Vote Up a Campaign Setting (3E/4E)

[Knaight]

30%, to allow for more gnolls and such, at least roaming around.

[Flame of Anor]

I'll vote for 50%. [rhetoric] Come on, people, 50% is the only percentage higher than 30% that has a chance of a comeback! Don't waste your votes on 60%, 70%, or 80%--it is only with YOUR help that we can make it 50% so the exotic races will still be exotic! If the exotic races are given free reign, then they will become common--just look at the warforged! They were supposed to be cool weird robot things, but now they're boring old every-party-must-have-one robot things. I don't want half-djinns and genasi to be like that! [/rhetoric]

And I totally agree that how many people wanted a race to be included does NOT tally with how popular it should be. Lizardfolk and gnolls should totally be the most populous, with half-djinn and genasi way down near the bottom.

[puppyavenger]

I'll vote for 50%. [rhetoric] Come on, people, 50% is the only percentage higher than 30% that has a chance of a comeback! Don't waste your votes on 60%, 70%, or 80%--it is only with YOUR help that we can make it 50% so the exotic races will still be exotic! If the exotic races are given free reign, then they will become common--just look at the warforged! They were supposed to be cool weird robot things, but now they're boring old every-party-must-have-one robot things. I don't want half-djinns and genasi to be like that! [/rhetoric]

And I totally agree that how many people wanted a race to be included does NOT tally with how popular it should be. Lizardfolk and gnolls should totally be the most populous, with half-djinn and genasi way down near the bottom.

HEY! I want gnoll tribes! what's more awesome then the Lizardfolk EMpire?

[kopout]

I'll vote for 50%. [rhetoric] Come on, people, 50% is the only percentage higher than 30% that has a chance of a comeback! Don't waste your votes on 60%, 70%, or 80%--it is only with YOUR help that we can make it 50% so the exotic races will still be exotic! If the exotic races are given free reign, then they will become common--just look at the warforged! They were supposed to be cool weird robot things, but now they're boring old every-party-must-have-one robot things. I don't want half-djinns and genasi to be like that! [/rhetoric]

.

But this makes Humans the exotic race.

[Draz74]

And I totally agree that how many people wanted a race to be included does NOT tally with how popular it should be. Lizardfolk and gnolls should totally be the most populous, with half-djinn and genasi way down near the bottom.

I agree. I will change my vote if the relative proportions of nonhuman races are changed.

[afroakuma]

*sigh* Why do I smell mutiny...

We're conferencing over what to do on this issue. It would appear that there is an inverse corrolation between the prior support of each race and the demographic breakdown that you seem to prefer.

I'm not guaranteeing any movement on our parts; I will, however, ask this: would you prefer if we inverted the demographic dispersal for non-human races?

[Fako]

*sigh* Why do I smell mutiny...

We're conferencing over what to do on this issue. It would appear that there is an inverse corrolation between the prior support of each race and the demographic breakdown that you seem to prefer.

I'm not guaranteeing any movement on our parts; I will, however, ask this: would you prefer if we inverted the demographic dispersal for non-human races?

Sounds good to me, except that Lizardfolk would have to be shifted in the order. As it stands, the only thing rarer than them with that fix would be Half-Djinn...

[Draz74]

I think the issue is more a general opinion that "Half-" races, by their nature, should be rare.

[Flame of Anor]

HEY! I want gnoll tribes! what's more awesome then the Lizardfolk Empire?

I agree that gnoll tribes and the Lizardfolk Empire would be very cool, and should totally be included. However, I (and others with me) feel that they would be cool if they still felt exotic--meaning that they weren't the norm.

But this makes Humans the exotic race.

Um...not really. 50% human is not very exotic. What it would do is strike a good balance between humans being dominant and other races being present, so that they are common enough to figure in adventures but not common enough to be boring.

Sounds good to me, except that Lizardfolk would have to be shifted in the order. As it stands, the only thing rarer than them with that fix would be Half-Djinn...

I think the issue is more a general opinion that "Half-" races, by their nature, should be rare.

My suggestion is that Lizardfolk and Gnolls be the most populous non-human races, followed by Genasi, followed by Half-Djinns and Half-Ghuls. Is this cool with everyone? (Note that I'm not giving a preference to Lizardfolk over Gnolls or to Half-Djinns over Half-Ghuls; it could be Liz/Gnl/Gen/H-Dj/H-Gh or Gnl/Liz/Gen/H-Gh/H-Dj; I'm sure you understand.)

[Owrtho]

It could be a vote like for Thematic Priorities, where you vote for the order of commonness wanted. Anyways, I agree that lizardfolk/gnolls should be most common non-humans, but feel that half-djinn and half-ghuls should be more common than genasi, even if only slightly (for example, if 50% humans one, I'd prefer a ration of about 15% gnoll, 15% lizardfolk, 7% half-ghul, 7% half-djinn, and 6% genasi. That is however just my opinion and a vague approximation, not precise values).

