Is an Acre to much land to give to a party?

[Telonius]

In the mountains, not worth very much.

If it were between the salt water and the sea strand, it could be priceless to the right buyer.

[Amphetryon]

In the mountains, not worth very much.

If it were between the salt water and the sea strand, it could be priceless to the right buyer.

*golf clap*

[Segev]

Given the description as being rocky, mountainous, etc., I can only assume this land is out in the wilderness. At which point, I almost wonder who has the right to "give" that acre. That kind of terrain in most game settings will tend to be unowned and open to simply being CLAIMED.

But assuming it really is parceled out and owned, one acre is practically nothing in the kind of terrain described; it sounds like wilderness surrounded by wilderness. An acre of that is negligible. You could literally squat on it and people might not realize for decades.

Wait seriously? I'm almost tempted to buy an acre or two just for the sake of saying I own land in Texas.

Be aware that Texas has no income tax, and makes up for it by having some of the higher property tax in the country.

I think one of my Exalted had an acre-sized palanquin. I seem to recall forbidding my slaves to put wheels on it to make hauling it around easier. Because then it would be a wagon, and only peasants get carried around in a wagon.

Bah. You're not a REAL Exalt unless you have demon-slaves carrying your acre-sized palanquin. If you can get Octavian to do it by himself, you're actually living up to your potential!

If it were between the salt water and the sea strand, it could be priceless to the right buyer.

Mostly, true lovers of mines.

[kyoryu]

As a point of comparison, an acre is roughly the size of a football field.

If it were between the salt water and the sea strand, it could be priceless to the right buyer.

I've got a shirt without any seams or needlework, too!

Mostly, true lovers of mines.

I think the implication is she wasn't ;)

[Mastikator]

An alternative is to just give them money with the option to buy land. I like playing house but I can see some players not liking that and preferring adventuring so they'd just see land as a burden, even if it was a lot of good land.

[Elvenoutrider]

A gift of land that would not be useful or even reachable was actually not necessarily an insult as it actually raises the pcs to the status of landowners which would allow them to appear in court and discuss political issues with the noble's. For hundreds of years the English and French would actually grant allies lands in the other country that they would theoretically hold of either country were taken by the reigning monarch. This would lead to all sorts of complications years later when wars did break out, noble's would switch sides and then two families could end up legally owning the same plot of land

[LibraryOgre]

A couple other old units of land measurement for reference.

A virgate, which was notionally 30 acres, was considered the amount a single team of oxen could plow in a season.

A hide, which was notionally about 120 acres, was considered enough to support a household.

These two varied according to land quality... low quality land would require a far larger space to support a household.

In short? The acre probably isn't bad for an inn or personal residence, but is not much for anything else.

[VoxRationis]

Tiny parcels of land give you an 'in' to the nobility. Who knows, maybe your PCs' children will be fostered with the daughters of a Lord Paramount, and they'll develop romantic attachments which will lead to the children plotting to spark a civil war, manipulating the royal court to give them land after land and title after title.

[The Glyphstone]

A gift of land that would not be useful or even reachable was actually not necessarily an insult as it actually raises the pcs to the status of landowners which would allow them to appear in court and discuss political issues with the noble's. For hundreds of years the English and French would actually grant allies lands in the other country that they would theoretically hold of either country were taken by the reigning monarch. This would lead to all sorts of complications years later when wars did break out, noble's would switch sides and then two families could end up legally owning the same plot of land

It does depend on the specifics of the land, though. An acre of prime farmland in the middle of the enemy kingdom's heartland is practically useless, but in theory it's quite valuable and symbolically it is an excellent gift. An acre of muddy silt at the bottom of a lakebed is the same quantity of land, but worthless no matter which way you look at it, and thus of far less value symbolically to the point of being a backhanded insult if it's a "gift". In this case, an acre of mountainous/hilly terrain with a magically poisonous taint on it is far closer to the 'bottom of the lakebed' end of the spectrum in land quality.

[Beleriphon]

For comparison purposes a plot of lad provided in Upper Canada to settlers was upwards of 100 acres as their personal farm.

[Elvenoutrider]

It really depends on who is getting the useless land. If you gift the useless land to an existing landowner it is definitely a snub. If you gift it to someone who does not have land, it gives them political power and the right to marry into other noble houses. It is actually a great gift for a rich merchant that would cost the gifting party essentially nothing.

[bulbaquil]

Right. I'll amend my previous comment:

If the party doesn't own land already, then gifting them even bad land elevates them to the gentry, which is a big deal in and of itself.

If the party does own land already, it's an insult of the "backhanded compliment" variety.

[CharonsHelper]

While others have said the actual size - I don't think that anyone has put it in context. Traditionally an acre was the amount of land which a farmer could plow in one day.

[Traab]

It really depends on who is getting the useless land. If you gift the useless land to an existing landowner it is definitely a snub. If you gift it to someone who does not have land, it gives them political power and the right to marry into other noble houses. It is actually a great gift for a rich merchant that would cost the gifting party essentially nothing.

