LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!

[Tonal Architect]

Hypothetical scenario. Suppose that in the future, there's a way to transfer one's consciousness to robots. They look perfectly human on the outside, and can even move and speak like a human. Assuming that at this point in time, SRS isn't perfect... how likely would it be that transition(at least for some people) would entail becoming a robot of the opposite sex?

I actually raised that point a few threads (lol) ago, as the "Ghost in the Shell" scenario...

I believe that should technology ever get that far, body and apparent gender will become wadrobe choices... As in, even though everyone knows your original gender is male, you're dressed as a formal business female, an androginous male, a transgender female, a very male-like female, and so on...

Point being: If you can transfer yourself to one... Why not own a whole bunch? Also, even if ownership costs are prohibitive, we're probably looking at body renting stores becoming a reality.

Personally, I believe that while most have a fixed gender identify, most of that stems from the fact that switching your outward gender identify entails in a lot of personal and monetary cost, as in surgery and perhaps medication, not to mention social problems...

Should that cost ever be lowered, even mr. macho macho man will probably take a few strolls arounds the club strip wearing a hot hot female body in a mini-skirt. It's not like you can't go back to your meatware in the morning after...

edit: A related phenomenon would probably be the creation of MMORPG characters whose gender doesn't match that of the player... Happens all the time, mostly because it has very little consequence. "Hacking" and "modding" your own meatware so it changes its outward sex? Only people who are far more willing to face the costs it entails in go that far.

[MesiDoomstalker]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

[turkishproverb]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hello. Welcome. Don't worry, we don't bite. Unless you ask nicely.

[bluewind95]

Are they fully functional?

Aside from being made from different stuff, they're pretty much the same. Including the relevant gendered bits. No reproductive abilities, though.

@Bluewind:

I'd take the robot body, and I'm perfectly happy with mine. So I suspect that even if SRS were perfect at that point, you'd still have some people choosing to simply switch bodies, especially if it was easier and less painful.

Which, actually, one needs to know for your version of the question too - is it harder to become a robot-person than it is to get SRS? And is one less painful, and for how long?

Also, does SRS, despite still being imperfect, allow one to have biological children? What about the robot-body? If either does, are they your children genetically, or would transplanted/tank-grown organs from someone else be involved?

SRS would leave the same reproductive issues it has today. Robot body would have 0 reproductive capacity. There is no pain involved in the robot transition. You're just... kind of no longer human.

[Tonal Architect]

Once you transfer to a robot body, can you transfer back to your original, meat body? And, can you transfer to other bodies once you transfer to one, regardless of the first answer?

Depending on the answers to those (and I'm assuming yes to both), you get some rather interesting developments.

[MageOfCakes]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hi! I'm not new but I've been gone for a very long time, so it's almost like being new. We can be new together.

[Tychris1]

Once you transfer to a robot body, can you transfer back to your original, meat body? And, can you transfer to other bodies once you transfer to one, regardless of the first answer?

Depending on the answers to those (and I'm assuming yes to both), you get some rather interesting developments.

If one could jump back to their original bodies then i'd think the criminal underworld would start a whole chain of taking bodies that have been transferred away from (Normally the original "empty" body that is ripe for the taking) and then allowing for people to transfer into them under the radar. It's possibley the closest thing one could get to a "new identity" that the law couldn't track, and that'd raise quite the price.

Of course, you then have the issue of law enforcement flipping the table and having there agents swap into either different bodies to go undercover, or flat out taking members of the chain, putting them into another body, and then sliding in an agent to pry information loose. What ensues would probably be the biggest game of subterfuge, backstabbing, and just not knowing what the heck is going on that has ever occured on earth.

Of course, i'm just assuming, but I asked some cop friends on their opinion on it and they thought it was pretty accurate (Well, the one's who could actually understand it did atleast).

[Serpentine]

There's a movie that went pretty much exactly like that, except with clones instead of robots...

[Socratov]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hello and welcome here! I hope you enjoy your stay in the thread. cookies on the left, glomps on the right, Enjoy!

On the whole bodyswitching thing. I think the future is not going to hold android/gynoids, but a bio-engineered body-double (we are allready able to grow various organs and other stuffs). the question is, can we complete the genome project and find evidence of being gay/trans/whathaveyou and make alterations without fiddling with identity. Suggestion is that we could (since genetics count for only so much and identity would be similar to fenotype), however, what remains is the proof...