Owrtho

[afroakuma]

My major problem with doing this is that changing the racial parities in the next vote may change how people wished to respond to this vote, effectively forcing a do-over.

[Cyclone231]

40%, though the "% proportional to vote" thing seems ridiculously silly.

Half-Djinn and half-ghuls are more common than humans in the 30% vote? Uh... how does that work exactly?

[Flame of Anor]

It could be a vote like for Thematic Priorities, where you vote for the order of commonness wanted. Anyways, I agree that lizardfolk/gnolls should be most common non-humans, but feel that half-djinn and half-ghuls should be more common than genasi, even if only slightly.

Alright, I'll pare it down to the simplest possible:

Humans <are more common than>
Lizardfolk and Gnolls <are more common than>
Genasi, Half-Djinn, and Half-Ghuls

Does this work for everybody?

I agree with Afroakuma that this shouldn't be a vote, because that would mess it up, and I think that just hitting on (not that kind!) a prioritization of races that most or all are fine with is the best way to deal with this.

That said, vote 50%!

[afroakuma]

That said, vote 50%!

Rule 3. Please do not break it.

Zeta, Shadow and I will discuss what to do about this issue. When we originally implemented it, we didn't expect that so many part-human races would make the cut, nor in such proportions. However, we can do the setting either way. I don't cite a preference for either or, and we may well decide to retain the status quo. Just so you're all aware.

[Fako]

Zeta, Shadow and I will discuss what to do about this issue. When we originally implemented it, we didn't expect that so many part-human races would make the cut, nor in such proportions. However, we can do the setting either way. I don't cite a preference for either or, and we may well decide to retain the status quo. Just so you're all aware.

It's fair, but it's not like we have a choice anyways After all, you three are the masterminds, we only have our say where it is allowed... it might be interesting to see an area populated by more half-breeds than other races...

[Juhn]

I agree with most of the people in this thread: populace should not reflect the previous vote. We voted for things like Half-Djinn, Half-Ghul and Genasi because they were cool and unused and we wanted to see them make the cut. That vote was a "if they make it then they will be playable" vote. People voted so much for (as an example) half-djinn because they thought they were cool and fit the setting's theme. However, some of these races were cool precisely because they should be rare? How many djinn (again, as an example) do you genuinely think would choose to have children with humans? Probably not many, and not nearly as many as there should be Gnolls and Lizardfolk, since these are their own respective species with (I hope) their own respective cultures.

I don't mean to offend here, and I realize you guys probably just wanted to cut down on your considerable workload by deciding population in such a manner (which is something I can understand), but to be honest it strikes me as something dishonest (again, I don't think it was your intention to be). We voted based on who we wanted included. If this vote was also supposed to reflect relative population, we should have been told - we should have known everything we were voting for when we were asked to pick the races.

As far as my actual vote goes, I'm going to withhold it until this business gets settled.

[afroakuma]

I agree with most of the people in this thread: populace should not reflect the previous vote. We voted for things like Half-Djinn, Half-Ghul and Genasi because they were cool and unused and we wanted to see them make the cut. That vote was a "if they make it then they will be playable" vote. People voted so much for (as an example) half-djinn because they thought they were cool and fit the setting's theme. However, some of these races were cool precisely because they should be rare? How many djinn (again, as an example) do you genuinely think would choose to have children with humans? Probably not many, and not nearly as many as there should be Gnolls and Lizardfolk, since these are their own respective species with (I hope) their own respective cultures.

I don't mean to offend here, and I realize you guys probably just wanted to cut down on your considerable workload by deciding population in such a manner (which is something I can understand), but to be honest it strikes me as something dishonest (again, I don't think it was your intention to be). We voted based on who we wanted included. If this vote was also supposed to reflect relative population, we should have been told - we should have known everything we were voting for when we were asked to pick the races.

We originally believed that the humanoid races would garnr much of the voting, with one or two of the new ones and not nearly as much support for genasi, tieflings and aasimar (certainly not all three.) The expectation was that elves, dwarves, orcs etc. wouldn't be such a big deal to toss around percentagewise.

Unfortunately, this decision came about rather late in the process. There was nothing dishonest about it - had we known at the time, we would have so informed you. By the time the votes had reached sky-high proportions, we were still expecting this method to work and gearing up the next two days' voting tables.

We are currently deliberating how to have the races fall.

[Flame of Anor]

3. Please do not criticize or disparage the votes of other forum members. Let the votes fall where they may. It’s a campaign setting, & as such, there will be room enough for everyone’s opinions. So just be patient, & allow other voters to voice their own opinions.

Rule 3. Please do not break it.

