Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XX

[true_shinken]

It's kind of...over. Probably my failing as sub-chair, but I just wanted a venue for people to post their rides. We have no judges.

I think putting it to a vote would be nice, yeah.

[OMG PONIES]

Judging is half done. Once I've posted it, I'll put the Pimp My Ride round to a popular vote of sorts.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Is there only the 2 judges for this round of ICO?

[Amphetryon]

Private Prinny is also judging.

[Akal Saris]

Actually, a pretty solid build for truenamer is Truenamer 10/Legacy Champion 10. You give up 2 levels of truenaming, but gain better HD, better saves, better skills, better BAB, and can modify your legacy weapon to have some very nice spell-like abilities like a 4/day Mass Heal. Makes a solid enough gish, assuming your truenaming skill is pumped high enough to auto-quicken an utterance every round.

The dragon build that never made it:


Siskus, LG Phrenic Wyrmling Incarnum Dragon 4 RHD/Binder 3/Incandescent Champion 10 (LA Buyoff 1)

I was hoping to use the Dragons of Eberron 'Wyrm of War' substitution level to trade sorcerer casting for swordsage maneuvers, use binder for either diplomancer (Naberius) or Fly-by attacks (Paimon) and use a +6 racial charisma along with Phrenic to have very strong incarnum-based melee attacks along with lots of psionic options like dominate, teleport, and direct energy damage. The result would have been a character that effectively uses psionics, incarnum, and the tome of battle.

The problem with the dragon build was that dragon HD gained essentia points way too late (young age category) to qualify for significant levels of incandescent champion. Also, the swordsage maneuver trade was illegal, because it functions off of a nonexistent sorcerer level (dragons without cleric domains like black dragons can trade their non-existent domains away, which is why the loredrake sorcerer trick arguably works, but the swordsage maneuvers are gained in place of actual slots). And then real life interfered before I could tinker around more with the build

[Dusk Eclipse]

Damn... that was a great idea; but IIRC the Wyrm of War gives you access to Tiger Claw maneuvers, not the whole initiator "package".

[Akal Saris]

Damn... that was a great idea; but IIRC the Wyrm of War gives you access to Tiger Claw maneuvers, not the whole initiator "package".

Yeah, it's a pity that the Tiger claw option is weaker than the fighter feats option :(

[Zaq]

One build down, five to go.

I'll be straight with you folks: Portal 2 is kiiiiind of competing for my attention right now. I swear that I'm trying. I've got the groundwork set out for a second build, but the devil's in the details.

[T.G. Oskar]

It's a shame the SI wasn't Incarnum Blade, because combining that with another PrC would have been awesome.

Still...I'd have gone for something that, while peculiarly weak, would have been pretty interesting to work with: Soulborn 5-6/Divine Mind 4-5/Incandescent Champion 10. That way, I could have gone for close-to-full BAB, two mantles and the auras to go with it (alongside five auras to go with it, three of the auras granting a +2 bonus), the potential for psionic powers, and at least one soulmeld. Divine Mind and Psychic Warrior could be alternated (exchanging one of the psionic bonus feats for Mantled Warrior) to gain more psionic power. Then, probably go off Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion alternated between the soulmeld and the class features.

Of course, amongst the myriad of problems was the insane amount of MAD (Strength, Constitution, Charisma for Divine Grace AND a bit of Wisdom for psionic powers), and that both Soulborn and Divine Mind start off very late (you start to get proper meldshaping at Soulborn level 8th, while you start to get a reasonable amount of manifesting at Divine Mind level 8th), so it was playing which thing to sacrifice, which would have meant pretty much going the rest of the levels on one class. Full BAB isn't much, Soulborn adds a nice touch with a bonus feat but the build would have been feat-intensive, and the soulmelds/powers I'd have gotten wouldn't have done a thing.

Soulborn 5/Psychic Warrior 5/Incandescent Champion 10 would have been better, though: three bonus feats (one Incarnum, two psionic), the Mantled Warrior feat allowing for an increased spell list (if chosen carefully), one soulmeld and 5 powers (including 2 second-level powers, meaning I could use Psionic Lion's Charge or Hustle), less MAD (decent Strength, Wisdom, not much Constitution) and nifty tricks to pull off (Power Attack + Cobalt Charge + Cobalt Power + Psionic Lion's Charge + Leap Attack, with Psycarnum Infusion to temporarily maximize one of the two incarnum feats). Still, the power would have come mostly from the combination of abilities, not from Incandescent Champion, and Divine Mind would have been thematically closer (Divine Aura + Incandescent Aura, for example). At most, Incandescent Champion + Psycarnum Infusion would have allowed for maximized essentia capacities on a combined effort in order to make insane pounces on a single enemy. However, aside from that, there would be little tricks to pull off (Power Attack + Hustle + Airstep Sandals from Shape Soulmeld + Cobalt Power + Incandescent Strike would equal quite a bit of damage as a full-attack action against a flying enemy, or Midnight Augmentation + Psycristal Containment + a psicrystal + Thicken Skin + Psycarnum Infusion to get nice AC without expending PP, or Midnight Augmentation + Psycarnum Infusion +a psicrystal + Psicrystal Containment to reduce the amount of PP I could use to augment powers, or Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion for "phantom PP")...

