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2011-12-06, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
Have you actually readed about WW II? Becauze the bad guys in there weren't just "exterminate all who oppose you". The bad guys in there would exterminate whoever they tought wasn't fit to live, regardless of them being helping or not, and by the end of the war were sending children against tanks while feeding cyanid pills to their own families. That's the scale of horror the IoM deals on. At least in 1984 you get to survive if you play your part.
Much of Krieg quickly fell to the rebels except for Hive Ferrograd which came under the command of the now infamous Colonel Jurten of the Krieg 83rd Imperial Guard. Under strict orders to not let Krieg fall but with the promise that no fleet on the scale that was needed to invade a planet was available, Jurten decided that Krieg would either belong to the Emperor or to no one.
So remind me, who developed the system where the departments that are suposed to offer suport answer to no one? Managing a million worlds may be hard, but managing a thousand chapters and Mars should be relatively simple. That's Adnministratum incopetence at its finest, pure and simple.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2011-12-06, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
Oh, definitely. Like I said, even Codex Tau barely says anything at all about where the Dawnblade came from, the idea that it is Eldar is purely conjecture based on what came in Xenology.
Xenology is, as far as I know, the only canon source where it is strongly implied that Ethereals are beings who are heavily genetically modified, and states directly that the jewel implanted in their forehead is "significantly similar" to an Eldar Soulstone.
That, and Codex: Tau's story about how the Ethereals came out of nowhere and united the primitive planet Tau being somewhat fitting for a "taken over by technologically superior enemy infiltrators", is pretty much all we have.
It is, however, a book that predates 5th Edition and a number of 4th Edition Codices - there's a strong argument that it probably isn't entirely canon anymore. And even if it is, like you say, it creates a lot more new questions than it ever answered
Originally Posted by deuterio
The Imperium would probably be a pretty nice place, without Ork and Chaos to worry about for the last 10,000 years. Whose fault it is has no baring on how good or bad a faction currently is.Last edited by Wraith; 2011-12-06 at 06:15 PM.
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2011-12-06, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The problem is, that the Tau are even more decenterlized then the Imperium is, their's no reason to believe that the action of one sept somehow makes a systematic thing, or even orders from the center.
Given the decenterlized nature, it is far from totalitarian, since due to slow communication orders from the center take a long time to get there and then be implemented.Last edited by Talkkno; 2011-12-06 at 07:20 PM.
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2011-12-06, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Totalitarian/=/Large state. Totalitarianism is at it's most effective really, at a small level, where a single person can reasonably control the entire operation (or, in the Tau's case, a couple dozen-couple hundred Ethreals on a planet). So what the Tau really are is a bunch of allied totalitarian realms with a very similar culture.
Last edited by Squark; 2011-12-06 at 07:28 PM.
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2011-12-06, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The problem is that the Tau don't exactly agree with each other100% of the time (See Kill-Team for a really prominent example of Tau disagreement resvoled in rather interesting manner ) on everything, so there's no reason to believe those incidents mentioned before are a systematic thing going on, to suggest otherwise is to say their is a improbable amount of coordination going on between septs that are only loosely beholden to each other and the center.
It is far more likely to be true to say those are isolated to a single sept and are blown out of proportion, as noted in Black Crusade, the books are written from the Imperium POV, and thus have in interest in making their enemies look bad, hardly the most objective source.
EDIT: I also find applying human standards of behavior to aliens who think completely different way from humans to kind of disingenuous.Last edited by Talkkno; 2011-12-06 at 07:44 PM.
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2011-12-06, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
True. I don't claim to be an expert on the Tau (In fact, I claim to be the opposite ) I was just pointing out that just because the Tau don't have a centralized government doesn't mean their citizenry are not living in a totalitarian society.
Also, aliens with non-human thought patterns are kind of an ambiguous territory. We won't really know how to deal with them until we find some and interact with them a good bit (If we find any at all). One reason they show up in Science Fiction so much; People wonder what they'd be like.Steam ID: The Great Squark
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2011-12-07, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Thank you so very, very mcuh. You've made my day.
Spoi-tastic.
Spoiler[I]Gilded Boltgun (Ultramarines)- not depicted but described as "dazzling"
"Raven Pattern" Shotgun (Raven Guard)- has a "long black muzzle" attached reducing flash and sound
The Shadow in the Sky (Raven Guard) "A long, curved power sword like the talon of a bird"
I assume I'm to make the Raven Guard model out of Mk5/6 armour?