[noparlpf]

I actually raised that point a few threads (lol) ago, as the "Ghost in the Shell" scenario...

I believe that should technology ever get that far, body and apparent gender will become wadrobe choices... As in, even though everyone knows your original gender is male, you're dressed as a formal business female, an androginous male, a transgender female, a very male-like female, and so on...

Point being: If you can transfer yourself to one... Why not own a whole bunch? Also, even if ownership costs are prohibitive, we're probably looking at body renting stores becoming a reality.

Personally, I believe that while most have a fixed gender identify, most of that stems from the fact that switching your outward gender identify entails in a lot of personal and monetary cost, as in surgery and perhaps medication, not to mention social problems...

Should that cost ever be lowered, even mr. macho macho man will probably take a few strolls arounds the club strip wearing a hot hot female body in a mini-skirt. It's not like you can't go back to your meatware in the morning after...

edit: A related phenomenon would probably be the creation of MMORPG characters whose gender doesn't match that of the player... Happens all the time, mostly because it has very little consequence. "Hacking" and "modding" your own meatware so it changes its outward sex? Only people who are far more willing to face the costs it entails in go that far.

I might try out a female body to see what it's like, but you couldn't get me into a miniskirt.

[Absol197]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hi and welcome! I hope you have fun joining our little slice of the internet. It's a nice place!

That reminds me. GSM and GSRM aren't in the OP.

Also, there's a lot of random hanging asterisks in that vocabulary and terminology section.

I have no idea what you're talking about .


~Phoenix~

[Irish Musician]

Define "based on body".

Not quite sure how to define it. I mean, just on the face of it, when, just as an example, a woman explains to me that while she may on the outside look like a woman, everything inside is telling her that she (he) is a man. I mean, that just seems to me that gender isn't completely based on what out physical parts turned out to be, but also that there is a make-up of the brain, as well, telling that woman that while she sees a woman in the mirror, that is where her being a woman ends. All the rest of her biological make-up (i.e. her mind) is telling her she is a man. Like I said, I am still learning in this area and trying to figure it out, so if I don't make complete sense, I apologize.

Gender means type. Gender can be used to mean a different type of thing, without referring to sexual characteristics (male/female/etc.) whatsoever. That the two are so correlated is unfortunate, but gender =/= sex. You are a male of the male type. That law is the "correct" word for both of those is confusing.

Think of it through comparison. Nudists. A nudist who is forced to wear clothes is uncomfortable. A non-nudist who has to go nude is uncomfortable. What happens if a child born to nudists, from a long line of nudists, wants to wear clothes but can't?

It's uncomfortable, painful, somewhat Embarrassing, and everyone else considers it so much of a nonissue you get ridiculed for bringing it up. If you told your friends that your big existential crisis was you wanted to wear clothes but you couldn't, they would laugh.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for going over it.

Point of order. Your original gender was female. So was mine. Testosterone caused mutations so that you ends up male, but technically everyone start life as a woman.

I guess I should have said "birth gender." I know we all technically start female, but my point was not what we start as in the womb, but what we come into this world as when we start to breath air for the first time.

It's not quite my mind not liking my body. It's my body not liking my body. I get the same sense of wrongness from being unfit. My body 'knows' what it should be. If its not there, it chafes. The mind is just along for the ride, like Angel from the Whedonverse discussion.

Never thought that would be referenced again.

So there is no mental aspect to it at all? What I mean by that is, is it not that your body doesn't like your body, but your mind sees what you body is but to it should be something else. And, really, I don't mean to try and tell you how you are feeling or anything so please do not take this as me preaching to you at all, I am just trying to understand

(This next bit is me working on this out loud for feedback, just kinda a Hypothesis type thing) Your body is what your body is.....it doesn't necessarily feel any different to itself, does it? I mean, if your brain wasn't in your body, would it still feel like that? Example; I am a man, but I believe I should be a woman. My body is male, but my mind and heart & soul tell me I should be female. Now, if all the things "inside" were taken out (mind, heart and soul) would my body still feel awkward in itself? Or is the fact that I know I should be a woman something that is wired differently in my brain?

I, obviously, cannot answer these questions as I am not experiencing these feelings, which is why I ask you lovely people. So please do not take offense to any of what I have said or think that I am trying to "disprove" how you feel. Just merely curious and want to learn about my fellow people in the world. Ignorance =/= Bliss in my mind, so thank you SiuiS, and anyone eles who answers, for helping me to understand your situations.

