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Thread: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
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2013-03-06, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I second Amechra's statement. I DMed a game from back when you still had pictures up, and my group loved them. Now this is spiralling out way further from what it was, and...I dunno, my group liked the older ones better (the old campaign ended before the pictures were removed, sorry for the vague time-references, I don't remember exactly when it was)
"Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation of the first link on one memorable day" --Charles Dickens
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2013-03-06, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I won't be removing any old versions from the compendium, don't worry. I recognize that not everyone is going to be thrilled with every change, and I'll do my best to respect that. You can see, if you scroll down, that I've kept outdated archetypes around for archival purposes. I would do so with classes as well.
And don't jump to conclusions just yet. I haven't decided whether or not I'm going to change anything major at all, let alone overhaul the system. I'm just kicking ideas around for expansion.
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2013-03-07, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Awesome.
This made me think of something, though (and I seem to be in a verbose mood): do you know what game designers hate the most about their jobs?
Finishing.
Because, you see, when you finish a project, you can't get all of it done. You just can't. There are quest lines that, despite being the coolest thing ever, don't connect with the plot, or are too buggy, or would take too long to implement. There are character designs that would be amazing, if they could only revamp the lighting engine to allow this in a timely manner. They had the amazing minion feature planned and halfway programmed, but the deadline shifted up to make room for a German localization team to work their magic. They can't make it perfect. And this hurts. Because when you see a great game? They see one that could have been perfect, if they could have done everything. This is the reason why so many modding projects fall through: they are doing this for fun, so there's no reason to cut off development and just ship the dang thing. So the programmers and designers fiddle with this and that, tweaking and perfecting, and never actually finish.
You might want to set an end-goal for yourself. You can always make "expansions", adding in this type of class or that kind of feature. But sooner or later, you will need to call the project done. Call it the core project, maybe, with just the skilled, the magical, and the combatitive. Leave aside the Warlocks, the Meldshapers, the Psionics, the races. Leave the Prestige Feats to others (hopefully me, I do look forward to making them). But you need a stable core to build around. You have a very small one, with the E6 and the archetypes. But you had that at the start. I'm not saying you should rush: feel free to set the end goal in 2 years. But you should start planning for the end.
Hopefully I didn't make you angry at all. The above is just what I'd suggest to make sure that your project survives.LGBTA+itP
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2013-03-07, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
That doesn't make me angry at all. In fact, it encapsulates almost exactly my feelings on the subject, as I was musing on it earlier today. I don't want to be finished. But you're right, I do have to "finish" a core. I can build on that, build around it, introduce new classes, archetypes, subsystems, and feats, but I do have to have a finished block of core material with which to do so.
I think a core 15 classes is the number to shoot for (even that is very generous compared to 3.5's 11). I've already got that, if you consider the psionic classes to be an expansion. They need some work, true, but they're a good base to work with. I'm not going to throw them out. The only one that truly feels like it doesn't fit is the Engineer, with its own major subsystem and unique mechanics. But on the other hand, that's the class I'm the most proud of, because I think it is unique. And I think with the popularity of the Artificer, the archetype has a lot of traction, perhaps even enough to include it in core. I also regret not having a base Barbarian class, because I know that's a very popular archetype that gets short shrift here.
So I may alter things a bit. There are so many fiddly mechanics, like Hunter traps and Zealot auras and inventions and minions, and sometimes that strikes me as inelegant. I guess what I wanted out of my proposed revisions was a unifying mechanic. Vancian spellcasting is a unifying mechanic. Maneuvers are a unifying mechanic. Skill tricks are a unifying mechanic (sort of). That's what I was shooting for. But maybe you're right; maybe I should embrace the quirkiness as an advantage, not a problem.Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-07 at 02:15 AM.
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2013-03-07, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Since you didn't build a unifying mechanic into the system in the first place, you might want to embrace the quirkiness. The amount of revision necessary to ret-con one into the system is probably not worth it if the system functions well without it. I personally find unifying systems to be more elegant design, but I do feel that things usually need to be built in at or close to the ground level for maximum effectiveness.
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2013-03-07, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Want to test your mettle in the Irorium Arena? Always accepting new gladiators!
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2013-03-07, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
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2013-03-07, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-03-14, 01:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
So I haven't really decided what to do with this idea, but I was struck by the "Punish" mechanic in the Black Knight thread. I thought it was very elegant, and it inspired me to come up with a new base class. It could be turned into an archetype pretty easily, though. Anyway, here it is.