Surtur's Breath (Salamanders) heavier, more bulky flamer
Salamanders Mantle (Salamanders) "scaled cloak"
Promethean's Blessing (Salamanders) "inverse heat sink, which uses the excess power generated by the motor of a chain blade of the charge of a power weapon to project flame along its edge"
Salamander's Mantle I've done a couple of times. Using Dark Elf Corsairs. The conversion's on the 'net.
A sword...On fire. I didn't think the 40K-verse would go for something that tacky. Especially not on the Imperial side. Ah well, if it's a canon thing...
I'll probably make a Mk.4 Marine, or possibly use one of the Legion of the Damned with the fire all over their armour.
Chogoris Lightning Blade (White Scars)- "dazzling silver power sword with a jagged blade crafted in the shape of a lightning bolt"
Duelling Tulwar (White Scars) "short, curved blade" - not a powerfield weapon
Power Lance (White Scars) - see depictions of White Scars bikers
Chieftain Trophy Rack (White Scars)
Easy.
Power Lance? Does it say anything about how you have to be mounted to use it? Ah well, I need to make a Kor'Sarro on Bike model anyway, and what better way than to have him be a White Scar anyway.
...I'll check my Dark Eldar bits, see if I've got anything there.
Digital Housing (Iron Hands) digital weapon in cybernetic limb, can be laser, melta or flamer
Recoil Baffling (Iron Hands) "compensation servos and suspensor cushions" for semi-auto and full auto weapons
I knew it. The Iron Hand is the Heavy, not the Engineer.
Rune Staff (Space Wolves) - see Space Wolves codex
The Magnir Runes (Space Wolves) "small stones inscribed with the signature runes of a Space Wolf Rune Priest"
Totem of Subetai (White Scars) "long staff adorned with a beast skull and a knot of coarse hair"
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2011-12-07, 03:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I'm sorry but this:
I didn't think the 40K-verse would go for something that tacky. Especially not on the Imperial side. Ah well, if it's a canon thing...Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-12-07, 05:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2011-12-07, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
That too. And stained glass windows in space.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2011-12-07, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I'm just thinking about the dev team making stuff up, poring over all the Salamanders' stuff they can find going all the way back to 3rd (seriously, FFG have done their research in a lot of areas, some stuff is lifted directly out of old Codecies not even in print anymore), looking at models (He'Stan) and thinking up cool Salamander wargear.
Dev 1; Well, we have to have a super-flamer.
Dev 2; Can't forget Salamander's Mantle. Wolves get their pelts, Salamanders have their cool coats.
Dev 1; What else can we have? He'Stan has a cool spear. Remember Xavier? He had a Hammer, Salamanders love blacksmithing and He'Stan makes Hammers even better. We haven't done a relic hammer yet, so wouldn't it be cool to-
Dev 2; Wait. Whoawhoawhoa. I've got it. A sword. That's on fire!
Dev 1; BRILLIANT!
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2011-12-07, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
But you've got to admit, it fits both the Salamanders theme and the general "purge with fire" vibe that's going on in the Imperium.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2011-12-07, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
It would be more salamander-like to have their special weapon be the pimped up hammer they used during their smiting apprenticeship. Swords are cornered by the more knight-like chapters.
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2011-12-07, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
From the description it sounds more like a sword-shaped flamethrower with a chainsword inside than an actual sword.
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2011-12-07, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Really? To me it reads more like a flame generator attached to a chain weapon or a power weapon.
On a different note, does anyone know if Tyranid Lictors are launched into space to recon planets? This was how it happened in one old comic (1990s) but Lexicanum only mentions their role as battlefield scouts.Awesome OOTS-style Fallout New Vegas avatar by Ceika. Or it was, before Photobucket started charging money.
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2011-12-07, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Replies to Cheesegear:
SpoilerI assume I'm to make the Raven Guard model out of Mk5/6 armour?
Not strictly required, but it may fit.
A sword...On fire. I didn't think the 40K-verse would go for something that tacky. Especially not on the Imperial side. Ah well, if it's a canon thing...
It's basically a distraction- but a chance of setting the enemy on fire, as per the Flame special ability, can be handy.
Power Lance? Does it say anything about how you have to be mounted to use it? Ah well, I need to make a Kor'Sarro on Bike model anyway, and what better way than to have him be a White Scar anyway.