*Jumps out of the closest*
HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hi! I'm not new but I've been gone for a very long time, so it's almost like being new. We can be new together.

Well, as I did druid, a proper Welcome and Welcome Back!
HELLO YOU TWO!!!!!

~Matthew~

[DJ Yung Crunk]

My friend was shocked, shocked, when he discovered I was gay. Not because I'm the picture of masculinity (which I am) but because I am quite the avid listener of hip hop which, as you know, is not the most tolerant of genres (lyrically speaking) and it got me thinking...

Should I be bothered that I'm not bothered by them? I can't articulate why it doesn't shake my love for the genre, I do know why but I just can't find the words for it. But I, myself, have been known to use a homophobic slur as an insult in my time but until my friend's outrage I didn't think much of it.

I need someone to tell me to steer the course so I can listen to music again without getting distracted by pondering my own tact and etiquette (and some of the deeper issues that implies). Will I never be able to listen to Earl Sweatshirt again?

EDIT: Though in Earl's case I think the homophobia might be the least of his problems.

[Lix Lorn]

So there is no mental aspect to it at all? What I mean by that is, is it not that your body doesn't like your body, but your mind sees what you body is but to it should be something else. And, really, I don't mean to try and tell you how you are feeling or anything so please do not take this as me preaching to you at all, I am just trying to understand

(This next bit is me working on this out loud for feedback, just kinda a Hypothesis type thing) Your body is what your body is.....it doesn't necessarily feel any different to itself, does it? I mean, if your brain wasn't in your body, would it still feel like that? Example; I am a man, but I believe I should be a woman. My body is male, but my mind and heart & soul tell me I should be female. Now, if all the things "inside" were taken out (mind, heart and soul) would my body still feel awkward in itself? Or is the fact that I know I should be a woman something that is wired differently in my brain?

Well, as an expert on the situation, I feel safe giving you a full and complete answer.

Hell if I know.

[The Succubus]

My friend was shocked, shocked, when he discovered I was gay. Not because I'm the picture of masculinity (which I am) but because I am quite the avid listener of hip hop which, as you know, is not the most tolerant of genres (lyrically speaking) and it got me thinking...

Should I be bothered that I'm not bothered by them? I can't articulate why it doesn't shake my love for the genre, I do know why but I just can't find the words for it. But I, myself, have been known to use a homophobic slur as an insult in my time but until my friend's outrage I didn't think much of it.

I need someone to tell me to steer the course so I can listen to music again without getting distracted by pondering my own tact and etiquette (and some of the deeper issues that implies). Will I never be able to listen to Earl Sweatshirt again?

EDIT: Though in Earl's case I think the homophobia might be the least of his problems.

I guess its all a question of intent. If some says that sort of thing and in their heart believes those things, then that's something that should be called on. If it's just a passing reference without malicious intent then you can give them a verbal poke if it's a friend or whatever or chalk it up as dumb people being dumb.

A good example of this for me is the word "retarded". A distasteful word to me at the best of times but when used as a derogatory adjective, I do call my friends on its usage. I guess its because I do occasionally work with Downs Syndrome kids and folks with similar conditions. If my time on the internet has taught me anything, it's that there's a wide and colourful world of derogatory adjectives that can be used, without the need to use ones with unpleasant social stigma attached. ^_^

[Zorg]

I have no idea what you're talking about .


~Phoenix~

I'm guessing you only mean the hanging asteriks - probably referring to uses of "trans*" in the OP.


@ Celtic - to follow up on Lix's excellent summary: don't know, don't care


@ Crunk - You don't have to be bothered, but you do need to be aware that others might and moderate your listening accordingly around them (like any other potentially offensive behaviour really).

Relavent video 1 and video 2 - also applicable to any discussion on the use of the word "queer", or so called "n-word rights". Lighter take on the matter.

-

Personal note:

Spoiler

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Talked to my ex today for the first time in a week and half or so I think. Went ok, still hard, but at least I got to tell her so it's a weight off my mind to a certain extent.

Still feel awful a lot of the time, but at least I had three dresses and three pairs of shoes arrive in the mail today, so that's a plus.

