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2012-08-11, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
2012 Kickstart Pledge Drive Backer# 12,851
Their: a possessive pronoun like “her” or “our”
There: refers to a place ("the Kobold is over THERE"), or to indicate the existence of something, or to mention something for the first time. ("THERE is a Halfling sneaking up on him")
They're: a contraction of “they are.”
Also: Your/You're, Its/It's, Then/Than.
And... I believe in you.
—click!
C fl epefggj cd gpyb hcex jpz.
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2012-08-11, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?
Sabine is a thoroughly house-ruled succubus. She has never demonstrated telepathy and there is not the slightest indication that her speech bubble represented anything other than speech when she was desperately trying to talk to Nale and he was bellowing, "WHAT?" just now.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-08-11, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-08-11, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Not sure about the distances here, but as an archer i can say that in "normal" range a bow shoots pretty straight - of course, a maximum range shot will be parabolical, but i don't remember to see something in the comic where a max distance shot went along a straight line.
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2012-08-11, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
This has been a legitimate concern?
Except Elan heard his dad speak, and didn't recognize him then. So most likely Durkon hasn't either.
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2012-08-11, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-11, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
The chief concern of game designers should be to make a fun game for all of their buyers, not to ignore many buyers because FujinAkari is the only one whose opinion matters.
As long as there are gamers who know what longbows are and how they work, and who want to play a game with longbows that act like longbows, then a desire for a fun game includes some degree of historical accuracy.
[And a new rule shortening the range of longbows, thereby reducing the abilities of Fighters and Rogues, but not casters, does not contribute to balance.]
But my view of game design states that they should design for you just as much as for me. So I have to ask: why do you think a game with inaccurate longbows is more fun than one with accurate longbows?
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2012-08-11, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
One of the most satisfying and funny OotS strips of all time
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2012-08-11, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-11, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Even when you can't hear anything, the facial expression of someone who can't hear you is easy to read, and with the cue from Belkar's mouth movement it makes sense that Nale could piece together him saying "WHAT?"
Why do you think Sabine is ancient? And think you not that love is also a villain's motivator, as with Darth Vader, Marcus Brutus, and numerous vampires? For indeed it is a valid emotion for evildoers.Every rose has its thorn, that's why I prefer daisies.
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2012-08-11, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
This is a baffling argument. "I like games with superheroes, and you like games with gunslingers. Game designers need to please all their customers, so games should have superheroes." Is that about right?
Anyway, the "realism" argument was going on thirty years ago in the pages of Dragon, and it was just as pointless then. People wrote multi-page articles about falling damage and whether it should be calculated linearly or geometrically, then other people wrote multi-page rebuttals, and people wrote letters to the forum, and it went on forever.
Here's the thing: D&D doesn't simulate reality. There are games that attempt that, and more power to 'em, but D&D was designed to simulate heroic pulp fantasy. That means that "Does this fit with the real world?" is a fundamentally misguided question — the question should be "Does this fit the tropes of heroic fantasy?" In heroic fantasy, heroes can fall from great heights, dragons can fly despite the square-cube law, and archers can shoot longbows at point-blank range. Why? Because it's cool, because Legolas could do it in the movies, because D&D is about imagining yourself performing impossible feats.
If you prefer realism, feel free to house-rule it, or play a different system. But saying that a D&D rule is bad because it's unrealistic is as pointless as complaining about banking X-Wings in a Star Wars RPG or saying "Superman would've given Lois whiplash if he stopped her fall like that!" in a golden-age superhero RPG. It's not a question of realism; it's a question of genre.
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2012-08-11, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerIn one of the books, it is stated that Sabine is over 2000 years old.
And think you not that love is also a villain's motivator, as with Darth Vader, Marcus Brutus, and numerous vampires? For indeed it is a valid emotion for evildoers.
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2012-08-11, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Especially when Belkar effortlessly killed him, laughing, "Too bad for you I'm not a rogue!"
That all depends on which is more likely. That Rich will want to make a joke about Belkar being an obscure subrace halfling. Or that Rich will want to make a joke about the multiclassing rules and Belkar being stupid.
One of these looks way more likely than the other to me.Last edited by Kish; 2012-08-11 at 12:32 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-08-11, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Tucson, AZ
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Sorry, but that sounds like an awesome game, and I would buy it immediately if it came out.
For what it's worth, I don't think the previous poster was impugning your motives or saying that you didn't want to have fun. He was simply pointing out that in this instance, the desire for historical accuracy would necessarily make the game less fun. The same could be said about any damage model that wanted to realistically depict the way wounds affect people- if you used a realistic damage model, everyone in both parties would be incapacitated or dying within two rounds, and would need to rest for about a month to recover from their wounds, making rolls against infection every day. I doubt most people would find this realistic system as fun as the current one.