I was actually just thinking this. In and of itself its worthless land. What matters is the implication. You are now a landowner. That puts you up at least a rank or two on most social orders. Yes those with thousands of acres and entire towns to their name will snigger and scoff at your tiny parcel, but you are still moving on up, to the east side. To a deluxe apartment, in the sky (if you have the right spells handy) Which makes you better than a landless vagabond, or a bloody peasant bound to his lords land having to deal with the violence inherent in the system.

Now, if that was the goal of the reward then mission accomplished, it counts as a reward. If the goal was to basically unload some worthless garbage and the heroes were dumb enough to accept it, then not so much. If they are going to either ignore its existence as not worth dealing with then it is a meaningless reward, you might as well declared them to be supreme mugwumps and high muckety mucks of the loyal order of the water buffalo. Its more of a meta game insult because you are "giving" them something that doesnt exist, has no benefit, and is utterly meaningless.

[Pugwampy]

Wow thats so cute . A whole acre of land .

I am gonna give my players an underground dwarf fortress at the end of a basic game mod .

Do i believe they will sell it ? No they will not , they will move into it and pick their own rooms and decorate it and play house . Players like owning club houses . In the big picture of leveling up , killing monsters and.... repeat , this sort of reward is nothing .
Lets assume the worst and a capitalist PC group wants to sell it well ....who says anyone is interested or can even afford that ?

I am far more nervous about coughing up a Frostbrand to a capable fighter player .

[SethoMarkus]

It also depends on the politcal-economic structure of the setting. If this is a feudal society of fiefdom, then owning land grants a title and allows entry into the realm of the nobility. If it is a more frontier, colonialist setting, that land is now technically owned by the PCs, which is nice, but isn't really enough to do anything with and its condition is squarely in the backhanded compliment zone (unless the gift-giver wasn't aware of the condition). If it is set up like a more modern capitalist society where land ownership is common enough to not warrant any special status or privileges, it is certainly an insult and is more a punishment than a gift, especially if there are taxes to pay on it. That isn't saying that resourceful players won't polish that dirt into a diamond, and any amount of land can be a great boon or a non-gift depending on how the players decide to run with it, but under no circumstance would I say one acre is too much.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Guys what if we're looking at this the wrong way? What if this is an ant game and all the PCs are ants? An acre is probably too much to grant to an all-ant party, yes.

[khadgar567]

Guys what if we're looking at this the wrong way? What if this is an ant game and all the PCs are ants? An acre is probably too much to grant to an all-ant party, yes.

I dont think ant can be an adventurer

[Kid Jake]

I dont think ant can be an adventurer

That's racist.

[LooseCannoneer]

I dont think ant can be an adventurer

But they qualify for the antventurer prestige class. That has to count for something.

[Traab]

I dont think ant can be an adventurer

So they take a con penalty due to their small size, big deal, they are a race with natural bonuses to tracking and stealth, and they can and will sneak attack you before you even know they are around. They are born thieves, carrying off anything they can find, and are masters of the art of war from invading other tribes of antmen and the dreaded termitus clan.

[The Glyphstone]

A part of Ant Rogues with the Swarm Fighting feat will mulch any level-appropriate counter in a single round with surprise.

[RickAllison]

Another way to look at it is a test. Maybe the noble who gave it to them (or a friend) wants to see what the party does with it. Will they simply let it rot or sell it (shows they lack responsibility and/or will not settle down)? Turn it into a stronghold to raid goblin villages (maybe these PCs could make great officers of a border fort...)? Turn it into a thriving location through mining, a way post, or some other attraction (they have ambition and initiative, maybe I should appoint them stewards of some lackluster portions of my estate and see how they turn it around)? Fail in their attempts, but persevere (lots of endurance, don't give up in the face of adversity)? There are lots of things a noble can learn from how they treat that little parcel of land...

[The Glyphstone]

The problem being that the parcel in question is tiny, as we've noted already. There was a picture posted for actual visual scale above - it's big enough for a comfortable one-family house with a large front yard and that's it. Not enough to actually build anything useful on.

[RickAllison]

The problem being that the parcel in question is tiny, as we've noted already. There was a picture posted for actual visual scale above - it's big enough for a comfortable one-family house with a large front yard and that's it. Not enough to actually build anything useful on.

That's where the challenge comes from!

[BayardSPSR]

Acre's more than five square miles, according to Google, so it seems like a pretty generous offer. Are you planning on giving them just the old town, or the modern sprawl as well?

[RickAllison]

Acre's more than five square miles, according to Google, so it seems like a pretty generous offer. Are you planning on giving them just the old town, or the modern sprawl as well?

Ummmmm, no... More like 1/640th of a square mile.

[BRC]

Ummmmm, no... More like 1/640th of a square mile.

Nah, the math checks out.

[RickAllison]

Nah, the math checks out.

Oh wow....

[TheYell]

I think it would be more realistic to grant them the whole tainted mountainside and let them worry about making some profitable use of it -- and keeping off neighboring nobles if they succeed.

Estate management is one thing that separates aristos from everyone else so they have some character development ahead. Settle down and become gentry or cash out and keep adventuring with better gear?