[Absol197]

So there is no mental aspect to it at all? What I mean by that is, is it not that your body doesn't like your body, but your mind sees what you body is but to it should be something else. And, really, I don't mean to try and tell you how you are feeling or anything so please do not take this as me preaching to you at all, I am just trying to understand

(This next bit is me working on this out loud for feedback, just kinda a Hypothesis type thing) Your body is what your body is.....it doesn't necessarily feel any different to itself, does it? I mean, if your brain wasn't in your body, would it still feel like that? Example; I am a man, but I believe I should be a woman. My body is male, but my mind and heart & soul tell me I should be female. Now, if all the things "inside" were taken out (mind, heart and soul) would my body still feel awkward in itself? Or is the fact that I know I should be a woman something that is wired differently in my brain?

~Matthew~

Obviously this is only my personal experience, but to me I would say it's entirely mental/spiritual. My body doesn't feel uncomfortable with itself; my body is just a body. But my mind and soul realize that it's the wrong kind of body, which is what causes all of the problems. I'm trying to think of a good analogy like SiuiS did, but I keep pulling a blank.

Also, please note that I have a tendancy to couch everything in spiritual terms, so I'm probably not the best source of scientific data on the subject.

Well, as an expert on the situation, I feel safe giving you a full and complete answer.

Hell if I know.

You know, Lixie, until I looked at your gender symbol, I had completely forgotten that you were trans, too. I just keep thinking of you as that silly girl who everyone here loves.

I don't know whether I should be apologizing for that, or congratulating you. So please let me know .

I'm guessing you only mean the hanging asteriks - probably referring to uses of "trans*" in the OP.

No actually, I meant that after reading Coidzor's post, I went back to the OP and fixed it, so I could pretend it had always been that way .

Personal note:

Spoiler

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Talked to my ex today for the first time in a week and half or so I think. Went ok, still hard, but at least I got to tell her so it's a weight off my mind to a certain extent.

Still feel awful a lot of the time, but at least I had three dresses and three pairs of shoes arrive in the mail today, so that's a plus.

Yay for dresses! I should get myself one; they are a lot of fun!

I'm sorry you're still having a rough time, but I wouldn't expect anything less. Let us know if you need anything, and until then know that we're all sharing in your sadness. Hopefully our combined wishes can lift some of it from you .


~Phoenix~

[Lix Lorn]

You know, Lixie, until I looked at your gender symbol, I had completely forgotten that you were trans, too. I just keep thinking of you as that silly girl who everyone here loves.

I don't know whether I should be apologizing for that, or congratulating you. So please let me know .

Uh. I'll tell you when I come out from under my desk.

[Asta Kask]

That's impossible I think. Gender dysphoria is something really personal and contextual and not something you can put in a simple scale. (And personally, I don't even see why there's a need to.)

I'd make it a 7-point scale modeled after the Comprehensive Psychopathological Rating Scale (CPRS), which is used in among other things depression rating scales.

Something like

Gender Dysphoria - a pervasive feeling of unease or disgust at the conventional physical and social attributes of the person's assigned sex when applied to the person. If the feeling fluctuates, use the rating for the average feeling over the past two weeks.

0 - No gender dysphoria
1
2 - Mild gender dysphoria. The feeling is present, but does not hinder you in your everyday life
3
4 -Moderate gender dysphoria. The feeling is present and causes problems for you in your everyday life.
5
6 -Crippling gender dysphoria. The feeling is so strong that you cannot live a normal life.

Something like that. This is pulled out of my nether regions, remember, so be gentle. Anyway, it would have to go through several rounds of discussions with colleagues and patients before it reached any clinic. The goal is to get to the place where the patient looks at you and says "How did you know I feel like this?" Which was one of my most gratifying moments on talking to patients about our mental fatigability scale (if I may brag for a moment).

I would also like a scale for dysphoric crises, but I'm not going to do it now. Have to save something for the second act.

Why is this possible? After all, people mean different things about what a normal life is, what crippling means, and a host of other things. Well, first of all, people don't vary that much. There are a few outliers on every question, but if we all disagreed widely on every word then we couldn't communicate. Clearly we can. But more importantly, everyone agrees on the ordering of the scale. Everyone agrees that "6" is worse than "4". This allows us to use statistical tools made for this kind of data to analyze and come up with answers.

But what if we discover that gender dysphoria is actually two different things - say social expectations and anatomical disappointments. Then we construct two scales. Or we ask people to rate the worse feeling. Or the less worse feeling. All these choices are difficult, they require a deep theoretical and practical understanding of the problem and of the question you want answered. And obviously close contact with the patients. But the choices can be done and when we tell people about the scale we tell them about the choices made, so they know what they're getting themselves into.

