OOTS #991 - The Discussion Thread

[Gift Jeraff]

Why is Thor dwarf-sized and running from the troll?

[137beth]

That 'sub'text didn't feel very sub.

[Zarzar]

I've always liked the wonderful differences between the normal art style and the crayon style and how it impacts the storytelling. The normal art style is always the real thing, and the crayon style is only what the storyteller wants to tell the listener. It's never 100% accurate, but it's what the teller wants to tell his/her audience at the time. It was like that when we learned about the Gates; not 100% accurate, but given how storytelling works, it's all the truth that was known.

(Also, quick aside. Durkula had an idle curiosity; think about it. Before, when we saw him, it was all "Hel, Hel, Doom, Death, Despair!" and "I'll drain your memories and leave you a rotting husk. Like a professional." Now he is moustache-twirling and satisfying idle curiosities. I feel like this is a turning point. Durkula is changing more than Durkon...that's something to think about.)

[10d10]

Yay! More crayon drawings! Love it when Rich does this art style. Wonder how many more of these we'll be getting?

[Lissou]

That was my first assumption, and it still makes the most sense to me.

I didn't find anything odd about her not wanting to talk about it, but Durkon asking why makes me wonder if there's another reason that's going to be revealed... if so, I'm eager to hear it, but if not the story still works.

I thought that too at the very beginning of the page, but then when she also forbade her friends from telling Durkon, that's a bit different. Not wanting to relive it is one thing. Not wanting him to know is another. If the reason was grieving, I think she would have actually asked her friends to please be the ones telling Durkon so she wouldn't have to.

[colanderman]

He is nobody's sibling. He is not literally Durkon's biological uncle, he is an adult friend of his mother's whom Durkon has been raised to think of and address as his uncle.

Wow. Not sure how I missed this, given that I'm looking forward to visiting my own "niece" - my best friend's daughter - tomorrow :P. Thanks for the clarification.

[Miaow]

I love all the detail in the third panel, especially the picture and the "cave sweet cave" plaque above the door.

Now for some wild speculation:

Spoiler

Show

What if Durkon's father didn't die in the cave-in? Maybe he was buried alive with the dracotroll, and they couldn't dig him out without releasing the creature. Sigdi could be feeling guilty about having to leave him there. Is there any way that he could possibly even still be alive after all this time and that is why she never remarried? Probably not on that last part, but I don't know anything about dnd to know if it's possible.

[Keltest]

I love all the detail in the third panel, especially the picture and the "cave sweet cave" plaque above the door.

Now for some wild speculation:

Spoiler

Show

What if Durkon's father didn't die in the cave-in? Maybe he was buried alive with the dracotroll, and they couldn't dig him out without releasing the creature. Sigdi could be feeling guilty about having to leave him there. Is there any way that he could possibly even still be alive after all this time and that is why she never remarried? Probably not on that last part, but I don't know anything about dnd to know if it's possible.

D&D nothing, unless he killed and ate that dragon troll and mutated into a dragon-troll-dwarf that didn't have to eat or drink for years, he would have died of thirst and/or starvation a LONG time ago.

[Emperordaniel]

D&D nothing, unless he killed and ate that dragon troll and mutated into a dragon-troll-dwarf that didn't have to eat or drink for years, he would have died of thirst and/or starvation a LONG time ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can actually die of starvation/thirst as per the rules in the SRD - a silly rule, 'tis true, but it's there all the same.

[Ellye]

I'll go for the long shot and say that, nope, that is the story of how Tenrin died, and that Tenrin is, in fact, Durkon's father.

Durkon's mom doesn't want to talk about it because it was the time she lost her husband, her arm, and some of her squad; all in one day.

Surely there are some details missing, but I'll go out on a limb that all that we have been told is true. There are just important things we haven't been told.

Surprised me how many people completely ignored the fact that it would perfectly normal for someone to not want to talk about a day like that. She probably feels responsible for what happened, since that was her squad.

[Anarion]

Welp, now I'm interested in Durkon's backstory. I hope you're happy, Giant.

[Gift Jeraff]

So Sigdi's squad specialized in monster-killing it seems. It's possible she has slain a vampire already.

[rewinn]

D&D nothing, unless he killed and ate that dragon troll and mutated into a dragon-troll-dwarf that didn't have to eat or drink for years, he would have died of thirst and/or starvation a LONG time ago.

