Mercenary Pen's Meticulously Planned Machine of Prose Random Banter #182

[Tragic_Comedian]

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

I play the guitar, harmonica, banjo, mandolin, etc. Folky stuff. What I really would like to learn is some kind of horn, though. I do love jazz so much.

[Dimonite]

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

I play piano! But to broaden the topic: I'm mostly a fan of jazz. Sing, Sing, Sing by Benny Goodman is possibly the best piece of music ever written.

[Rawhide]

Also, Cobra_Ikari, my apologies for singling you out. I don't mean that you're a bad person in any way, I was just referring to your post about being offended.

I'll edit that in.

[HalfTangible]

Apologising for accidentally blowing up someone's car, when there was no intent to blow up anything or you were legally performing some experiment and all safety precautions were taken to the best of your knowledge, does not fix the car but goes a long way towards repairing any hurt, as long as the apology is genuine.

Apologising for saying something hurtful when you had no intention of hurting people and you have learned from your mistake, or you were a bigot previously and now are learning from your mistakes and see what you've done wrong, does not make the words unsaid, but it does go a long way to repairing any hurt, if you are genuine in your apology and follow it up with actions.

But you're trying to MAKE him apologize, and that wouldn't be genuine even if he DID mean it. If the person KNOWS you're sorry, that should be good enough.

Don't try to twist this around, none of my words meant anything like that.

I said that's what it SEEMS like for a reason - you haven't said it outright but you are focusing on getting Pokemon to deliver a "proper" apology, and I fail to see why you would do that if you thought he'd gotten past his prejudice and moved on.

He tried and failed to get past it properly.

Sorry, what? He only failed because you refused to accept he was dropping it.

He issued a non-apology, as already mentioned it is in fact a reverse of an apology (what he quoted actually means "I don't agree with you, but I'm going to leave the conversation now while not agreeing with you").

I don't believe this is what he meant. I believe he wants to learn. I believe if people like Cobra_Ikari can see this, and help him get past his preconceived notions, he will become a better person for it.

And you drew that conclusion from the fact that he "issued a non apology" and tried to drop the subject? Sorry, I don't see the logic. In fact, from the way you worded "what he actually means", it seems you won't accept an apology unless he says he agrees with you, which is frankly not an apology.

As I understand it, Pokemon saw he was wrong and tried to drop it before any more bad feelings were spawned. I don't mean to be rude, but if I may be blunt, I think you're making this a MUCH bigger deal than it needs to be.

But yes Mutant, I will drop the subject here. Partly because it's going nowhere, but also because I feel like I should start walking on eggshells.

[LaZodiac]

The only instruments I played where the Recorder and Trumpet. Both were really really hard and I gave up and I actually got banned from music class for the rest of my middleschooling.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Also, Cobra_Ikari, my apologies for singling you out. I don't mean that you're a bad person in any way, I was just referring to your post about being offended.

I'll edit that in.

I...wasn't very...offended by what you said, or...what Pokemon said, but I try to be empathetic to everyone's situations, and that was the part of what he said that I felt would be taken most offensively, if that makes sense.

...I just think if, before posting, people paused to think about...how the people they're speaking to will feel about it, there'd be less arguing.

*total hypocrite, since he never thinks before he posts*

[Tragic_Comedian]

I play piano! But to broaden the topic: I'm mostly a fan of jazz. Sing, Sing, Sing by Benny Goodman is possibly the best piece of music ever written.

I also like jazz. But a lot of modern jazz is just like wanking with musical instruments. Some of it's pretty good. What I like the best is trad jazz and Dixieland, stuff like that. I always thought maybe even if I didn't play a horn I could find a home in the rhythm section with my guitar or a tenor banjo, but man... All those barre chords.

Who are some of your favorite players, Dimo?

[Mutant Sheep]

The only instruments I played where the Recorder and Trumpet. Both were really really hard and I gave up and I actually got banned from music class for the rest of my middleschooling.

... I WANT YOUR POWERS!

I...wasn't very...offended by what you said, or...what Pokemon said, but I try to be empathetic to everyone's situations, and that was the part of what he said that I felt would be taken most offensively, if that makes sense.

...I just think if, before posting, people paused to think about...how the people they're speaking to will feel about it, there'd be less arguing.

*total hypocrite, since he never thinks before he posts*

Bah. Thinking. I do that once a month. It is apparently sexy.