No- but its better when mounted- extra damage.
Cool. Is it clip-size 1 like a Combi-Weapon? Might use one of the Sanguinary Guard guns to represent it.
It's exactly as the Digital Weapon in Deathwatch (page 153)
Psykers only, I assume?
Yes.Last edited by hamishspence; 2011-12-07 at 02:43 PM.
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2011-12-07, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
Why do it with a power fist when you can do it with Dreadnought CCWs:
"Klank"
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2011-12-07, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
Then the Imperium leadership are a bunch of hypocrites, because Inquisitors and Grey Knights mess directly with the foulest chaos stuff all the time and get away with it.
I don't care how they do it, the IoM clearly have safe measures against chaos, yet they'll rather burn billions of innocents rather than apply whatever methods they use to keep inquisitors and grey knights safe.
And again, the primarchs were stolen and half-corrupted by chaos, and the Emperor goes and puts them on the top possible leadership positions. That's Stupid Evil for you.
Yet, they didn't, and that's the key diference. Most people probably had evil toughts now and then. It's the ones that actually give in to their evil toughts that we need to be worried about.
Nice try, but Jurten was pretty explicit in showing his decision was solely FOR THE EMPEROR!
By all means, point me to any elite militaries with the top tech that only answer to themselves, or the massive research facilities that don't need to comply with the national interests and standards.
Who's supplying them the best guns and armor and know-how?
Whose planets are they geting their raw resources and recruits again?
Who keeps the corpse-candle in Terra that's vital for their navigation running?
Who supplies the IG waves to do the brunt of the fighting so the SM can then strike the main points?
Every chapter needs massive logistics to be maintained. Now I know they usually have their own forges yada yada, but they only exist because the IoM invested massive resources in the creation of each chapter. Those forges and battle barges didn't spawn out of pure faith.
Actually, we do all the time. Large projects needs obscene amounts of money/resources. Said obscene amounts of money/resources need to come from big institutions. And chances they'll ask you for things you don't like are pretty high, and you can't really bite the hand that feeds you. Unless you're in 40K, that runs in the rule of GRIMDARKNESS.
Again, the IoM has plenty of civil wars/catastrophes whitout the need of chaos and orks buting in. From officers like Jurgen to corrupt governors and power struggles, things could actualy turn much worst in the IoM if there's not a big common enemy to unite against.Last edited by deuterio12; 2011-12-07 at 04:09 PM.
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2011-12-07, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Then the Imperium leadership are a bunch of hypocrites, because Inquisitors and Grey Knights mess directly with the foulest chaos stuff all the time and get away with it.
I don't care how they do it, the IoM clearly have safe measures against chaos, yet they'll rather burn billions of innocents rather than apply whatever methods they use to keep inquisitors and grey knights safe.
Yet, they didn't, and that's the key diference. Most people probably had evil toughts now and then. It's the ones that actually give in to their evil toughts that we need to be worried about.
Nice try, but Jurten was pretty explicit in showing his decision was solely FOR THE EMPEROR!
By all means, point me to any elite militaries with the top tech that only answer to themselves, or the massive research facilities that don't need to comply with the national interests and standards.
Whose planets are they geting their raw resources and recruits again?
Who's supplying them the best guns and armor and know-how?
Who supplies the IG waves to do the brunt of the fighting so the SM can then strike the main points?
Who keeps the corpse-candle in Terra that's vital for their navigation running?
Every chapter needs massive logistics to be maintained. Now I know they usually have their own forges yada yada, but they only exist because the IoM invested massive resources in the creation of each chapter. Those forges and battle barges didn't spawn out of pure faith.
Sure, the Imperium could absolutely wipe out the Space Marines, and could deny them all mobility etc. Only by doing so, they turn the SM against them, while at the same time robbing themselves of one of their best weapons. And the SM know this very well. The way it is now is most beneficial for both. After all, Space Marines DO fight for the Imperium, and they ARE very effective at that. They're just harder to control.
Actually, we do all the time. Large projects needs obscene amounts of money/resources. Said obscene amounts of money/resources need to come from big institutions. And chances they'll ask you for things you don't like are pretty high, and you can't really bite the hand that feeds you. Unless you're in 40K, that runs in the rule of GRIMDARKNESS.
