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2017-09-21, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I doubt he would have allowed this, though I've never asked him. I probably wouldn't either, though I've never been asked. intended or not it's pretty daft
That said, if the question was: I can have a staff and shield on my sorcadin, doing 1d6 damage, but can I carve it so that it at least looks like a double sword or something?
My response would be; "you could try that... But before you do I might mention that you've heard rumors about artisans who can craft swords into foci. Ask around sometime."
There is very little functional difference between a 1 handed 1d6 staff (not using PAM, which, lets face it, there isn't really room for in most builds anyway and quickened GFB is usually better) and a one handed 1d6 sword. It's almost purely style, and I'm very unlikely to tromp on style.
The only question that arises in my mind is with regards to one handed Dex swords.Last edited by Spiritchaser; 2017-09-21 at 08:22 AM.
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2017-09-21, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So. Nothing RAW then (Quarterstaves aren't Arcane Foci by RAW, neither are specially crafted swords, and ignoring that detail certainly isn't RAW).
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2017-09-21, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2017-09-21, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
quarterstaves are not arcane foci, however, arcane foci staves are quarterstaves.
so, yes, there is that RAW solution. Stylistically offensive (ergo focus swords) but legit.
EDIT: DMG page 140 for reference states: "Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff"Last edited by Spiritchaser; 2017-09-21 at 09:31 AM.
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2017-09-21, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Oh, thank you! I had checked the PHB but didn't think the DMG would have anything to say on it.
Edit: argggh, that still only applies to magic items. I'm not trying to be pedantic here, I'm just wondering if this build would be okay with the most pedantic, RAW abiding DM I run into it.Last edited by Saiga; 2017-09-21 at 04:43 PM.
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2017-09-21, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
It's a general statement with nothing specific to contrevene it...
For whatever it's worth there's a sage advice on it... though I appreciate that if the text in the DMG isn't compelling enough, the sage advice isn't likely to be.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/20...taff-in-melee/
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2017-09-21, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
It's specific to staves as a category of magic items, though. It makes no link either way to the PHB stave as an arcane focus.
I'm aware of the intent, I'm just annoyed tgat the rules don't say this.
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2017-09-21, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-09-21, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Here's another Sage Advice answer
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/11/focus-staff/
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2017-09-21, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2017-09-23, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I'm actually looking at building something similar, I think.
I've been looking through the Sorcadin Guide and I was very interested in DBZ and Corran's takes on DEX-based Sorcadins. I rolled up a level 1 Half-Elf Paladin with a Criminal/Spy background. Ability Scores rolled well with 13, 18, 14, 8, 13, and 15. Half-Elf racials boosted my scores to 13, 19, 15, 8, 13, 17 (ugh, so many odd numbers...). Proficiencies are in Acrobatics, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Persuasion, and Stealth. I will likely switch to Sorcerer at clvl3. I'm likely going with Defense fighting style (unless I go Draconic; then I will remove all armor and then Dueling is better).
I see a lot of love for Draconic (Fire) sorcerous origin for buffing GFB and BB but Draconic Resilience AC buff requires the wearing of no armor and Defense fighting style requires the wearing of armor. So it seems that wearing no armor and instead choosing Dueling fighting style would work best. Unless I'm missing something.
The original Favored Soul sorcerous origin (extra attack) with the Trickery Domain looks great with no big downsides. It looks like it plays well with the DEX-build. How does it stack up with the new Favored Soul? I haven't seen many in the guide comment on it. I know that the new one doesn't offer the Extra Attack but it does offer Expertise in CHA-based skills.
And then there is Shadow sorcerous origin. This looks crazy-nice as a DEX-based character, too.
I guess I'm just looking for a little more specific advice on this build. I think I will likely go Defence fighting style/old-school Favored Soul with Trickery domain.
Unless you feel there is a better option.Last edited by Mahl Arannis; 2017-09-24 at 01:18 PM.
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2017-09-28, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I just want to check something (and I apologise if this has already been covered):
This guide strongly recommends the Mirror Image spell even with only 8 DEX. I'm quite new to D&D so I am just wondering if basically we are disregarding the part of the spell which states that a duplicate's AC is 10+ DEX Mod (at 8 DEX this would make the AC 9 right?) because the spell is strong enough without needing the duplicates to survive an attack. Is that correct? Could anyone explain this to me in more detail. Thanks
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2017-09-28, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Basically yeah, in situations where you'd use Mirror Image you pretty much just care that it didn't hit you, regardless of losing the image.
You wouldn't use it on mooks and things with a good chance of missing your AC. It's for fighting the baddies with high attack bonuses and high damage.
Or if you really just can't afford to get hit. Other than getting far enough away they simply can't attack you it's as good as it gets until images get popped.Last edited by rbstr; 2017-09-28 at 06:31 PM.
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2017-09-29, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
This is the most awesome multi class I have ever seen. I always wanted to do it but was always told that I couldn't because I would lose Paladin class features upon taking a new class.
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2017-09-29, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-09-29 at 06:07 PM.
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2017-09-29, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2017-09-29, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Or DM's interpretation. Multiclassing is an optional rule, and fluff wise I can see some classes feeling inappropriate to multiclass out of or dip (Warlock and Paladin being the prime examples).
But I don't like multiclassing being allowed to only some classes. If your DM doesn't like the flavour of it, just don't use multi-classing.
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2017-09-30, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-09-30 at 06:16 PM.
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2017-09-30, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I missed everything between 2 and 5. Sounds like maybe that was a good thing.
I can see a devotion paladin who takes fiendlock levels would have to resolve some very serious issues before going back to paladin, but I can't see making a character irredeemable by fiat. It's at least mostly up to the player to decide if the character is beyond redemption.