[Amidus Drexel]

Well, I play guitar, bass, trumpet, piano (poorly), mallet percussion, drum kit (poorly), and some other assorted percussion instruments. I'm pretty good at picking up things to the point where I can play simple songs, but the only instrument I consider myself really good at is bass.

I play piano! But to broaden the topic: I'm mostly a fan of jazz. Sing, Sing, Sing by Benny Goodman is possibly the best piece of music ever written.

I wish I had more inclination to practice playing piano; I'm not very good at it. It's hard to go wrong with jazz, even the stuff that's really "out there".

I play the guitar, harmonica, banjo, mandolin, etc. Folky stuff. What I really would like to learn is some kind of horn, though. I do love jazz so much.

Horn... you mean brass? (some people I know call everything a horn, from a clarinet to a tuba, so I have to check) Trumpet's fun, if a little difficult to just pick up and play. I've never played a french horn, so I can't say much about that, but they do sound nice. The lower brass instruments tend to be easier to play (except maybe the tuba, that takes some serious air), but I never put much time into learning how to play them, so I can't say much there either.

The only instruments I played where the Recorder and Trumpet. Both were really really hard and I gave up and I actually got banned from music class for the rest of my middleschooling.

That's terrible! No one should be banned from taking a class, especially something like music.

[Qwertystop]

Music? Um...
I don't play any music, but...
Anybody else ever heard of the Octobass?

[Rawhide]

But you're trying to MAKE him apologize, and that wouldn't be genuine even if he DID mean it. If the person KNOWS you're sorry, that should be good enough.

No, I'm not trying to make him make an apology, I'm trying to help him craft an apology I think he meant to make in the right way. This isn't just for now, but for the future. Helping him admit a mistake and apologise for it properly so that people understand what he meant and don't think you were just trying to cop out of it.

I said that's what it SEEMS like for a reason - you haven't said it outright but you are focusing on getting Pokemon to deliver a "proper" apology, and I fail to see why you would do that if you thought he'd gotten past his prejudice and moved on.

How could "You have made a mistake, admit that you've made a mistake, explain, recognise that others have made a good point, apologise, and whatever you do, do not try to go back on what you've said in the apology." be any more clear?

Sorry, what? He only failed because you refused to accept he was dropping it.

Go back and check how many times he had to keep saying he made a mistake/was corrected/etc.

This should have been a non-issue. I'm helping him to express himself properly, for now and in the future, and helping others to understand him, There was no need for it to drag on like this after I had passed on my advice.

And you drew that conclusion from the fact that he "issued a non apology" and tried to drop the subject? Sorry, I don't see the logic. In fact, from the way you worded "what he actually means", it seems you won't accept an apology unless he says he agrees with you, which is frankly not an apology.

As I understand it, Pokemon saw he was wrong and tried to drop it before any more bad feelings were spawned. I don't mean to be rude, but if I may be blunt, I think you're making this a MUCH bigger deal than it needs to be.

But yes Mutant, I will drop the subject here.

I drew the following conclusion ("I don't believe this is what he meant. I believe he was sorry. I believe he wants to learn. I believe if people [...] can see this, and help him get past his preconceived notions, he will become a better person for it.") from his past actions and reading between the lines.

As for "what he actually means"...
What he said: Not an apology.
What I think he actually meant: An apology.

I don't care whether he agrees with me. I do care about prejudices, and I do care about people here understanding one another and getting along with each other.

By the way, you do realise that you're trying to accuse me here of thinking that he has bad character, when I am saying completely the opposite, right?

[Tragic_Comedian]

Music? Um...
I don't play any music, but...
Anybody else ever heard of the Octobass?

I have. It seemed pretty unnecessary.

[Thajocoth]

I don't like how we got here, but I think this is an interesting topic unto itself: One thing I've learned from the poly community; there are "languages of apology". For some people, the words "I'm sorry" actually make any apology feel insincere.

Languages of apology are actually one of the lesser known pieces of compatibility (not just for romantic relationships, but it's important there as well).

When a person feels wronged in some way, what will make it right again for them is based on their language(s) of apology.

Also, people usually apologize in the way that they would most like to receive, unless they learn to do otherwise. Hitting all 5 is never a bad idea.