Actually, is Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion a RAW trick? That + Improved Essentia Capacity could provide a steady amount of power points per round to do what you feel like doing... Now that I notice, it would have been a nice trick to pull off, though probably not so elegant considering I tend to place one or two mistakes. Besides, it would pull around the same tricks the Psychic Rogue/Umbral Disciple pulled, except the shift between tactics (TWF vs. ubercharger).

[kestrel404]

I'm also working on a judging, but my between easter weekend and my wedding anniversary being yesterday, I'm just going to be starting it tonight.

[dextercorvia]

Actually, is Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion a RAW trick? That + Improved Essentia Capacity could provide a steady amount of power points per round to do what you feel like doing... Now that I notice, it would have been a nice trick to pull off, though probably not so elegant considering I tend to place one or two mistakes. Besides, it would pull around the same tricks the Psychic Rogue/Umbral Disciple pulled, except the shift between tactics (TWF vs. ubercharger).

My understanding is since they aren't temp PP, they are lost when Psi. Infusion runs out, and pumping Az. Talent again, just restores them, rather like putting on and taking off an [Item] of [Statboost].

I toyed with the idea of Ardent 10/Inc.Champ10, using Dominant Ideal for Hustle linked to Hustle, shared with my Psicrystal for a bajillion Foci/turn, and using Psicarnum Infusion to keep all of my Inc. Champ abilities at full every round.

[T.G. Oskar]

I toyed with the idea of Ardent 10/Inc.Champ10, using Dominant Ideal for Hustle linked to Hustle, shared with my Psicrystal for a bajillion Foci/turn, and using Psicarnum Infusion to keep all of my Inc. Champ abilities at full every round.

Hmm...if pulled correctly, such a build could pull a perfect score. I mean:

Ardent is already expected, but going with a counter-intuitive entry (perhaps Psion or Wilder?) could rack up originality points a lot (especially with a non-incarnum, non-psionic race such as a Dwarf, which nonetheless has a strong psionic influence). The Hustle/Psionic Meditation/Psycarnum Infusion trick could allow you to spend your PP at 3 points each time to have one of your powers charged at all times, so that would do wonders to Use of SI (given that you have an option to improve pretty much all class features and still have essentia to spare), the ability to get up to 7th level powers (based on how the Practiced Manifester trick is seen by the judges) through judicious leapfrogging of Ardent adds to your power (even if you're limited mostly to three or four mantles), and simple methods to refill your essentia capacity every round, combined with ways to recharge both fonts of psionic focus for eventual boosts of power and showcasing how incarnum and psionics play nicely together adds up for Elegance.

The only problem I see with the trick is as follows: you use your move action to recharge one feature, then Linked Power for hustle to recharge your psicrystal, leaving your standard action either to move or to make an attack (probably Incandescent Ray?), THEN having Hustle at the next round recharge your psionic focus on the next round in order to do what you want, so you'll be mostly alternating between expending your psionic focus twice and then recharging the next round. If you can end the battle on one or two rounds, there's little need to expend your PP in such a way to always have two receptacles full. Generally, you'll want to use Hustle + your move action to keep stuff like Incandescent Ray, Incandescent Aura or fast healing all charged up for the round, or use both actions to "boost" yourself once per round, with a standard action in-between. Going Dominant Ideal and Linked Power isn't that necessary in that sense.

[dextercorvia]

With Psicrystal Containment, with a little stat boosting for Hidden Talent and Psionic Meditation, your shared Hustle gets your Psicrystal an extra Focus per round, linked to hustle with dominant ideal means that for 4 PP/round, you get 6 Foci/round to play with, 5 if you need to take a Full round action, or use one of your moves for something else. Of course this relies on the reading of Psi. Containment that you may use the focus of your Psicrystal even if you didn't store it there. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with the Psicrystal.

[Cieyrin]

Back on the topic of truenaming, I think a good candidate for IC is Acolyte of the Ego. You have more controlled DCs, since you're only buffing yourself, multiple paths of entry and some fairly neat and modular abilities could make it a nice showcase of what your can do with truenaming without having to deal with the mess that is Truenamer.