That said, looking back on it, the last time I DM'd a warlock trying to redeem himself I did a poor job of it, so I can see how it's easy to get wrong.
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2017-09-30, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I agree. However I went with my DM. Mainly due to not being able to explain how my righteous paladin woke up with phenomenal cosmic powers that would for all purpose look like witchcraft, possession, or some other heretical action. All of which would ultimately cast him out of of the holy order.
Can anyone see a story that could?
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2017-10-01, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Sorcerous abilities spontaneously manifesting themselves are among the easiest to explain for anyone: it's in your blood, a heritage; ancestral or relatively recent. Something that you've always had but which had not manifested until some remarkable event (such as maybe going to the brink of death which is pretty common for any adventurer).
TL;DR: Sorcerer isn't something you have trained to become. It is who you are.Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-10-01 at 01:13 AM.
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2017-10-01, 02:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2017-10-01, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Pals these days aren't all super holy super strict - I would think that if a young Pal had a special dream where their holy god told them that ancient secret access to magic that lies deep in the young Pal's soul is going to be awakened, to give him/her a different and possibly better way to fight the good fight - that would be fine. Maybe not with older paladin styles that were very restrictive, but again, that old model has been thrown out in 5e. Except maybe devotion - maybe. Even that seems to have some wiggle room.
(edit, in other words your sorc powers aren't witchy - they're holy - they're a special line of power that your holy god is helping you access and is down with it - that should be fine)Last edited by Chugger; 2017-10-01 at 03:46 AM.
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2017-10-01, 04:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
And if you'd rather be a Draconic Sorceror instead of a Favoured Soul, Bahamut could be your god... that is probably going to be my fluff when I make a Sorcadin (might go with Stone if it is in Xanathar's).
Really, any sorcerous origin could be made to fit an existing god to get the favoured soul feel on any subclass.
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2017-10-01, 04:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I'm tempted to try a sorcadin, though I'm not sure I have the patience to go 6 or 7 lvls into pal and then start the sorc stuff. I'm more interested in going pal 2/sorc 18 - and will probably never get to high levels. Maybe. But probably not.
I'm looking at lvl 5 when I'd be pal2/sorc3. I have no extra attack - except I can Twin booming bland and possibly green flame blade, if the DM reads how it targets in a generous way. If not I can Quicken one and use one or the other as a main attack - or quicken some other spell and gfb the main attack. I could even quicken one and then twin in the same turn, if I read it correctly, but I'd be draining spell points really fast. If all 3 hit and I had slots to DS on each hit, that'd hit hard for one big burst round.
And then I could bb or gfb.
Do any of you have experience doing this? I think what I have to do is write one down, get out my dice, and just play through some sample encounters and see how it works - see if I like the mechanics of it.
I like the idea of getting the sorc stuff earlier and faster. Of course I'd miss the aura and some of the other great Pal abilities and powers that come after level 2, but I'd have more access to amazing Sor spells. Any thought or help would be much appreciated.
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2017-10-01, 04:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
GFB can't be twinned per tweets from Crawford, if your DM is one to follow those.
But the tactic of twinned Booming Blade + quickened GFB in one turn is really potent. I also thought about doing that with a DS on each successful hit for maximum burst.
I think I'm in agreement on preferring Pala 2 + Sorc 18. It just sounds so appealing (comes online faster, more sorcery points and spell slots), but I may be overestimating how tough it is in melee with lower hit points, no aura and no extra attack. Feels much more 'Gish' though.
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2017-10-01, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Just a small update. I had a lot of help from the board when making this character. We rolled stats so I was able to do more than a point buy would let me. Almost level 5 and so far a lot of fun. We have had a few party members have to drop out for a few months so I may have to go more pal than sorc. Most fun so far was wild magic. I know draconic would be better with a rapier dex build but for flavor and my char background, I went wild magic. Only surged a few times due to a lot of melee.
Fighting orcs and down to the war captain. I cast shield and surge. BOOM...I am now a sheep. ugh...but wait. I am a paladin so I keep attacking using deer stats for bite. Bit the first round and drew some blood. Thank God he attacked someone else. Second round a natural 20 and double damage. Bam! down he goes. Lots of laughs and set the stage for cringing the next time there is a surge. I know the board is optimization but wild magic is a lot of fun so far.
After I level to pal2/sorc3 I'll be back with some questions when I decide what the party needs. I know it will get tougher as I hit mid levels but this build gives me a lot of options
Side note: Anyone have a good mini they use? Hard to find a good rapier mini that isn't a swashbuckler.Last edited by rokko17; 2017-10-01 at 10:44 AM.
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2017-10-01, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I tend to use https://www.heroforge.com/ to build unique mini's they tend to be a bit pricy, but then you are getting a custom built mini.
They are good and they retain the paint well.
Here is one I printed and painted
Spoiler: Smith - Fighter/Rev Ranger
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2017-10-02, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Thanks. What I'm weighing is my dependency on twinning and quickening - and how, especially until I get more sor pts and slots - I'm going to be limited.
The first big change will be pal 2 sorc 5 - because then I can toss a lvl 3 spell. I like the flexibility of being able to melee when that makes sense - do potentially big bursts on a creature - or cast a spell if that makes sense. And I guess just using 1 GFB on paired badguys is okay if I can't afford to twin or quicken gfb.
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2017-10-02, 05:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure GFB with secondary damage edges out Extra Attack unless you've got some GWM or something applied to those hits.
The +Fire damage from Draconic Sorcery also helps when it comes online (which is the same level a Pala 5/Sorc 3 gets Metamagic + Extra Attack, so it seems on par).
I wish there were a dragon type that gave a bonus to Thunder damage instead of Lightning.