Here's a summary of the basic 5: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/learn-...es-of-apology/

Mine would be for a person to acknowledge that I had a problem with what they did, explain to me their train of thought, and discusses with me how to avoid this problem in the future. I don't need the words "I'm sorry", but they can help some. Of course, the explanation is a 6th language of apology, and is not very common. Most people get really insulted if you start to explain your train of thought in an apology.

[Dimonite]

Bah. Thinking. I do that once a month. It is apparently sexy.

From an evolutionary standpoint, females are programmed to seek out the mate whose genes are best for continued survival. In the past, this was determined by physical fitness - a man needed to be strong to survive. However, given the recent (in the grand scheme of things) paradigm shift from brawn to brains, it is becoming increasingly apparent that the mate most able to ensure the survival of offspring is the most intelligent person, as more of the available resources are allotted to the more educated people.Therefore, given the inherent desire for the most fit mate, and the understanding that fitness is now equated to intelligence: yes, thinking is sexy.

[Mutant Sheep]

I have. It seemed pretty unnecessary.

You sigged half tans thing. I laughify.

[Tragic_Comedian]

You sigged half tans thing. I laughify.

Well, I am a Tragic Comedian.

[AsteriskAmp]

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

I play piano, glockenspiel, accordion/bandoleon/musette, harmonica and kazoo proficiently.

I learnt how to play violin in terms of theory but am not able to play fluidly, I just can produce a C or any other note if you ask for it, not Ein Kleine Nachtmusic. Same thing for guitar, ask me for a chord and I can make it, but can't play fluidly.

I can play any Metallophone moderately right but that's because of the glonkenspiel and my left hand is not to the level of a proper Metallophone player.

As for winds I know recorder like every kid and circular breathing so in theory I could pick up wind instruments, I just don't find them alluring enough.

I play piano! But to broaden the topic: I'm mostly a fan of jazz. Sing, Sing, Sing by Benny Goodman is possibly the best piece of music ever written.

I prefer more modern Jazz.
Uehara, Jamiroquai, Sample, Petrucciani, Ozone, Burton and Corea.

And well, touhou jazz:
sweez, Swing Holic, Bizen, トマト組 & Bos, koutaq

I also like jazz. But a lot of modern jazz is just like wanking with musical instruments. Some of it's pretty good. What I like the best is trad jazz and Dixieland, stuff like that. I always thought maybe even if I didn't play a horn I could find a home in the rhythm section with my guitar or a tenor banjo, but man... All those barre chords.

You mean "freeform" jazz?

Most modern jazz is actually quite complex and structured. They explore complex chords instead of going through the same progressions with different melodies, actually trying to do something new harmonically. There are also properly folkish modern jazzists, Vangelis and Kitaro both are fantastic in terms of instrument exploration.

[LaZodiac]

That's terrible! No one should be banned from taking a class, especially something like music.

The story's actually kinda funny, if you wanna hear it

[Mynxae]

We could always talk about music. Does anybody play any instruments?

I can sing well-ish, does that count? Wish I could project and pitch-change more easily though.

[Amidus Drexel]

The story's actually kinda funny, if you wanna hear it

I am always interested in funny stories. Go ahead!

I can sing well-ish, does that count? Wish I could project and pitch-change more easily though.

Sure, singing's an instrument! You can play your vocal chords! Unless I'm really putting a lot of effort into it, my singing is more like in-key shouting (although that's likely a matter of genre rather than anything else). Projecting has never been an issue for me (see: shouting), but I need to work on my tone (again, see: shouting).

[Mutant Sheep]

The story's actually kinda funny, if you wanna hear it

I am always interested in funny stories. Go ahead!

I FEEL IGNORED.

Also, STORY TELL US YAY!

[Tragic_Comedian]

You mean "freeform" jazz?

Most modern jazz is actually quite complex and structured. They explore complex chords instead of going through the same progressions with different melodies, actually trying to do something new harmonically. There are also properly folkish modern jazzists, Vangelis and Kitaro both are fantastic in terms of instrument exploration.

I'll have to check those guys out.

I've actually been thinking of taking guitar lessons lately. Knowing how to play jazz is dead useful in any kind of music you wanna play. It's not something I think I could teach myself. "6 notes to a chords, 4 to a barre, no cheating."

[Amidus Drexel]

I'll have to check those guys out.

I've actually been thinking of taking guitar lessons lately. Knowing how to play jazz is dead useful in any kind of music you wanna play. It's not something I think I could teach myself. "6 notes to a chords, 4 to a barre, no cheating."