... and with THAT, we may have a plot point.
If you are trapped due to a battle, but don't die for days or (dwarves being very very tough) weeks later, is that "dying in battle" enough to go to Valhalla?

Hel if I know.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I just realized that Thirden doesn't have an accent like the other dwarves. Could it be because he's a bard and so has to have clear diction?

[Keltest]

I just realized that Thirden doesn't have an accent like the other dwarves. Could it be because he's a bard and so has to have clear diction?

Its difficult to tell, but I think Thirden might be a human. He is significantly taller than Durkon, who is at this point similar in height to his mother.

[t209]

Why am I feeling that Thirden maybe Durkon's dad instead of Tenrin?
I know Durkon's mom wouldn't cheat on her but Thirden's uncomfortable nature with discussion on sex might have something to do with it.
Either that or just overreaction.

[TurboGhast]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can actually die of starvation/thirst as per the rules in the SRD - a silly rule, 'tis true, but it's there all the same.

At least a rule exists, so that crazy rules lawyer people won't try to "there's no rule for that" away lack of food, even if the rule isn't as threatening as it should be. And the rule is easily houseruleable to make it start killing you.

[LuisDantas]

You know, I just noticed something... between #962 and #991, it would seem that Sigdi has very much broken or lost contact with everyone who knew Tenrin before he died.

Seeing how the two of them worked in the same squad, that seems a bit surprising. Even the crayon part of #991 implies that they had a significant shared past in that force, yet Thirden implies that Sigdi is the only person available to tell Durkon how Tenrin was like when he lived.

Maybe Thirden is omitting the part of the tale that explains why?

I am guessing that Tenrin's family and friends turned against Sigdi after his death for some reason. Maybe the two of them came from significantly different social backgrounds and that is one reason why Sigdi does not want Durkon to think too much about money?

[HolyCouncilMagi]

But why would the monsters of Kraagor's Gate be terrorizing local villages? You would think that Kraagor would (1) not want villagers to be terrorized and (2) not want his monsters to leave his dungeon and wander the countryside.

Put me down as dubious that this is related to the last gate. Also put me down as dubious that Durkon can show the HPoH a false memory - but he probably can choose which memory to show, so if he got a more complete version from his mother at a later date, that would work as a way to manipulate HPoH.

But Kraagor didn't build the defenses for Kraagor's Tomb, Serini did. And while she wouldn't have done anything to endanger anyone on purpose, the original story of the sealing of the gates (which admittedly are easy to call into question) said that Serini wasn't really the type to retire, implying that if something did happen to let monsters out of Kraagor's Tomb, nobody would have been there to stop it or fix the problem.

EDIT: ... Which, now that I think about it, means that if this really has to do with Kraagor's Gate, it's almost unguarded for fifty-five of the sixty or so years it's been around...

[BrotherMirtillo]

I don't know if this was a long time after the last memory we saw of Sigdi. Durkon's beard-style is still the same, and there's no telling how many times he asked his mom about it between now and then.

Of course, I'm wondering why Sigdi didn't share this story. I'll agree that this isn't everything that really happened -- not that Thirden's lying, but that Sigdi didn't tell it all even to him. My speculation: the draco-troll escaped at some point and has been hunting the Thundershield clan for decades. I can understand blocking that information -- it'd be nice to say "your dad was a hero," but it'd be painful to say "our whole family is under a vendetta."

Huh. So do you think maybe that he wasn't Durkon's father? That might be a reason why the story was kept secret. I don't know.

But that's a good possibility, too. I'm guessing no, but only because I think Thirden's slip in panel 16 is genuine. If he's faking, then you're on to something.

The second puzzling bit: why would not-Durkon care about any of this? Does he suspect that anyone at the Godsmoot is going to ask, "Hey, Durkon -- what is your opinion of your dead father?"

And third: what's the pipeweed story? I'm kinda picturing Durkon slumped in a side cavern stoned off his keister and barely conscious until Hoskin found him and resuscitated him.

Bonus point: what kind of a name is Squeaky Thirden? (When I saw it in #958, I thought it was a silly nickname from tiny Durkon, but hearing an adult like Hoskin say it is a little odd.)