Again, the IoM has plenty of civil wars/catastrophes whitout the need of chaos and orks buting in. From officers like Jurgen to corrupt governors and power struggles, things could actualy turn much worst in the IoM if there's not a big common enemy to unite against.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2011-12-07, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
Jurgen. When you find out who you're talking about, please let me know.
And, "The Dark Age of Technology" proves the rest of it wrong. Remember - that utopic period in human history when humanity owned most of the galaxy without any significant rivals apart from the Eldar, who had much better things to do than worry about upstart monkies?~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2011-12-07, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
He meant Jurten, the Commander who gave the order that started the atomic war on Krieg. Minor misspellings happen.
But yeah, I was tempted to point out that misspelling, too. Mostly because the idea of Fenrik Jurgen the officer is endlessly amusing.
Then the Imperium leadership are a bunch of hypocrites, because Inquisitors and Grey Knights mess directly with the foulest chaos stuff all the time and get away with it.
I don't care how they do it, the IoM clearly have safe measures against chaos, yet they'll rather burn billions of innocents rather than apply whatever methods they use to keep inquisitors and grey knights safe.
Who's supplying them the best guns and armor and know-how?
Whose planets are they geting their raw resources and recruits again?
Who keeps the corpse-candle in Terra that's vital for their navigation running?
Who supplies the IG waves to do the brunt of the fighting so the SM can then strike the main points?
*or can get them from any nearby planet, if they're a crusade chapter. And if you get picked to become a space marine, you take that chance. You don't have a choice yeah, but even if you had it, you wouldn't take it if you lived in the Imperium of Man. Space Marines are not called Angels of death just because they kill stuff. If an Angel came to you (put yourself in the shoes of a very religious person if you need to, as religious skeptics don't tend to live long in the IoM unless they're good at hiding it), and told you they needed you to train to become one, you'd leap at the chance.Last edited by Squark; 2011-12-07 at 06:05 PM.
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2011-12-08, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
More like saying that when we have a bomb threat, we can quickly call a bomb technician to take care of the situation. And even if no technician is available, at least evacuate the people nearby, even if there's the risk the one who put the bomb will escape in the confusion.
In the IoM, the bomb technician is a spoiled child that may or may not answer your call, and then the officers just decide to call a nuclear strike in the city where the bomb was "just to be safe".
What's the point of having an over-the-top IoM if they can't even do that? By all means, start with planetary governors, then important officers, promote investigation on how to make the process faster, mass-produce it, etc, etc. Kinda how we do with medicine.
The only logic explanation is that the IoM is indeed a place of pure decay where they haven't managed to make any significant advance in 10.000 years.
False, Grey Knights have a 0% betrayal rate. Their chapter master even waltz in the chaos realms itself whitout any trouble.
I aparently know more than anyone else in this thread, since in the previous one people were seriously arguing stuff like Khorne being the weakest chaos god and his followers being a bunch of peaceful philosophers.
In Krieg's case, the best plan would've been to escape the planet and then come back with reinforcments when available to crush the rebels whitout glassing the planet. Instead he decides to torch the planet.
But really, it's simply hilarious how the IoM in one moment has over a billion warships (that's a million ships per planet), and the other they have nothing to deal with a planet going rebel. Hurray for IoM innefeciency!
Still didn't happen. Nyah!
The government ordered them to test it anyway. If the scientists didn't want permission, they wouldn't have pointed out that.
On the other hand, nowadays everybody's strictly forbidden from detonating more nuclear bombs in the planet's surface, even if just for test purposes.
And you still didn't provide military examples.
And who gave them those planets? Who colonized them to begin with?
Nope, again you can't make forges and ships out of faith. It was the IoM that first supplied them with those.
Movie marines do it. Actual SM, like pointed time and time again in Imperial Armors and wars like Armagedon, leave the IG to do the brunt of the fighting.
So you do admit the SM are basically parasites with guns.
Build and maintained thanks to the IoM first giving them the ships and forges needed to do that. Again, chapters don't spawn out of of thin air. The IoM is the one collecting extra geneseed, making new neophytes, then hands them guns and gear and planets and their own fleet.
And 50% of the time they turn to chaos.
SM fight for their own interests. Like the Dark Angels that'll go out of their way to capture anyone who knows about their past, even if it means dooming countless other people. Like the Blood Ravens that seem more interested in looting everything they can than actualy helping.