Classical training is good too. If you've got classical and jazz training, there's not much you can't play on an instrument.

[LaZodiac]

I am always interested in funny stories. Go ahead!



Sure, singing's an instrument! You can play your vocal chords! Unless I'm really putting a lot of effort into it, my singing is more like in-key shouting (although that's likely a matter of genre rather than anything else). Projecting has never been an issue for me (see: shouting), but I need to work on my tone (again, see: shouting).

I FEEL IGNORED.

Also, STORY TELL US YAY!

Basically, one year the music teacher said that at the end of the year, if we passed, we'd get a choice about wheter we get to stay in the music class or not next year. If we failed the class, we weren't allowed in any more.

Now, as someone who had no musical talent or ability to move my hands good enough, I picked trumpet as my instrument since it seemed easy. It was not. Long story short I didn't even bother doing more then show up, because the end result was no more music class for me

[AsteriskAmp]

I'll have to check those guys out.

I've actually been thinking of taking guitar lessons lately. Knowing how to play jazz is dead useful in any kind of music you wanna play. It's not something I think I could teach myself. "6 notes to a chords, 4 to a barre, no cheating."

Playing which type of jazz? Dixieland is more of abusing the pentatonic blues scale to hell and back more than playing with the harmony. As you advance the more 9ths, 11ths, 13th and the dreaded sus and dim start to appear... and the more important voicing becomes in relation to melody and improvisation.

I have no idea what a barre is, unless you mean a beat. In which case it's the inverse, jazz alike to prog metal jumps around different signatures. Take Five for example is entirely based in having a 5/4 tempo.

Something you get out of jazz which is useful for any genre is dominating scales, specially exotic ones like the Neapolitan, the Arabic ones, or the Gypsy scale, which make for interesting composing. You also get to use chords the classics use only sparingly for entire songs, like basing a piece on the Prometheus chord which is outright fantastic.

Classical training is good too. If you've got classical and jazz training, there's not much you can't play on an instrument.

I find classical a lot more powerful for composing than playing. While you do get massive amounts of technique, you don't develop certain skills you DO develop in jazz, mainly improvisation, dissonant harmony and chord voicing.

[Amidus Drexel]

I have no idea what a barre is, unless you mean a beat. In which case it's the inverse, jazz alike to prog metal jumps around different signatures. Take Five for example is entirely based in having a 5/4 tempo.

Pfft, real musicians only play in 17/16 time.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Pfft, real musicians only play in 17/16 time.

31/16 time is much more musically impressive. Or 23/12, if you wanna get crazy. >.>

[Amidus Drexel]

31/16 time is much more musically impressive. Or 23/12, if you wanna get crazy. >.>

Time signatures get kind of stupid after you get past whatever/8 time. It's essentially saying "whatever/8 time plus a few smaller notes.

[AsteriskAmp]

Pfft, real musicians only play in 17/16 time.

31/16 time is much more musically impressive. Or 23/12, if you wanna get crazy. >.>

I've never heard of any song on either of those.

Money by Pink Floyd is in 7/4, Whipping Post by the Allman Brothers opens in 11/4, Radiohead made a career out of weird time signatures, Shostakovich's Festive Overture just throws the need to write tempo out of the window, March of the Pigs has weird stuff that makes it 29/8. 9/8 for The Crunge by Led Zeppelin, Zappa has weird cruel stuff like the 9/8 after the 4/4 and 8/8, Jethro Tull's Living in the Past 5/4.

The only one I actually like playing apart from Take Five with odd time signature is Everything's Alright from the Jesuschrist Superstar musical which is in 5/4.

The most insane I have ever seen is Mahavishnu Orchestra in 13/8, played at speeds not meant for most humans.

EDIT: Forgot about Klavierstück IX, which... is just... Fibonacci series for rhythms and a 142/8 for one bar.

RE-EDIT: Coily by Ozric Tentacles is in 17/16

[Tragic_Comedian]

I have no idea what a barre is,

Barre- n. (Music) a technique of playing a chord on a stringed instrument by laying a finger across the strings at a particular fret, raising their pitch.

It's basically using a finger like a capo. You can move the same shape up and down. Barre chords, y'know.

My favorite time signatures are 4/4 and 2/4. I'm a simple man.