LGBTAIitp #48: For a cuddly tomorrow!

**Miriel** · 2014-02-16, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)

Hello, hello, welcome, one and all, to the forty-eigth iteration of our thread, the humble LGBTAI in the playground thread!

The AI is for All-Inclusive, because we have only so much space but everyone, regardless of orientation, direction, letter, acronym or chosen astrological symbol is welcome here!

We do, unfortunately, have a few rules. We are not an anarchical state! Or, we weren't until they voted we were? But shush.

1. We are primarily a support thread.
This means that the primary focus should be in helping people here feel better; about themselves, about their lives, about their problems. We are also an education thread, but when helping someone learn involves not supporting, we will default to support - Mostly. We are only mostly human, after all.

All of the other rules are basically precisions of rule #1.

2. If you want answers to triggering topics, spoiler-box or ask them privately.
Triggering topics are those which are likely to make other people feel bad, in any way whatsoever: for instance, rape, violence, bullying and many others may be triggering to some people. If someone, even just that one individual person, has a problem with a topic because it stirs demons best left in their pit, Do. Not. Bring. It. Up. Publically. Use a spoilerbox, and think carefully about whether this is the place to broach the topic at all (see rule #1: "We are primarily a support thread.")

If you have questions or need help on something that involves triggering topics, please use spoiler tags and label your spoilers for trigger warnings. When in doubt, put trigger warnings.

3. Avoid discussing politics or religion.
It doesn't matter how much these two topics intersect with our forum topic, they are verboten. Sometimes, hints are... Looked over, such as "man, in my countery being gay sucks", but detail is right out, and even that could be considered willful disregard. Be Careful. As the moderators themselves often say, if you aren't sure, Don't.

4. Do not discuss moral justification.
No one here is going to discuss whether or not it's Right" or "Okay" to be LGBTAEIOUsometimesY or anything else. It's not topical, it's not relevant. We are, and we are here to cope with that and with the stresses it causes.
And no, my joking acronym doesn't constitute considering this rule less important.

5. Do not opst sexually explicit content.
It's against forum rules, it's against decorum, and it will get us shut down pretty fast. What adults do behind closed doors is cool, and allusion is fine. Anything that could involve a diagram, though? No.

6. Avoid unfriendly debates.
Several topics of conversation have created huge arguments that made several people uncomfortable and defied our goal of being a support thread. This is especially true debates of definition. These do not always end well, and are best avoided.

This thread has a past of traumatic experiences which we would rather not repeat, and some topics which have created (in)famous rows include:
- the precise distinction between bi- and pansexual;
- what is or isn't a polyamorous relationship;
- whether transgender is more correct than transgendered.
(Other topics may be added to the list.)
Unless you need support or help about this, please refrain from bringing up these topics.

Also, if a conversation that is not about support runs long, spoiler it if possible, even if it is polite.

Glossary of Common Terms

And, for reference, here is a list of commonly used words and definitions by our community. Please understand that this list is currently undergoing construction right now. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.

Spoiler

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LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex+All Inclusive

Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by all - the name comes from the above abbreviation.

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has it's own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and Pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.

AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

Agendered: Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.

Dysphoria: The disassociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: A man who is attracted to men.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is not male or female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progestrogens, oestrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exculsively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Hetereosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.

Private Consultation.

We have a list of people whoa re willing and able to discuss topics that may not be thread-appropriate but are still topical. They can be reached by Personal Message (PM), thought they may not respond immediately, or may be on sabbatical.

Spoiler: Topical Consultants

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Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video)
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones)
Lix Lorn: General/basics
Eirala: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however)
Absol197: Gender identity issues
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype
Asteron Questar: Relationships, depression
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
Socratov: Skype-ness
Chess435: Skype
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting
TaiLiu: General Transgender information, transphobia.
Enrico Dandolo (Caroline) : Trans stuff, mental health, feminism, asexuality, hugs. PM first, Skype chat if asked.
Rain Dragon: Trans stuff (FtM). Lurks at the moment, but still available by PM.
Kesnit: Trans stuff (FtM), legal issues.