Each SM is built from the blood of hundreds of talented children. I don't care how good each SM is, I would rather have the hundreds of elite soldiers/engineers/leaders that don't have 50% chaos turn rate and actually follow orders. In particular when a lascannon/plasma gun hits just as hard whetever is a stormtrooper or a SM firing it.
-The IoM's technology works on the back of STCs, and any idiot can use those. We have records of feral worlds churning out ships thanks to those for emperor's sake!
-Whatever creative sparks the dudes in Mars have, it's due to the void dragon being there. By all means replace them with ones more loyal.
-As pointed above, the resources spent on the SM could be much better empoyed in other stuff.
The Imperium is already crippled forever, and no matter how you look at it, SM did it.
Ah, but see, you can never remove chaos from the equation. Because chaos is literally a reflection of the mortal feelings, desires and fears. Just like the eldar's arrogance ended up spawning a chaos god, so does the IoM decay, violence and intrigue feed and strenghten chaos. Corruption does beget corruption.
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2011-12-08, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
If the IoM declares Exterminatus, it means the did not find a bomb but instead found something that does not even fall in the scope of bomb techs anymore, not even nuclear scientists will help by then.
What's the point of having an over-the-top IoM if they can't even do that? By all means, start with planetary governors, then important officers, promote investigation on how to make the process faster, mass-produce it, etc, etc. Kinda how we do with medicine.
The only logic explanation is that the IoM is indeed a place of pure decay where they haven't managed to make any significant advance in 10.000 years.
False, Grey Knights have a 0% betrayal rate. Their chapter master even waltz in the chaos realms itself whitout any trouble.
I aparently know more than anyone else in this thread, since in the previous one people were seriously arguing stuff like Khorne being the weakest chaos god and his followers being a bunch of peaceful philosophers.
In Krieg's case, the best plan would've been to escape the planet and then come back with reinforcments when available to crush the rebels whitout glassing the planet. Instead he decides to torch the planet.
But really, it's simply hilarious how the IoM in one moment has over a billion warships (that's a million ships per planet), and the other they have nothing to deal with a planet going rebel. Hurray for IoM innefeciency!
Still didn't happen. Nyah!
The government ordered them to test it anyway. If the scientists didn't want permission, they wouldn't have pointed out that.
On the other hand, nowadays everybody's strictly forbidden from detonating more nuclear bombs in the planet's surface, even if just for test purposes.
And you still didn't provide military examples.
And who gave them those planets? Who colonized them to begin with?
Nope, again you can't make forges and ships out of faith. It was the IoM that first supplied them with those.
Movie marines do it. Actual SM, like pointed time and time again in Imperial Armors and wars like Armagedon, leave the IG to do the brunt of the fighting.
So you do admit the SM are basically parasites with guns.
Build and maintained thanks to the IoM first giving them the ships and forges needed to do that. Again, chapters don't spawn out of of thin air. The IoM is the one collecting extra geneseed, making new neophytes, then hands them guns and gear and planets and their own fleet.
And 50% of the time they turn to chaos.
SM fight for their own interests. Like the Dark Angels that'll go out of their way to capture anyone who knows about their past, even if it means dooming countless other people. Like the Blood Ravens that seem more interested in looting everything they can than actualy helping.
Each SM is built from the blood of hundreds of talented children. I don't care how good each SM is, I would rather have the hundreds of elite soldiers/engineers/leaders that don't have 50% chaos turn rate and actually follow orders. In particular when a lascannon/plasma gun hits just as hard whetever is a stormtrooper or a SM firing it.
-The IoM's technology works on the back of STCs, and any idiot can use those. We have records of feral worlds churning out ships thanks to those for emperor's sake!
-Whatever creative sparks the dudes in Mars have, it's due to the void dragon being there. By all means replace them with ones more loyal.
-As pointed above, the resources spent on the SM could be much better empoyed in other stuff.
- I'd like a source here too, as far as I know almost none of the Admech even know about the dragon, most are honest mechanic-priests
- not really, both the admech and the SM fill a role no other entity could fill and trying to remove them would be far too much effort to be worth it.
The Imperium is already crippled forever, and no matter how you look at it, SM did it.
The IoM recognized the mistake and made sure it won't happen again.
Ah, but see, you can never remove chaos from the equation. Because chaos is literally a reflection of the mortal feelings, desires and fears. Just like the eldar's arrogance ended up spawning a chaos god, so does the IoM decay, violence and intrigue feed and strenghten chaos. Corruption does beget corruption.
edit: reformatted
many more edits: fixed stuffLast edited by Borgh; 2011-12-08 at 08:16 AM.