The Blackguard
HD: d10
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Listen, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion), Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot
Skill Points: 4 + Int per level (4x at 1st)
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Frightful Visage, Punish +1d6
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Aura of Despair, Better to Be Feared Than Loved
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Bonus Feat, Punish +2d6
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Aura of Fear, Ravager
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Cower Before Me, Punish +3d6
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Dread Warrior, Blood Feast[/table]
Proficiencies: Blackguards are proficient with simple and martial weapons. They are also proficient with all armor and shields, including tower shields.
Frightful Visage: A blackguard may demoralize a foe as a swift action.
Punish: When attacking a foe who is shaken, frightened, or panicked, the blackguard deals an additional 1d6 damage. This increases to 2d6 at 3rd level and 3d6 at 5th level.
Aura of Despair: A blackguard radiates an aura of unease and despair, out to 5 feet per class level. Any opponent caught in this aura takes a penalty on all saves equal to the blackguard's Charisma modifier.
Better to Be Feared Than Loved: A successful intimidate check by a blackguard does not cause the target's attitude to shift to unfriendly or hostile afterwards. In addition, a blackguard no longer takes a penalty on Intimidate for being of a smaller size than his target.
Bonus Feat: A blackguard may select a fighter feat as a bonus feat. Once per day, he may select a different fighter feat for which he qualifies and swap his current feat out for that one. For the purposes of qualifying, the blackguard counts as a fighter of his class level.
Aura of Fear: In addition to reducing saves, being caught in the blackguard's aura of despair now causes opponents to make a Will save or be shaken for as long as they remain within it. The DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the blackguard's HD + the blackguard's Charisma modifier. An opponent who successfully saves against this ability is immune to it for 24 hours.
Ravager: A blackguard who successfully drops an opponent to -10 hit points is filled with the mad rush of the kill. For a number of rounds equal to his Charisma bonus, he acts as if under the effects of a haste spell. This is an extraordinary ability. This ability can only be triggered by killing opponents who have at least half as many hit dice as the blackguard himself.
Cower Before Me: Anytime a blackguard would cause an opponent to be shaken, that opponent becomes frightened instead.
Dread Warrior: A blackguard may inflict fear on even the stoutest of hearts. Opponents normally immune to fear lose such immunity within the blackguard's aura of despair.
Blood Feast: Whenever a blackguard deals damage with his Punish ability, he regains a number of hit points equal to his Charisma modifier. This cannot take him above his normal maximum total.Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-14 at 01:38 AM.
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2013-03-16, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Hey,
Excellent work here on the whole and love the way you went about building this. I'm working on a E6 game with a setting built to it myself and a wiki for it over time and was wondering if you would be okay with me putting the classes and such there?
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2013-03-16, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-16 at 03:49 PM.
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2013-03-16, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Thanks.
Its going to be a bit (can't do as much typing as I want right now) but I definitely will do that.
The setting as a rough outline here is designed to be an exploration theme and I tend to a gray and gray morality. There is the old world which has a somewhat European feel - from there several expeditions have been sent and encampments made.
The New World (I need to do actual naming as inspiration comes :P) i set up with different races, tribes and goals all around. There's issues from between the different colonies, between the colonies and the natives, and the hidden groups there as well. Its designed to be more character driven rather then a single plot as there's all these issues going on and the pcs for it are one of many factions there influencing things - and what they do can influence what those other groups do and cascading effects.
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2013-03-16, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Giving the brawler's grapple archetype a constrict attack doesn't mean much, by the RAW a monk can already deal unarmed damage in a grapple. All that does is let the brawler do double damage when he starts a grapple.
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2013-03-20, 08:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Hey, big fan of this compendium. I love the archetypes for E6. I feel like they add the flavor that you would lose from prestige classes not being a large part of E6.
Now Arcane Archer is one of my favorite concepts though I hate the 3.5 class. I thought that it would fit thematically as an archetype for the red mage. This is a rough version and subject to revision and critique but I thought it would look something like this:
Red Mage Archetype
Arcane Archer
Bonus Spells:
1: Guided Shot, Arrow Mind
2: Hunter’s Mercy, Hawkeye
3: Dolorous blow, Weapon of energy
Capstone SLA: Arrow Storm
Lesser Archetype Power: When you use Combat Panache, you may make a ranged attack with a bow instead of a melee attack. If you have the rapid shot feat you may make two ranged attacks (at a -2 penalty to the attack rolls) and cast a spell as a full-round action. In addition you may use your intelligence modifier for ranged attack rolls instead of your dexterity.
Moderate Archetype Power: You may conjure an arrow of pure arcane energy as a free action that can be fired from any bow. These arrows have a +1 enhancement bonus. For each arrow you create, you may choose additional weapon abilities. As often as you’d like, you may choose Flaming, Frost, Shock, Corrosive, Screaming, Merciful, Seeking, Distance, Spell Storing, Ghost Touch, or Revealing. At level 6 you may choose two of the previous abilities.