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means; this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!

And as a parting note, I will say that even though moderators do not read PMs, they are still part of the forum and still subject to forums rules. Non-allowed topics and discussion should NOT be conducted via PM.

Previous Incarnations

Like the Glorious and Unconquered Sun, we have risen, lived, died, and risen anew, with many faces, many voices, many hearts. In this past, much can be found, both good, and bad, should one be brave or perhaps, foolish, enough to seek it.

Spoiler: Past Threads

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Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.

Spoiler

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Venus Envy. Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix.As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you.An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. The LGBTA characters are well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. "What’s Normal Anyway? is a comic that discusses the trans male experience through the story of Mel, who takes the big risk of being himself and transitioning from female to male."
Princess. A webcomic.
Twokinds. Keveak: "It generally portrays GRSM matters positively and is quite a nice tale overall."
Misfile The Rose Dragon: "Ash is a young boy who, as a result of a screw-up in Heaven, gets stuck in a girl's body in a life he doesn't recognize, and has to deal with the changes and challenges of his new body while trying to get back his old life. Supernatural hijinks and car racing are involved."
I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.

The Brand New LGBTA Arts & Crafts Thread!

**turkishproverb** · 2014-02-16, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)

Hi again! *hugs new thread*

*offers cookies to people coming to it*

**Asta Kask** · 2014-02-16, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)

Yohoo!

New thread sighted! Get ready to cuddle!

*takes cookies*

**Jormengand** · 2014-02-16, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Yohoo!

New thread sighted! Get ready to cuddle!

*takes cookies*

*Cuddles people who want it*

Thread! THREAD!!! Yaaay!

**Lentrax** · 2014-02-16, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)

*sets out pretzels and cake*

So. How is everyone today?

**Asta Kask** · 2014-02-16, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)

Not particularly good, but that's par for the course this time of year. At least I have my cats.

**WarKitty** · 2014-02-16, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)

*begins duplicating self to properly apply kitty cuddles to everyone*

**Philemonite** · 2014-02-16, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lentrax

*sets out pretzels and cake*

So. How is everyone today?

Seriously pissed, gonna start biting soon.

**Jormengand** · 2014-02-16, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Asteron Questar

Seriously pissed, gonna start biting soon.

If you need someone to bite, bite me. I don't mind, and it's good to have someone to take out your anger on.

What's wrong?

**Philemonite** · 2014-02-16, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Jormengand

If you need someone to bite, bite me. I don't mind, and it's good to have someone to take out your anger on.

What's wrong?

People are really doing their best to get on me nerves today.

And as a cherry on the top my colleague is going to be almost an hour late.

I am working first shift, I worked double shift yesterday, and second shift the day before that.

I can't keep my eyes opened.

Also, I thought I had a huge deficit in the registry, but fortunately that was a mistake.
There was actually a little more than there was supposed to, so yay, free money.

**Mono Vertigo** · 2014-02-16, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)

[Insert here usual comment about the smell of a new thread in the morning, even when it's not morning]

Facing some... frustration(?) concerning a game. It's not a tangent this time!

Spoiler: Persona 4 spoilers, about Naoto

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I had so far managed to ignore the ending to Naoto's Social Link, where she finally says without ambiguity "I feel finally comfortable enough to consider myself a woman"; she only had a masculine lower-case persona to defy crappy traditional gender roles.
Now I found out, it bugs me a lot. Not entirely sure why. Maybe it's because it somehow kinda justifies retroactively several instances of disrespect Naoto suffered (blatant breach of privacy to find out her measurements, the hot bath fiasco, etc). Not that they're okay either way, particularly when you remember she hadn't "come out" as actually a girl to anyone when they happen generally. And revealing someone's measurements without their consent is vile anyway, whether they're trans* or cis, boy or girl.
Or maybe it's because Naoto was a sort of BF-expy to me (albeit in an "evil twin" kind of way*). That the character turns out to have been "just confused all along" rubs me the wrong way because of this.
In fact, it rubs me the wrong way, period. "See, she was a girl all along, she was just confused because of gender roles!"
All I know is that BF probably already knows, having completed the link, and doesn't care. So perhaps I'm overreacting, or something. Am I?
Meh.
Well, in my fantasy headcanon, Naoto is still totally a boy. Or agender.

