Warhammer 40K Tabletop XII: "Now in Rapid Fire range!"

[Squark]

Aren't Combiplasmas the same price as Plasmaguns and flatout inferior? What's your reasoning for taking Combi?

And at least it's not 205pts you would have spent on Necron Warriors :p

nitpicking here; That's 180 pts. Necron Warriors are pretty much always 10 to a squad, completely vanilla (And if they're not vanilla, you're doing it wrong. Disruption Fields on warriors are useless)

[Razaele]

I'm pretty sure that Rhinos and Razorbacks are about the only things that do not allow Terminators to embark. I could be wrong though, it might have been addressed in a FAQ or something.

Anyway, what do you guys think about the army? Does it have any glaring weaknesses that I missed? What about Thrawn?

[Wraith]

I'm pretty sure that Rhinos and Razorbacks are about the only things that do not allow Terminators to embark. I could be wrong though, it might have been addressed in a FAQ or something.

With my Codex: Grey Knights to hand, and until the errata is released I can confirm that Terminators CAN ride inside a Chimera, however they cannot be bought as Dedicated Transports for the Squad.
Therefore the Chimera will have to be bought for the Inquisitor/his retinue, and the Terminators then embark during the first turn rather than deployment.

Anyway, what do you guys think about the army? Does it have any glaring weaknesses that I missed? What about Thrawn?

Although many people complain about 'cookie cutter' lists, I like symmetrical armies like yours. A big unit of Grey Knights in a Rhino is a good unit in both shooting and melee with good armour and very useful abilities - why not take three of them? It's not like you're playing a vanilla Marines army that would greatly benefit from a selection of Tactical Squads and Assault Marines, as yours are just about as good as both combined.

You do seem to be struggling for anti-armour weaponry, though. If your local community is anything like mine, I know that you're likely to face at least a few armies featuring heavy tanks even at 1500pts, so it might be a good idea to send the Terminators out with a Daemonhammer just in case you come across someone trying to be clever and fielding a Leman Russ or something similar.
For the same reason and because you have enough points left over, I personally would have one of the Dreadnoughts become a Lascannon/Missile Launcher combination just to be on the safe side, but then I just happen to really like Missile Launchers on my Dreadnoughts.

As for Thrawn, I think you should take him for three reasons.
One is that he is a bargain for what he is, which is an objective-squatting unit that has Monty Python-esque durability which is a really great thing to have in an army that usually has to be pushing forward a lot.
The second is that he costs only as much as 2 Terminators, and if you instead take two Terminators then they and the Librarian will no longer fit inside your Chimera (capacity: 12 models, Terminator Armour counts as 2:1).
And thirdly, I never pass up an opportunity to seriously annoy my opponent and have them lose focus enough to spend an entire turn shooting at 1 model rather than the rest of my army....

[Craftworld]

As for Thrawn, I think you should take him for three reasons.
One is that he is a bargain for what he is, which is an objective-squatting unit that has Monty Python-esque durability which is a really great thing to have in an army that usually has to be pushing forward a lot.
The second is that he costs only as much as 2 Terminators, and if you instead take two Terminators then they and the Librarian will no longer fit inside your Chimera (capacity: 12 models, Terminator Armour counts as 2:1).
And thirdly, I never pass up an opportunity to seriously annoy my opponent and have them lose focus enough to spend an entire turn shooting at 1 model rather than the rest of my army....

Who is Thrawn?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Who is Thrawn?

Justicar Thrawn. Some special character unit upgrade. Can self ressurect.

[Incomp]

You do seem to be struggling for anti-armour weaponry, though. If your local community is anything like mine, I know that you're likely to face at least a few armies featuring heavy tanks even at 1500pts, so it might be a good idea to send the Terminators out with a Daemonhammer just in case you come across someone trying to be clever and fielding a Leman Russ or something similar.
For the same reason and because you have enough points left over, I personally would have one of the Dreadnoughts become a Lascannon/Missile Launcher combination just to be on the safe side, but then I just happen to really like Missile Launchers on my Dreadnoughts.

