Dorn and the others apparently will... I think it's safe to set her aside.
I'm confused about Neera, though - the manual says Wild Mages are basically random wizards; is that actually helpful in a serious fight as opposed to someone like Edwin or Dynaheir, who will at least cast the spell I tell them to cast?
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2012-07-28, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I'm already wondering what class to pick for my PC. I've never played either game to any degree with a non-warrior, and I was wondering how that works out. I don't really relish the idea of playing someone who needs a good nights sleep after every fight in order to be useful, and I don't see how thieves are good for anything other than finding traps, opening locks and providing a bit of support in combat. But maybe I'm wrong.
I'd love to hear from people's experiences."Is this 'cause I killed the hippie? Is that even illegal?"
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2012-07-28, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Well, you know that old saying about linear warriors and quadratic wizards? That absolutely applies here. :)
Mages start out in a very weak position, not just physically but in terms of spell selection. You'll spend most of your initial fights positioning NPCs between you and the enemy. But as you level up, your spells will increase in both quantity and variety, and by the end of it you'll basically be able to manipulate the outcome of any battle.
Mind you, that's just BG1. Once you start hitting the level 8-9 spells in BG2, you're pretty much unstoppable. With the right combination of debuffs and a lucky roll of the dice, you can kill dragons with a single spell, before your front-line fighters even have a chance to engage.
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2012-07-28, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
In fairness, that's true of about half the NPCs in BG1. Possibly more.
I'm confused about Neera, though - the manual says Wild Mages are basically random wizards; is that actually helpful in a serious fight as opposed to someone like Edwin or Dynaheir, who will at least cast the spell I tell them to cast?
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2012-07-28, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Technically, 3 spells (though two are variants of the same thing). And with Greater Chaos Shield the Reckless Dweomer tends to work in your favor - if not by casting a 9th level spell from a 1st level slot, it does it with the beneficial surge effects. Though there is the chance something will go wrong... Still, it simply is fun to play with a Wild Mage - even if it forces you to reload sometimes (ie. my Wild Mage had an unfortunate surge in the Copper Coronet which made everyone inside hostile).
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2012-07-28, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Well, at that time I didn't consider casting a magic missile as risky stuff ;)
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2012-07-28, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
Well, in BG2 I often had Aerie, Imoen AND Nalia in the group. And while Magic Missile, AoE and such was useful I found myself mostly using mages for special circumstances. It seemed like anything I badly needed paralyzed or weakened would inevitably make the saves, and anything lesser could be chopped up easily enough by Jaheira and my monstrous PC. So it doesn't make me feel enthusiastic about a spellcaster PC. I'm only even considering it for the sake of variety.
"Is this 'cause I killed the hippie? Is that even illegal?"
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2012-07-28, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-28, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
I'll say that two Sleep spells are all you really need to pull your weight, though.
And there's no really good reason not to be a specialist mage of some kind to get your extra spell per level. Well, Diviner, Conjurer, Illusionist or Wild Mage, that is. The rest loses a bit too much to be really worth it, I think.
You can also just start as something else and dual-class later, though. A couple of levels of Cleric won't hurt and give you some fun stuff to augment your mage spells later.
Thief/Mage is fairly redundant, of course.
Fighter/Mages can get crazy powerful, no matter what exactly you do, dual- or multi-class. In a Tutu or Trilogy game, you can even start your career as a Berserker. Few things can seriously threaten to kill a Berserker/Mage without first wearing him down for a good, long time in which they are subjected to a raving maniac flailing at them in a frenzy, madly screaming spells of immense power out of his foaming mouth, eyes aglow with blood lust and arcane energy.
Anyway, since there was also something about Wild Mages. They are pretty cool. That extra spell slot makes them actually more forgiving than regular mages in my opinion. You do need a backup, though. Sometimes, that Breach or Detect Invisibility just has to hit right then and there, and even a 5% chance of screwing up is too much then.
Plus, they're always fun, of course.
Well, I think it could go either way. Might be an invitation. Might be an invitation that's also rigged to teleport you upon reading.Last edited by Johnny Blade; 2012-07-28 at 09:13 PM.
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2012-07-29, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
The problem with Imoen, Nalia and Aerie, though, is that they all have built-in limitations - they'll never progress as far as a spellcaster PC, especially if you start with BG1 and go all the way to the end with the same character. And by the time you reach enemies who can make saves, you'll have tools like Greater Malison and Lower Resistance which even the odds. I slapped Firkraag upside the head with a Finger of Death, it was marvelous. :)
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2012-07-29, 04:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition
dianakingston remined me of how killing dragons in BG2 is rewarding. They are tough cookies, specially when you first met them. When I saw the shadow dragon for the first time I was completely surprised. "I'm supposed to fight that?!"
In comparison, Neverwinter Nights had the wimpiest dragons ever. Then again, NWN is a walk in the park anyway. Why am I talking about it?