Now though that makes that stupid argument I had with those clingy creeps in that con twice as embarrassing for every single party involved. You two, if you're reading this, I shall quote the Dude and declare that while you may not have been wrong, you were [REDACTED].

*Yeah, we were making very funny faces during the whole rescue arc.
Funnily, I also saw my "evil twin" in the form of Yumi, one of the Sun's social link. Her father dying while she was still in high school is the most major event in her life, however, while her story uses the same elements as those in my own life, they were twisted around. When I got tired of her whining even though she had a chance to say goodbye to her father, I decided I hated her**.
**It's not that being visibly depressed in that situation is bad, it's just that I felt like I was being taunted by the narrative. "Hey, watch her lose her bad father slowly but bitch about having the opportunity to tell him goodbye, and remember how much it still hurts to have lost your good dad suddenly! Oh, by the way, she has an Amazing Magical Protagonist to help her along and heal her scars faster. Not like you."

**KenderWizard** · 2014-02-16, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)

I feel crap too, all stressed and worthless... I hope tomorrow really is cuddly!

**alaalba_123** · 2014-02-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

I feel crap too, all stressed and worthless... I hope tomorrow really is cuddly!

Me three. Also, hai new thread. Hai people. I'm tired.

Also, on a happy note Valentines Day is finally over. So yay.

**Mina Kobold** · 2014-02-16, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lentrax

*sets out pretzels and cake*

So. How is everyone today?

*Eats pretzels and replaces them with danishes*

Swinging. Well, not in the "What a swinging day! :D" way, or the sexy times way... Shifting? Mood-swingy? ^_^'

Started out kinda sleepy and annoyed at some stuff in video games, then got moderately wanting-to-do-stuff with Star Trek (Watching TOS, turns out it has a more diverse racial cast than a lot of modern stuff (though Sleepy Hollow, Orange is the New Black and such do sound even more diverse on many axes), even if it's reeeeaaally obvious that gender and sexuality is seen from a particular perspective), then got all apathetic and down (depressingly common for me) before getting better and more "Yay! DoStuffFuns!" around the time it got dark. Hoping I'll stay here, but that's a bit rare nowadays. >_>

Also:

*Offers hugs, new pretzels and listening to Asteron, Kender and everybody else who could use them*

**Astrella** · 2014-02-16, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)

*hugs everyone who needs / wants them*

I got some nice femmy glasses yesterday. Well, I don't have them yet, they're ordered and will likely have them next week. The frames are pretty big, so you can see my eyes properly and they're nice dark purple that fades out towards the bottom. ^^

**Asta Kask** · 2014-02-16, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)

Why are we so humble in our thread-making anyway? Shouldn't we stand tall and proud?

**Proud Tortoise** · 2014-02-16, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)

*Drapes streamers over everything. EVERYthing.*

I like the number 48. For those who are uninformed about it:

48=2x2x2x2x3
48 is a highly totient number as well as a Størmer number.
It is a semiperfect number.
It is one less than 49 which is 7^2.
It is the atomic number of Cadmium.
It is the international phone code for Poland.

**Lentrax** · 2014-02-16, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)

So, all you people are making my cold look like its the best thing in the world.

*hugs*

**Akowrules** · 2014-02-16, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)

Yaaaaaay new thread!!

**Asta Kask** · 2014-02-16, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)

So I just learned a new term:

Gold Star Lesbian: A "Gold Star Lesbian" is a lesbian who has never had sexual relations with a man and does not intend to.

Is this really a distinction that's necessary to make? Or is it just a way to say "I'm more lesbian than you are"?

And are there really that many lesbian who intend to have sexual relations with a man? Wouldn't that make them bisexual?

I am so confused right now.