If I broke this rule, I'm sorry, but I don't think I did. All I did was promote my viewpoint; I didn't say anyone else was stupid or wrong for espousing theirs. As for "allow[ing] other voters to voice their own opinions," I would hazard that you're coming closer to stretching that part than I am. But, again, I'm sorry if I was out of line.



(That said, vote--naaah, just messing with you. )

[afroakuma]

Let the votes fall where they may.

Second time I've caught you campaigning for 50%, unless I missed my guess. Once is perhaps forgivable. Twice is the fire-elemental piranhas.

I can understand some advocacy for your own voting position. I'm just asking that you try to keep it to a minimum. The voting's anarchic enough as-is.

[Zeta Kai]

As for the above debate, I skimmed it, got the highlights from Afro, & I stand by whatever he said. BTW, all vote are currently tallied.

[Juhn]

We originally believed that the humanoid races would garnr much of the voting, with one or two of the new ones and not nearly as much support for genasi, tieflings and aasimar (certainly not all three.) The expectation was that elves, dwarves, orcs etc. wouldn't be such a big deal to toss around percentagewise.

Unfortunately, this decision came about rather late in the process. There was nothing dishonest about it - had we known at the time, we would have so informed you. By the time the votes had reached sky-high proportions, we were still expecting this method to work and gearing up the next two days' voting tables.

We are currently deliberating how to have the races fall.

I figured you guys wouldn't do it deliberately - you guys are very fair in all I've seen. It also probably wouldn't have been a big deal, if so many of the races weren't cross-breeds. For example, having lots of gnolls or lots of lizardmen isn't hard to imagine - one assumes they've had their own lands and culture (however rudimentary) for however long. Cross-breeds are not so easy, especially when the other half is outsider (or undead, if I interpret Ghul correctly). There's a big difference between a half-elf and a half-celestial where how common they are is concerned, and rightly so.

Essentially I agree with Flame of Anor's assessment. Have three tiers. Humans are the most populous, followed by lizardmen and gnolls, followed by the cross-breed races. Lizardmen and Gnoll proportionate populations could be determined by number of votes garnered if you still want to go with that. I'd go with what makes the most sense, but there isn't anything in logic that dictates that gnolls would be more populous than lizardmen or vice versa, from what I can tell.

As far as the cross-breeds go, logically Genasi should be the most populous if I'm interpreting them correctly. They only need trace elemental/efreet/whathaveyou blood. This ancestor could be (and probably is) generations up. It is not too much of a stretch to assume the half-efreet or whoever in the generation following the djinni/elemental ancestor could find a human to have children with, and as the outsider blood becomes less apparent/more diluted over the generations, finding humans to marry wouldn't be difficult.

Now, finding someone half-djinn or half-ghul should logically be more difficult than finding someone with djinn/elemental blood somewhere in their bloodline. As far as which happens more often (half-djinn or half-ghul), that can be decided in any way you see fit without it being a stretch, as I don't see any logical reasoning saying which one should be more populous than the other.

[afroakuma]

We have reached a verdict on the racial dispersion. I think it will satisfy a majory of you. The determination will be posted in due course.

There will be no vote on the racial dispersion, apart from the human component which is being voted on now.

[Sereg]

I am going to vote for 40%. It probably won't win, but after looking at the table I've decided that I don't have a prefferance between 30% and 50% which are likely to win and 40% would still be ideal for me.

[Juhn]

...I honestly don't know how to vote when it comes to the human percentage. I seem to find the amount of power that each faction holds to be more important than what their numbers are, and I'm far more concerned that the other races are properly proportioned, as it pertains to purposes of population.

[afroakuma]

The other races are properly proportioned, rest assured.

If power is what you're really looking at, then don't worry. Down the line there will be a vote that pertains to that element. This vote is really more about diversity of culture(s).

[Juhn]

...Yeah, that last sentence was mostly for the alliteration value.

As far as diversity goes, population is still not as important to me as how much influence each race has, as well as how much contact each race has with the others. But I suppose a lot of this is just me justifying to myself my not voting in this section (considering how awesome this setting promises to be, I seem to have a compulsive need to have a hand in making it) apart from really not having a clue what to vote for.

[afroakuma]

Consider yourself thus justified.

Two to four steps down the road, a relevant vote should be running relating to exactly what you want to see.

At the moment, I'm aware of what tomorrow's vote will be, and the likely choice for Sunday.

[Flame of Anor]

We have reached a verdict on the racial dispersion. I think it will satisfy a majory of you. The determination will be posted in due course.

There will be no vote on the racial dispersion, apart from the human component which is being voted on now.

I congratulate you on this decision, which will help to avert anarchy.

[UnChosenOne]

I change my vote from 30% to 50%.

[Satyr]

I would also like to change my vote from 70% to 50% if it is not too inconvenient.