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2011-12-08, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
More like saying that when we have a bomb threat, we can quickly call a bomb technician to take care of the situation. And even if no technician is available, at least evacuate the people nearby, even if there's the risk the one who put the bomb will escape in the confusion.
In the IoM, the bomb technician is a spoiled child that may or may not answer your call, and then the officers just decide to call a nuclear strike in the city where the bomb was "just to be safe".
What's the point of having an over-the-top IoM if they can't even do that? By all means, start with planetary governors, then important officers, promote investigation on how to make the process faster, mass-produce it, etc, etc. Kinda how we do with medicine.
And to carry on your example, in Warhammer 40K, anyone who would have been present when the bomb was discovered might become a bomb himself.
The only logic explanation is that the IoM is indeed a place of pure decay where they haven't managed to make any significant advance in 10.000 years.
False, Grey Knights have a 0% betrayal rate. Their chapter master even waltz in the chaos realms itself whitout any trouble.
I aparently know more than anyone else in this thread, since in the previous one people were seriously arguing stuff like Khorne being the weakest chaos god and his followers being a bunch of peaceful philosophers.
In Krieg's case, the best plan would've been to escape the planet and then come back with reinforcments when available to crush the rebels whitout glassing the planet. Instead he decides to torch the planet.
But really, it's simply hilarious how the IoM in one moment has over a billion warships (that's a million ships per planet), and the other they have nothing to deal with a planet going rebel. Hurray for IoM innefeciency!
Still didn't happen. Nyah!
The government ordered them to test it anyway. If the scientists didn't want permission, they wouldn't have pointed out that.
On the other hand, nowadays everybody's strictly forbidden from detonating more nuclear bombs in the planet's surface, even if just for test purposes.
And you still didn't provide military examples.
So you do admit the SM are basically parasites with guns.
Each SM is built from the blood of hundreds of talented children. I don't care how good each SM is, I would rather have the hundreds of elite soldiers/engineers/leaders that don't have 50% chaos turn rate and actually follow orders. In particular when a lascannon/plasma gun hits just as hard whetever is a stormtrooper or a SM firing it.
-The IoM's technology works on the back of STCs, and any idiot can use those. We have records of feral worlds churning out ships thanks to those for emperor's sake!
-Whatever creative sparks the dudes in Mars have, it's due to the void dragon being there. By all means replace them with ones more loyal.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2011-12-08, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
None of the Primarchs were corrupted by their experiences in the warp as infants - they were corrupted and twisted by their experiences with humanity.
Nice try, but Jurten was pretty explicit in showing his decision was solely FOR THE EMPEROR!
By all means, point me to any elite militaries with the top tech that only answer to themselves, or the massive research facilities that don't need to comply with the national interests and standards.
Depending on how conspiracy theory you want to go some will say the level of control exerted by the government over groups such as the SAS, Spetznaz, and DEVGRU is minimal.
Again, the IoM has plenty of civil wars/catastrophes whitout the need of chaos and orks buting in. From officers like Jurgen to corrupt governors and power struggles, things could actualy turn much worst in the IoM if there's not a big common enemy to unite against.
And since y'all are getting into serious quote wars, a bit of levity:
Princess in the streets.
Princess in the sheets.
Don't touch me I'm royalty.
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2011-12-08, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
note give, the IoM kickstarts a chapter but then decide to let them have free reign without needing much further support. Now to the second part of this quote: 50% is far exagerated, lexicanum names 75 renegade chapters out of about 1000 active chapters. I did not feel like looking up how much of those have been destroyed but I'd guess the majority. Then there is Horus' tour de force which is an admitted mistake.
Deut, saying '50% of Marines turn to chaos' (because you only look specifically at the Heresy) is like saying '50% of all American Presidents were named George Washington' (because you only look specifically at the years 1789-1801). It's hyperpolic, misleading, and undermines the rest of your points regardless of their validity because it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2011-12-08 at 03:36 PM.
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2011-12-08, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-12-08, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Last edited by Squark; 2011-12-08 at 04:27 PM.
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2011-12-08, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Technically, at one point, roughly 50% of the Space Marine legions did turn to chaos.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2011-12-08, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: WORDS FOR THE WORD GOD; DISCUSSIONS FOR THE DISCUS
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