**Astrella** · 2014-02-16, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)

Yeah, it's a pretty ****ty term. It's not always used badly, but there's often enough a connotation of "I'm a truer / better lesbian than you". (Not to mention that's it's also sometimes used to be ****ty to lesbians who date trans women.)

**Moonwolf727** · 2014-02-16, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)

Welp, since there's a new thread I suppose this is my chance to stop lurking and actually join in again

**ArlEammon** · 2014-02-16, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)

Can I ask for PMs?

**Lentrax** · 2014-02-16, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)

You don't have to lurk out there. Just come in, put your feet up, have some pretzels.

**Mono Vertigo** · 2014-02-16, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)

If that's a thing, and people are actually happy it exists, then there should also be Gold Star Heterosexuals, Gold Star Asexuals, etc...
... until you reach the point of Gold Star Pansexuals. And Jack Harkness therefore becomes the only Gold Star Pansexual, for there is nothing and no one that he wouldn't want to have sex with as long as they gave consent. At which points he becomes the de facto king of sexual orientations, and declares Gold Stars [Orientation] is just a silly thing. Because if sexual orientation is a contest, then he wins forever, and if it's not, why try to make it one?
But mostly, I wouldn't be unhappy in a world where Jack Harkness rules over something.
No, I was not trying to make a clever point this time. I just wanted to imagine Jack Harkness as king of something and share the image.

**ArlEammon** · 2014-02-16, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)

What would happen if Vaarsuvius is a Gold Star Elf?

**Asta Kask** · 2014-02-16, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)

You mean "only has had sex with Elves"?

**Eldest** · 2014-02-16, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by WarKitty

*begins duplicating self to properly apply kitty cuddles to everyone*

*helps spread the feline hugs*

Originally Posted by KenderWizard

I feel crap too, all stressed and worthless... I hope tomorrow really is cuddly!

And you get one of the above! *hugs*

Originally Posted by Proud Tortoise

*Drapes streamers over everything. EVERYthing.*

I like the number 48. For those who are uninformed about it:

48=2x2x2x2x3
48 is a highly totient number as well as a Størmer number.
It is a semiperfect number.
It is one less than 49 which is 7^2.
It is the atomic number of Cadmium.
It is the international phone code for Poland.

It is, however, not a power of two, which makes my programmer side very disappointed in the number.

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

So I just learned a new term:

Gold Star Lesbian: A "Gold Star Lesbian" is a lesbian who has never had sexual relations with a man and does not intend to.

Is this really a distinction that's necessary to make? Or is it just a way to say "I'm more lesbian than you are"?

And are there really that many lesbian who intend to have sexual relations with a man? Wouldn't that make them bisexual?

I am so confused right now.

It's also a thing for gay people (Gold Star Gay) and no, I personally don't think it's a needed distinction. However, because a lesbian has had sex with a man doesn't make them bisexual.

Originally Posted by Moonwolf727

Welp, since there's a new thread I suppose this is my chance to stop lurking and actually join in again

*waves at* Hiiii!

**ArlEammon** · 2014-02-16, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

You mean "only has had sex with Elves"?

Well I hope so. He/She is married to one.

**Proud Tortoise** · 2014-02-16, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Musashi

If that's a thing, and people are actually happy it exists, then there should also be Gold Star Heterosexuals, Gold Star Asexuals, etc...
... until you reach the point of Gold Star Pansexuals. And Jack Harkness therefore becomes the only Gold Star Pansexual, for there is nothing and no one that he wouldn't want to have sex with as long as they gave consent. At which points he becomes the de facto king of sexual orientations, and declares Gold Stars [Orientation] is just a silly thing. Because if sexual orientation is a contest, then he wins forever, and if it's not, why try to make it one?
But mostly, I wouldn't be unhappy in a world where Jack Harkness rules over something.
No, I was not trying to make a clever point this time. I just wanted to imagine Jack Harkness as king of something and share the image.

XD This reminds me of the fandom discussion. "I'm a better fan than you bluh bluh"

Thread: LGBTAIitp #48: For a cuddly tomorrow!

LGBTAIitp #48: For a cuddly tomorrow!

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