But...why not take psybolt autocannons then? It's like a squad of missile launcher devastators, only the missiles are twin-linked!

To be fair, they'll bounce right off marines, but it's killing tanks we're talking about here.

[Tarinaky]

My favourite tactic with Greyknights is an Autocannon/Heavy Flamer Dreadnought (Psyflame and Psybolt ammo) loaded onto the back of a Stormraven.

Have the Raven drop the dreaddy behind or to the side of a tank where even the S6 flamer stands a decent chance of making a dent. Failing that you've still got a Powerfist to try.

After that the Dreadnought is free to use the Heavy Flamer to introduce the nastiness of Autohit-Wound-On-2+ to the masses.

[Wraith]

But...why not take psybolt autocannons then? It's like a squad of missile launcher devastators, only the missiles are twin-linked!

To be fair, they'll bounce right off marines, but it's killing tanks we're talking about here.

It's for that reason that I wouldn't want all three Dreadnoughts with Autocannons. With or without Psybolt Ammunition, you're still rolling 2+ to wound, they get a save, and there are too few Marine models with more then 1W to really, really need to cause Instant Death.
I would rather save those points and put them towards a Lascannon or two. It'll be more reliable against the one or two heavier tanks that I'd come across, and can reliably blow away the occasional Terminator or Special Character to boot.

I guess it depends on your metagame. s8 AP4 Heavy 2/Twin-Linked may or may not be preferable to s8 AP3 Heavy 1 + s9 AP2 Heavy 1, but I just happen to like Missile Launchers for their versatility.

[Tome]

Yeah, three Psyrifleman Dreads is probably a bit of overkill. I'd replace one with either the suggested Lascannon/Missile Launcher Dread or a Purgation Squad with Incinerators or Psycannons in a Rhino.

[Turcano]

I believe Terminators explicitly state they are treated as two models and may not embark in Rhinos or Razorbacks, with no mention of any other vehicles. Chimeras are fair game.

If Terminators can't fit in Rhinos or Razorbacks, how in the Emperor's name are they supposed to fit in a Chimera?

[Squark]

If Terminators can't fit in Rhinos or Razorbacks, how in the Emperor's name are they supposed to fit in a Chimera?

Presumably because there ain't no rule against it. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets errata'd, though.

(Pardon my TvTropes)

[Nameless Ghost]

If Terminators can't fit in Rhinos or Razorbacks, how in the Emperor's name are they supposed to fit in a Chimera?

Because 12 Guardsmen take up more space than 10 Space Marines. Apparently.

[Kraggi]

Guardsmen just really need their personal space respected, ok? Jeez.

[Renegade Paladin]

You can jam Ogryns in a Chimera, and they're bigger than Terminators.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Turns out I was confused by the Imperial Guard FAQ banning Terminators from riding in Valkyries/Vendettas.

Comment withdrawn.

[Ninja Chocobo]

I guess it depends on your metagame. s8 AP4 Heavy 2/Twin-Linked may or may not be preferable to s8 AP3 Heavy 1 + s9 AP2 Heavy 1, but I just happen to like Missile Launchers for their versatility.

Point of order, Heavy 4 Twin-linked.

[Razaele]

Actually, the Terminators don't really need a Hammer since my Librarian has Might of Titan. In our meta game, for some reason players don't like bringing things with Psychic Hoods so my chances of pulling this off are pretty good.

Thanks for the compliment, I do try to synergise my units as much as possible. I actually would have taken another 10 man Strike Squad if it were not for the Librarian. His Terminator armor prevents him from riding with the Strike Squad, so I gave him a squad of Terminators to hang out with so he wouldn't feel left out. Or would it be better if I just gave him a full 10 man Strike Squad and made them walk?