Greater Archetype Power: You may expend one of your spell slots as a swift action to boost the potency of your ranged weapon attacks for 1 round. You gain an attack bonus equal to the level of the spell you expended and twice the spell level in bonus damage.Last edited by Darkweave31; 2013-03-20 at 09:45 PM.
"I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities... Quickly please, before they are out of range."
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!!"
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2013-03-21, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
If the mage archetypes are remotely based on MtG, as they seem to be, having the Green Mage be optionally Arcane/Divine seems to make a good deal of sense to me? Perhaps with Divine/Wis stat and Arcane/Int based? There's ample examples in the lore for both depending slightly on the setting.
And as I happen to like overgrown lizards, are dragons suitably overpowered? (They should be unabashedly OP IMNSHO. No sense to them otherwise. Like, dragon ~= elf caster, except it's also an ogre and not dumb. Class+race combo is a brilliant way to go about it definitely.)
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2013-03-21, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Quod tibi vis fieri, facias.Spoiler: Links to my content threadsAldhaven - May 27, 2010 and ongoing.
Aldhaven Rules and Homebrew (aldhaven.com)
Character Repository
Homebrew List
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2013-03-21, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
A bit of column A, a bit of column B. Definitely more MtG than FF (this may be why the Hyperborean still exists, despite it being wildly off-theme for the Blue Mage). But they also map pretty well to pre-existing D&D classes, if the wizard/sorcerer was split into a slightly altered beguiler/dread necromancer/warmage breakdown.
As to the divine/arcane split: generally I find this arbitrary and not necessary to propagate. I made them all "arcane" technically because none of them are overtly dependent on divine sources.
And I think dragons are pretty dang overpowered as a class. Enough that I would not use them unless in an all-dragon game, for example.Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-21 at 04:25 PM.
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2013-03-21, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Any chance you'll be adding a Thuamaturge archetype to the White Mage?
Lesser: Summoned celestial creatures or creatures with the Good subtype gain temporary hit points and a bonus to damage rolls against evil-aligned creatures equal to the White Mage's level.
Moderate: Whenever the White Mage casts a spell with the [good] descriptor he sheds daylight (as the spell) for a number of rounds equal to its spell level and grants allies in the light a +2 sacred bonus to saving throws.
Greater: The White Mage gains the companionship of an animal as a druid of his level. This creature has the celestial template and a pair of wings, allowing it to fly at a speed of 60' (average).Last edited by Thomar_of_Uointer; 2013-03-21 at 05:55 PM.
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2013-03-21, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
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2013-03-21, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I'd tweak the Moderate ability so that the White Mage can choose to drop the effect on a creature he has just summoned, and the Greater ability to let the White Mage drop the Moderate effect on his companion.
I make games.
"...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw
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2013-03-23, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Thanks! The archetype looks good, though I think the moderate ability could use some clarification (can you put ranged-only enhancements on ammunition? I thought you could only put them on the bow/sling/whatever). I might tone it down to just Flaming, Frost, and Shock myself.
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2013-03-23, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Does the Sentinel's Landsknecht archetype allow it to set any weapon against charge for double damage?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2013-03-23, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
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2013-03-23, 09:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Reach weapons that can be set against charge is a shorter list than you'd first think. Non-dwarves will have to settle for longspear or get EWP, but then again, this is E6, so the feats are less scarce.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, but I really like what you've done here.Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2013-03-24, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Hey Gnorman buddy, just reading through your nice little rogue generic class, and saw this tidbit:
Moderate Archetype Power: An artificer reduces any requirements for crafting (be it time, experience points, or gold pieces), by a percentage equal to five times his Intelligence modifier (provided that it is positive). This ability stacks with similar feats. In addition, any splash weapons thrown by an artificer have their radius and damage doubled.
There is an artificer with the Extraordinary Artisan feat (which reduces costs in GP by 25%). He has an intelligence modifier of +5. He wishes to craft an item, so his cost in GP would be either:
(A) 100% - 25% - 25% = 50% of the standard cost.
(B) 100% * 75% * 75% = 56.25% of the standard cost.If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
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2013-03-24, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
You found the hidden text! Have a cookie.
Thanks to The Stoney One for the awesome avatar!
Spoiler: My homebrew!The Bladebound Martyr!
Quasi-Elemental Genasi (Plus New Feats and a Subtype)!
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2013-03-24, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-03-24, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-24 at 10:13 PM.
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2013-03-24, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
My Homebrew Signature such as it is.
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2013-03-24, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2013-03-24 at 10:33 PM.