So why? There are all kinds of problems involved in something like HRT. Which doses are best? Best for physiological results or best for psychological results? Should the hormonal treatment be supplemented with anxiolytics? For everyone or for a sub-population? Are there treatments that are harmful for some patients and beneficial for others? How can we individualize treatment? All these questions can really only be answered if we have some way to measure the important variables - like gender dysphoria.

And in the end, the aim is to help the patients. Remember that.

[Astrella]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hi hi~
Welcome!

*snip*

Well, everyone is going to frame their dysphoria in their own way; but the thing is, the brain is just as much physical as the rest of the body, so does the mind / body duality make sense? I don't know. Remember this that I linked a while back? (Trigger warning: trans identity stuff, it's really sad. >.> ) But then again, we do place a higher importance on the brain, even if it's just an organ because we respect individuality. We treat each other's as individuals, we care about the individuals, about the particular brain setup, and not about the bodies themselves.

And not all dysphoria is bodily. Tons of people have social dysphoria as well, and that's a bit harder to peg down as a purely bodily issue?

My friend was shocked, shocked, when he discovered I was gay. Not because I'm the picture of masculinity (which I am) but because I am quite the avid listener of hip hop which, as you know, is not the most tolerant of genres (lyrically speaking) and it got me thinking...

Should I be bothered that I'm not bothered by them? I can't articulate why it doesn't shake my love for the genre, I do know why but I just can't find the words for it. But I, myself, have been known to use a homophobic slur as an insult in my time but until my friend's outrage I didn't think much of it.

I need someone to tell me to steer the course so I can listen to music again without getting distracted by pondering my own tact and etiquette (and some of the deeper issues that implies). Will I never be able to listen to Earl Sweatshirt again?

EDIT: Though in Earl's case I think the homophobia might be the least of his problems.

Nah, you shouldn't be bothered by it. It's okay to enjoy problematic things as long as you're aware that they can be problematic. Here's a good link about it.

With regards to using slurs. I usually go by, it's okay to use them self-referring (reclaiming and all that, though I'd still avoid it myself if it made people uncomfortable. Then again, the only time I use the t-word for example is when I'm in heavy snark about bigots mode) but don't use it for other people unless they've said they're okay with it.

Personal note:

Spoiler

Show

Talked to my ex today for the first time in a week and half or so I think. Went ok, still hard, but at least I got to tell her so it's a weight off my mind to a certain extent.

Still feel awful a lot of the time, but at least I had three dresses and three pairs of shoes arrive in the mail today, so that's a plus.

*postman arrives dragging a huge crate of hugs with them*

Glad it went okay but sad you feel awful. Nice about the clothes though!

***

Don't forget to make those phonecalls, Phee!

[Serpentine]

I'd make it a 7-point scale modeled after the Comprehensive Psychopathological Rating Scale (CPRS), which is used in among other things depression rating scales.

Something like

Gender Dysphoria - a pervasive feeling of unease or disgust at the conventional physical and social attributes of the person's assigned sex when applied to the person. If the feeling fluctuates, use the rating for the average feeling over the past two weeks.

0 - No gender dysphoria
1
2 - Mild gender dysphoria. The feeling is present, but does not hinder you in your everyday life
3
4 -Moderate gender dysphoria. The feeling is present and causes problems for you in your everyday life.
5
6 -Crippling gender dysphoria. The feeling is so strong that you cannot live a normal life.

Reminds me of the pain chart, which could also possibly be helpful:

Spoiler

Show

[Irish Musician]

Well, as an expert on the situation, I feel safe giving you a full and complete answer.

Hell if I know.

@ Celtic - to follow up on Lix's excellent summary: don't know, don't care

Heh, fair enough And thank you both for your perspectives.

Personal note:

Spoiler

Show

Talked to my ex today for the first time in a week and half or so I think. Went ok, still hard, but at least I got to tell her so it's a weight off my mind to a certain extent.

Still feel awful a lot of the time, but at least I had three dresses and three pairs of shoes arrive in the mail today, so that's a plus.