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2012-08-11, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-11, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
I certainly never siad only my opinion mattered, and I have to question why you are making up completely implausible arguments and attempting to attribute them to me. I'll politely ask you to stop.
As long as there are gamers who know what longbows are and how they work, and who want to play a game with longbows that act like longbows, then a desire for a fun game includes some degree of historical accuracy.
[And a new rule shortening the range of longbows, thereby reducing the abilities of Fighters and Rogues, but not casters, does not contribute to balance.]
But my view of game design states that they should design for you just as much as for me. So I have to ask: why do you think a game with inaccurate longbows is more fun than one with accurate longbows?
Historical Accuracy is well and good, but should (nearly) never be the standard. The standard of a game is fun, and however you arrive at fun depends on your audience, theme, and setting. D&D represents a world of swords, sorcery, fantastical heroes, and mythic monsters. It is not attempting to be a realistic depiction of medieval combat, and therefore gamers who seek such systems are much better off looking for it in other games which do specialize in that.
D&D needs to look at whether a given mechanic is fair within the system. If so, and that mechanic is historically accurate... well whoop-de-do. If not, then thats fine. D&D makes no promises towards historical accuracy, and so they simply need to focus on balance and enjoyability. Simply plugging in real numbers and letting the game be as broken as it falls because is absolutely atrocious game design.Last edited by FujinAkari; 2012-08-11 at 01:01 PM.
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-08-11, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Probably should put this in the Belkar will die because... thread so I apologize but what about this hypothesis:
Nale was successful in the Suggestion spell and that spell remains in effect after the deafness of the Holy Word spell wears off.
Nale reissues the Kill the Dwarf command and now Belkar is forced into compliance.
None of the OoTS know of this spell and think that it's just Belkar finally giving in to his Chaotic Evilness and they intercede on Durkon's behalf to keep him from getting dead.
During that melee Durkon could be killed as could Belkar (heck, Malack could even show up and coup de grace Belkar for seeing him kill Durkon) but the OoTS would refuse to resurrect Belkar because he 'Finally showed his true colors' and none of the Linear Guild or anyone else would attempt to convince them otherwise.
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2012-08-11, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by 3.5 SRDOfficial Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-08-11, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Ach. Guess I was wrong in a couple of places. Here's Haley with an arcing shot: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0059.html
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2012-08-11, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Listening is a Wisdom based skill. As Durkon is a middle-upper level cleric (WIS casting stat) with at least three (possibly four) level based stat adds and quite possibly magic items that augment his Wisdom further, I would guess that Durkon has an extra +6 or +7 on his Listen roll as opposed to Elan (who probably has a Wisdom no higher than 8 from observation over the years). Also, Elan only heard that one sentence at close range while Durkon heard several in a short period. This all assumes that neither man invested skill points in Listen--a reasonable assumption also based on observation.
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2012-08-11, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Actually, the combat system of DnD was originally a minatures wargame system. TSR had a set of minatures rules for medieval warfare, and they got the idea to add fantasy elements, and the RPG as we know it was born. So originally, the combat system was supposed to simulate reality.
Of course, we're a long way from original DnD at this point.
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2012-08-11, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
The last sentence there seems a non-sequitur.
Originally, the combat system was supposed to be a wargame, with perfectly balanced sides and considerably less concern with verisimilitude than modern D&D possesses. I wish you much luck finding a wargame that simulates reality, or tries to very hard.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-08-11, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, Chainmail was a long way from trying to simulate reality at the time, though. IIRC, figures were healthy, wounded, or dead, and that was that, for instance. Magic spells were introduced to simulate artillery (fireball) and rifles (lightning bolt). The super-fiddly tabletop miniature simulations came later.
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2012-08-11, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Regarding the longbow discussion, can I just bring up the catgirl point once again? Just... just sayin'. (Also, remember that houserules are easy and almost painless to make, if it's really bothering you that much, Jay R.)
Fair point. Though as others have said, Durkon's heard several lines instead of just one, and lines that are... more displaying of personality than the one Elan heard, and Durkon likely has a higher Listen bonus anyway. So I'll still stick with Roy knowing who Tarquin is by the end of this current battle.
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2012-08-11, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?
While you're right that those last few lines were a bit odd, not having a speech bubble, considering that Nale didn't react in any way consistent with actually hearing them, I think that was just a side effect of Sabine being forcibly banished from the Material Plane.
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2012-08-11, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II