So, what do you say? Who's with me in showing what synergy Truenaming can provide from the fairly unbroken prestige classes that are the true heirs of the beaten stepchild of 3.5 magic systems?

[true_shinken]

I'm also working on a judging, but my between easter weekend and my wedding anniversary being yesterday, I'm just going to be starting it tonight.

Congrats, dude.

So, what do you say? Who's with me in showing what synergy Truenaming can provide from the fairly unbroken prestige classes that are the true heirs of the beaten stepchild of 3.5 magic systems?

I thought about this already, actually. Might show up as a SI soon-ish.

[Amphetryon]

I thought about this already, actually. Might show up as a SI soon-ish.

EEP!

[Zaq]

A . . . Truenaming . . . Iron Chef contest.

I.

What.

Oh god, the rules disputes, they will be prodigious . . .

[true_shinken]

A . . . Truenaming . . . Iron Chef contest.

I.

What.

Oh god, the rules disputes, they will be prodigious . . .

I was only considering Acolyte of the Ego. Not much room for disputes there.

[Zaq]

I was only considering Acolyte of the Ego. Not much room for disputes there.

You think that now. Speaking as someone who has actually read the Truenamer chapter front to back more times than anyone at WotC, I would beg to differ.

I would love to be wrong. But there's hardly a clear rule in the bunch.

Besides, many of the Acolytes will be, you know, Truenamers. Oh god, the rules.

[Kuulvheysoon]

You think that now. Speaking as someone who has actually read the Truenamer chapter front to back more times than anyone at WotC, I would beg to differ.

I would love to be wrong. But there's hardly a clear rule in the bunch.

Besides, many of the Acolytes will be, you know, Truenamers. Oh god, the rules.

MY sister's only read through it three times, and she's read through it more than the editing staff at WotC.

Any they might not be truenamers - I can see a couple of builds using that feat that always make Truespeak a class skill for you, and then there's that 5 level PrC, the Bereft... there's a couple of ways to finagle around Truespeak.

Have we started with suggestions/ideas for the next ICO? If so, I put forward Acolyte of the Skin. Easy pre-reqs, rarely (if EVER) used, and here's the kicker: Caster level 5. That means every single caster in the game can qualify, including warlocks and DFAs.

[Amphetryon]

Here's my 21st vote for Rage Mage.

[Zaq]

Rage Mage and Acolyte of the Skin would both be excellent. Rage Mage because it's harder to optimize to use all of its features (in my mind, at least) and Acolyte because it'd be a lot more varied.

[Urpriest]

Seconding Acolyte of the Skin. Not sure what I would do with it, but definitely interested. Plus, the class's fluff means that you'll occasionally get new players interested in it, so it would be nice to point them to a few examples of how to get some mileage out of it.

[Amechra]

I'll take the initiative...
<Surge of Fortune, Charisma to Initiative due to Levels in Marshal, Intelligence to Initiative from 3 levels of Factotum, for a total bonus of +high>

Alright, I think I'll start up the appetizer-making contest.

[Tvtyrant]

If we are going the Truenaming route then I want Fiendbinder. At least that one has the potential not to suck.

[Thurbane]

I'd humbly request that we not have two "niche" PrCs in a row - incarnum then truenaming. Definitely in a future comp, but maybe not straight after.

I'll throw out a vote for Shadowblade...even though it's in the ToM, it's not ToM specific. Maybe a little too similar to Incandescent Champion (medium BAB melee type with special powers).

[dextercorvia]

Rage Mage would be awesome. I rather like the idea of a half caster trap class.

[Amechra]

I, too, support the Mage of Rage...

Or we could go for Blood Magus. Might be interesante.

[Zaq]

I, too, support the Mage of Rage...

Or we could go for Blood Magus. Might be interesante.

Eh, I dunno about Blood Magus. It's got halfway decent flavor, but it's fundamentally an 8/10 wizard class with nothing weird standing in your way (aside from the whole "must have died" thing, but that's fluff). Their few abilities that are actually interesting are 1) late and 2) 1/day . . . not enough to base a suite of varied builds around, if you ask me.

Basically, it's flavorful and suboptimal (both of which do indicate possible SI candidacy), but there's no real way to define yourself as a Blood Magus first and a Wizard (or Sorcerer or Beguiler or whatever) second.

Rage Mage still sounds like fun, as does Acolyte of the Skin. I like 5/10 casting classes as the SI.

[BobVosh]

I would love to see the stories for the blood mage, but as Zaq mentioned, the features aren't all that varied.

I would like to see a chameleon (the RoD PrC) IC build. Originality without hitting power would be most amusing. Or vice versa.