I've actually taken the Missile Launcher/Lascannon build into consideration, but its more expensive than the Psyfleman build. Sure, I lose the ability to vaporize marines instantly, but I think that's a fair enough trade for the value that I'm getting. Also, I am considering taking a squad of Servitors and Jokaeros so that I'll at least have some Lascannons.

Is 3 Psyfleman Dreads really overkill? I get that once all of my enemy's vehicles have been destroyed/made useless they're going to be pretty much just shooting at infantry, something that isn't that great in a meta game filled with Power Armor. But I've always felt that 2 Psyfleman Dreads were too few to be able to do much, especially if my opponent is lucky enough to kill them early on. I could be wrong though. Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

[Hawkfrost000]

Actually, the Terminators don't really need a Hammer since my Librarian has Might of Titan. In our meta game, for some reason players don't like bringing things with Psychic Hoods so my chances of pulling this off are pretty good.

and if your librarian decides to suck on his attacks?

redundancy is good

DM

[Razaele]

and if your librarian decides to suck on his attacks?

redundancy is good

DM

Actually, the entire squad is affected by Might of Titan.

[Renegade Paladin]

Point of order, Heavy 4 Twin-linked.

Point of fact: This is not a point of order, but a point of fact.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Point of fact: This is not a point of order, but a point of fact.

...
Good point.

[Hootman]

Ok, this weekend the tournament will be up to 1500 points, and since I have to take on people I haven't fought yet, it'll be my Space Marines VS Necrons, Dark Eldar, or Space Wolves/Imperial Guard (I know the guy has both armies, not sure which he's playing)

This is the list I've come up with so far...because I couldn't figure out a way I wanted to do a list with Tacticals. I'm honestly not sure how I ever did it, what with a Tactical squad being some 70 points more expensive once they have their Rhino and special weapons. Anyways, what would you suggest I change, if anything? I'm not really sold on the Thunderfire Cannon, because of its fragility, but I wasn't sure what to use those 100 points I had left for. Maybe reduce one or two other things, replace it with a Predator with some Las on it?

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Librarian, 140pts
-Terminator Armor, Storm Shield
-Powers: Force Dome, Vortex of Doom

ELITES
Sternguard 10, 335pts
-Heavy Flamer, 8 Combi-meltas
+Drop Pod

TROOPS
Scouts 10, 175pts
-Combat Squad A: 1 Sergeant with Powerfist & Shotgun, 4 Shotguns
-Combat Squad B: 4 Snipers, 1 Missile Launcher

Scouts 10, 150pts
-Snipers, 1 Missile Launcher

Scouts 10, 150pts
-Snipers, 1 Missile Launcher

FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder Storm, 60pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Contains Scout Combat Squad A

HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastators 5, 150pts
-4 Missile Launchers

Devastators 5, 150pts
-4 Missile Launchers

Thunderfire Cannon, 100pts

ALLIES
Inquisitor Lord, 90pts
-Bolter, Psychic Hood, Psyocculum
-Power: Hammer of the Witches
EDIT: As was pointed out below, this guy isn't legal. He either has to be a plain Inquisitor and 70pts, or I ditch some things to buy him at least 3 Henchmen. Which way should I go with this?

TOTAL: 1500 points.

[Closet_Skeleton]

For only 10 points less than a space marine librarian I'm not sure the inquisitor lord is worth it.

He's also illegal since there's a three henchman minimum on lord level inquisitors.

[Hootman]

For only 10 points less than a space marine librarian I'm not sure the inquisitor lord is worth it.

He's also illegal since there's a three henchman minimum on lord level inquisitors.

...Shoot, I KNEW there was a reason I originally had him with a unit of henchmen. I guess he'll have to be either a plain Inquisitor, or pick up some cronies. Unfortunately, my Thunderfire cannon will probably have to get turned into them, if that's the case. Does anyone think they're worth it?