Well, at least you are still able to talk to her and stuff, and it didn't go horribly. On a lighter note, My phone's text ringtone is George Takei's "Ooooh Myyyy", and it went off right as that dress you linked finished loading. Appropriate, because that is what I thought when I saw it

Obviously this is only my personal experience, but to me I would say it's entirely mental/spiritual. My body doesn't feel uncomfortable with itself; my body is just a body. But my mind and soul realize that it's the wrong kind of body, which is what causes all of the problems. I'm trying to think of a good analogy like SiuiS did, but I keep pulling a blank.

Also, please note that I have a tendancy to couch everything in spiritual terms, so I'm probably not the best source of scientific data on the subject.

Makes sense to me, Phee, but I also tend to think of things in spiritual terms as well. I mean, I love my science too, but I also love my spirituality as well. Thank you for sharing.

You know, Lixie, until I looked at your gender symbol, I had completely forgotten that you were trans, too. I just keep thinking of you as that silly girl who everyone here loves.

I don't know whether I should be apologizing for that, or congratulating you. So please let me know .

~Phoenix~

Seconded!! *pull Lixie out form under the Desk to bask in her girlyness*

Well, everyone is going to frame their dysphoria in their own way; but the thing is, the brain is just as much physical as the rest of the body, so does the mind / body duality make sense? I don't know. Remember this that I linked a while back? (Trigger warning: trans identity stuff, it's really sad. >.> ) But then again, we do place a higher importance on the brain, even if it's just an organ because we respect individuality. We treat each other's as individuals, we care about the individuals, about the particular brain setup, and not about the bodies themselves.

And not all dysphoria is bodily. Tons of people have social dysphoria as well, and that's a bit harder to peg down as a purely bodily issue?

Ok, thank you for sharing as well. All of this is very much helping me understand and also helping me reealize that it is a much more complex subject that I thought. Obivously it isn't simple, but just hearing you guys talk about it in so many different ways makes me realize how much you all go through, not only in terms of society, but also just within yourselves.

Thanks all for sharing, and always will be here for hugz and support

~Matthew~

[Absol197]

I'd make it a 7-point scale modeled after the Comprehensive Psychopathological Rating Scale (CPRS), which is used in among other things depression rating scales.

Something like

Gender Dysphoria - a pervasive feeling of unease or disgust at the conventional physical and social attributes of the person's assigned sex when applied to the person. If the feeling fluctuates, use the rating for the average feeling over the past two weeks.

0 - No gender dysphoria
1
2 - Mild gender dysphoria. The feeling is present, but does not hinder you in your everyday life
3
4 -Moderate gender dysphoria. The feeling is present and causes problems for you in your everyday life.
5
6 -Crippling gender dysphoria. The feeling is so strong that you cannot live a normal life.

Hmm...So, going by your scale, I'd put myself at a 2 or 3 generally, but I can spike all the way up to 4 or 5 on occasion.

Remember this that I linked a while back? (Trigger warning: trans identity stuff, it's really sad. >.> )

No, don't link to that again! Not only is it really (really, really, really) sad, at least for me, but the technical and ethical discussions afterwards took up pages and pages!
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it's not exactly something that everyone wants to get involved in.

Don't forget to make those phonecalls, Phee!

Hey, you remembered to remind me to remember! Yes, yes, I'll get to those. I have to get off work first, though...

Seconded!! *pull Lixie out form under the Desk to bask in her girlyness*

Uh. I'll tell you when I come out from under my desk.

So, Lixie...you were saying ?


~Phoenix~

[Lix Lorn]

Reminds me of the pain chart, which could also possibly be helpful:

Spoiler

Show

...I once got a 6. Maybe a 7. Toothache is NASTY, kids.
(Ice cream headaches are also 6 or 7, but they go away after five seconds at the most )

Seconded!! *pull Lixie out form under the Desk to bask in her girlyness*

(clings to frame)

Hmm...So, going by your scale, I'd put myself at a 2 or 3 generally, but I can spike all the way up to 4 or 5 on occasion.

Define PROBLEMS. Do you mean it interferes in some notable* way, or does just affecting your state of mind and happiness count?

*I have no idea what word I want here, but this isn't really it.

So, Lixie...you were saying ?

You misunderstand... I keep a BED under this desk. >////////>

[Irish Musician]

(clings to frame)

Challenge Accepted
*Commence Epic Tickling to get the Lixie off of the Desk*

~Matthew~

[Kindablue]

Should I be bothered that I'm not bothered by them? I can't articulate why it doesn't shake my love for the genre, I do know why but I just can't find the words for it. But I, myself, have been known to use a homophobic slur as an insult in my time but until my friend's outrage I didn't think much of it.