[The Giant]

Speaking of 958, did you deliberately lessen Thirden's dwarven accent in the latest comic, or was it an oversight from him only having one line the last time he showed up?

Deliberately. Thirden has more of an accent further in the past because he has intentionally cultivated better diction as he proceeded in his second career as a bard.

Is the Kandro guy/gal mentioned in #963 one of them?

Yes! I forgot I gave him a name already, so that's one left to name. He's the one chugging his beer in #962.

Bonus point: what kind of a name is Squeaky Thirden? (When I saw it in #958, I thought it was a silly nickname from tiny Durkon, but hearing an adult like Hoskin say it is a little odd.)

His given name is Thirden; "Squeaky" is a nickname on account of his singing voice.

[Lethologica]

But Kraagor didn't build the defenses for Kraagor's Tomb, Sigdi did. And while she wouldn't have done anything to endanger anyone on purpose, the original story of the sealing of the gates (which admittedly are easy to call into question) said that Sigdi wasn't really the type to retire, implying that if something did happen to let monsters out of Kraagor's Tomb, nobody would have been there to stop it or fix the problem.

EDIT: ... Which, now that I think about it, means that if this really has to do with Kraagor's Gate, it's almost unguarded for fifty-five of the sixty or so years it's been around...

Point of order, that was definitely Serini, not Sigdi.

Also, it's more likely that the dwarves stumbled into Serini's defenses than that the defenses stumbled out.

[Ardantis]

Excited to be posting!

Was Durkon's father's name ever mentioned?

EDIT: It was Tenrin. Found it in the crayon section.

[ahdok]

Well, that doesn't seem like a story you would absolutely refuse to tell a dwarven child who wanted to know... but we have to remember that Squeaky will only have heard this story second-hand, or maybe even more removed than that, and the truth of the matter may well be very different...

[Emperordaniel]

Excited to be posting!

Was Durkon's father's name ever mentioned?

Before this comic? No, not that I know of - according to this comic, it was Tenrin.

[LasVegasLawyer]

Guys. Remember.

Subtext.

why does Uncle Hoskin keep asking her to marry him, HM?

why, after all was Hoskin even there? if this was merely just a comic about Durkon's father's story, Hoskin wouldn't be here and mentioned twice, wouldn't be shown.

furthermore, Hoskin acted fatherly to Durkon in that scene, in the gruff "you keeping out of trouble?" kind of way that dwarves would probably subscribe to.

lastly, red hair is a recessive trait. its perfectly possible for Durkon to inherit his mother's hair color over Hoskins.

Hoskins is very likely to be Durkon's real father. In fact, I bet on it. calling it now: Hoskins is Durkon's real father.

Keep in mind what we know about Durkula: he's not good at making connections. It appears he told Durkon to tell him how his mother was injured / what happened to his father. So Durkon showed him a memory of someone telling him that story, regardless of whether or not Durkon later discovered that story to be correct.

[Keltest]

Deliberately. Thirden has more of an accent further in the past because he has intentionally cultivated better diction as he proceeded in his second career as a bard.



Yes! I forgot I gave him a name already, so that's one left to name. He's the one chugging his beer in #962.



His given name is Thirden; "Squeaky" is a nickname on account of his singing voice.

One last question, if you don't mind. Is Thirden significantly taller than most dwarves, is he a human with a beard, or are my eyes just playing tricks on me because were jumping around the timeline a bit?

[Porthos]

That 'sub'text didn't feel very sub.

That's because dwarves, even dwarven bards, are terrible at subtext. Even when they might be embellishing, as he might be here.

===

As for the story, I suppose it isn't completely cut and dried. But I do wonder how much we might be jumping at shadows here. Just as it seems to pat to say it's completely 100% true, it seems a bit neat to presume that Hoskin is involved.

Not much to do but wait, I suppose.

[The Giant]

One last question, if you don't mind. Is Thirden significantly taller than most dwarves, is he a human with a beard, or are my eyes just playing tricks on me because were jumping around the timeline a bit?

There's nothing intentional there. He's a normal dwarf.

[Edric O]

Well... I came here to say "I'm calling it: Thirden lied. His story is entirely made up." - but of course I see I've been ninja'd several times. :)

I don't want to try guessing what the truth about Durkon's father actually is, but I'm sure it's not the story Thirden told.

Also: Ooooh, the plot thickens.