Edit: The original reason I wanted the Inquisitor was to keep my opponent's psychic powers shut down on Turn 1 if I went second (fricking Warp Quake) and later on if things ended up outside of the range of my Librarian (assuming he survived the Drop Pod Assault). Inquisitorial Psychic Hoods have no range limit.

[Wraith]

If Terminators can't fit in Rhinos or Razorbacks, how in the Emperor's name are they supposed to fit in a Chimera?

Simplest answer is, that 40k vehicles aren't to 'correct' scale compared to vehicles. Not unless there's such a thing as a 9' tall by 7' wide Armoured Personal Carrier

In our meta game, for some reason players don't like bringing things with Psychic Hoods so my chances of pulling this off are pretty good.

Strange, yet fair. But what happens after some freak, Vindicare-Assassin-related accident kills your Librarian and the Squad still has tanks to kill?

Or would it be better if I just gave him a full 10 man Strike Squad and made them walk?

Mmm, probably not. If you're in a metagame where heavy armour/tanks aren't all that common, then I would expect most of your opponents to see 3 tanks and a squad of infantry, and then annihilate the infantry. It's the easier option, and particularly tempting if your HQ is visibly nestled in the middle of them.

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

Why not try it and see? Part of the fun of 40k is trying it for yourself, and for all our conjecture while guessing what you might or might not face, you'll have more concrete evidence for yourself

[Borgh]

~Imagine~
several terminators climb into a Chimera. There is quite a bit of shouting, pushing and general fitting involved but, eventually, it all fits. The driver is given the order to move so he floors the throttle. The engine belches a cloud of foul smoke and the machine goes nowhere at all, tracks spinning wildly. The terminators weight pushed it into the ground.

[Borgh]

~Imagine~
several terminators climb into a Chimera. There is quite a bit of shouting, pushing and general fitting involved but, eventually, it all fits. The driver is given the order to move so he floors the throttle. The engine belches a cloud of foul smoke and the machine goes nowhere at all, tracks spinning wildly. The terminators weight pushed it into the ground.

[Zorg]

Terminators could ride in Rhinos and Razorbacks (and Predators) in 1st and 2nd edition, it was removed as a game balance mechanic (or to sell more Land Raiders if you're cynical).
Their fitting in Chimeras is likely a deign oversight brought about by lazy copy pasting.
Also note they could originally fit into Valkyries giving rise to the highly popular 'ten GK termies and a Grandmaster first turn assault bomb', until GW FAQ'd it and removed allies, so it's not without precedent.

[Cheesegear]

it'll be my Space Marines VS Necrons, Dark Eldar, or Space Wolves/Imperial Guard (I know the guy has both armies, not sure which he's playing)

Unfortunately, my Thunderfire cannon will probably have to get turned into them, if that's the case. Does anyone think they're worth it?

...Maybe. It depends on who you're going to play. On one hand, an Inquisitor (if you're only taking him for the 'Hood) is pretty useless against Necrons, Dark Eldar, and most Imperial Guard lists.

While a Thunderfire works wonders against Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard, and 'isn't that good' (but definitely not useless) against Space Wolves and Necrons. Tremor Shells never go out of style. Especially if you've got another two squads of Devastators anyway.

[Craftworld]

...Maybe. It depends on who you're going to play. On one hand, an Inquisitor (if you're only taking him for the 'Hood) is pretty useless against Necrons, Dark Eldar, and most Imperial Guard lists.

While a Thunderfire works wonders against Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard, and 'isn't that good' (but definitely not useless) against Space Wolves and Necrons. Tremor Shells never go out of style. Especially if you've got another two squads of Devastators anyway.

A Psychic Hood will throw Psyker Battle Squads into the Warp because those are one of the most broken things in the game and they are run in a lot of high up (GT IG lists).
@Hootman
I personally recommend the Thunderfire Cannon because of what it can do but if you must take the Psychic Hood take the Henchmen to get it.
Whatever you decide to do Hootman, GOOD LUCK!!!!