I really don't see that as a special problem of the genre anymore. The slurs and put downs don't seem genuine to me in the literal sense; they really mean to hurt and offend people, but the people saying them don't really find gays disgusting, they just know that ****** is going to cut deeper than dummy. It's interesting that you brought up Earl; Frank Ocean's gay (or something), and as far as I saw the rest of Odd Future (and most of the rest of the hip hop community) was totally supportive when he came out.

[Castaras]

Reminds me of the pain chart, which could also possibly be helpful:
*snip*

I prefer this one:

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0: Hi. I am not experiencing any pain at all. I don't know why I'm even here.

1: I am completely unsure whether I am experiencing pain or itching or maybe I just have a bad taste in my mouth.

2: I probably just need a Band Aid.

3: This is distressing. I don't want this to be happening to me at all.

4: My pain is not @!£"ing around.

5: Why is this happening to me??

6: Ow. Okay, my pain is super legit now.

7: I see Jesus coming for me and I'm scared.

8: I am experiencing a disturbing amount of pain. I might actually be dying. Please help.

9: I am almost definitely dying.

10: I am actively being mauled by a bear.

11: Blood is going to explode out of my face at any moment.

Too Serious For Numbers: You probably have ebola. It appears that you may also be suffering from Stigmata and/or pinkeye.

Source: Hyperbole and a Half

[Coidzor]

I have no idea what you're talking about .

Since you didn't retroactively put them into the OP I'd suggest that you look upthread and downthread a little bit from where you last quoted me and you'll see the entire discussion of them as well as a link to a blog post defining them.

[Mina Kobold]

*Jumps out of the closest*

HEY! Ok, now that is over with. Hiya, new here, not to the forums. Or the outside of the closet for that matter. I feel like I should say something else but can't think of anything at the moment.

Hi! You do not have to say anything, just being here is perfectly fine.

Hi! I'm not new but I've been gone for a very long time, so it's almost like being new. We can be new together.

Hi to you too, hope everything is as fun as it was back then. ^_^

My friend was shocked, shocked, when he discovered I was gay. Not because I'm the picture of masculinity (which I am) but because I am quite the avid listener of hip hop which, as you know, is not the most tolerant of genres (lyrically speaking) and it got me thinking...

Should I be bothered that I'm not bothered by them? I can't articulate why it doesn't shake my love for the genre, I do know why but I just can't find the words for it. But I, myself, have been known to use a homophobic slur as an insult in my time but until my friend's outrage I didn't think much of it.

I need someone to tell me to steer the course so I can listen to music again without getting distracted by pondering my own tact and etiquette (and some of the deeper issues that implies). Will I never be able to listen to Earl Sweatshirt again?

EDIT: Though in Earl's case I think the homophobia might be the least of his problems.

It really depends on the person. Some listen to music purely for the sound, considering the lyrics meaningless compared to the harmony of the music itself (Some bands, like AC/DC, are built on that concept) while others need the lyrics to mean something to them to enjoy it. Most are in between and some are entirely different, but there is no inherent harm in any of them. Just enjoy what you enjoy.

It is a good idea to be careful not to play something loudly that others may be hurt by, or to give the impression that you support something you oppose, though. Perhaps you could wear headphones for the stuff you are afraid may cause someone to be afraid or hurt? That way, you can explain your opinion if anyone asks. Or you could get a shirt with a message about it! ^_^

Bear in mind that I am a very lyric-central Kobold who does not like Hip Hop, so my opinions are not without need for salt. :3

Personal note:

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Talked to my ex today for the first time in a week and half or so I think. Went ok, still hard, but at least I got to tell her so it's a weight off my mind to a certain extent.

Still feel awful a lot of the time, but at least I had three dresses and three pairs of shoes arrive in the mail today, so that's a plus.

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Hope it gets better soon, it is sad to hear that it is still so hard for you. It does show that you are an incredibly amazing person, but it is sad all the while.

Congrats on the dresses, they look preeetty. *w*

[Lentrax]

So many people, so little time to read(especially with a computer acting up.)

So, for everyone who posted good news: Yay! I am so happy for you!
For everyone who posted bad news: *hugs, age-apporpriate beverages, and cake are also available.(taking seconds is okay, and is in fact, encouraged*

For everyone who is new: Hi! *glomp*

For the thread: *HUGS*

(and cake)