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2011-08-25, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-25, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
points didn't go up at all.
a basic sister unit (10 girls with superior) is 124 in the old book. If they have all the grenades they have in the update they go to 154 so point for point the basic squad is cheaper. That is just the simplest example all other units have universally come down in price or stayed the same (the same being mostly vehicles)
Also units like the command squad with 3 relentless multi melta (my preference but there are a few options for heavy weapons) are fantastic and nothing in the old codex can compete.
Celestians can't complete with the likes of Paladins, Sangiunory gaurds or any other elite specialist.
You cant take 4 special weapon Dominion squads in Immolators now, you need more Rhinos.
Still lacking any long range weapons to take on AV13+ (big let down for the Excorsist)
I have run the new list and it works marvelously. Does it have some tweaks and problems I would like to see change? Of course but no codex (particularly a WD one) is perfect but this one is far from bad. Honestly a lot of these comments seem to be derived from someone who had not sat down and actually played with the army as it is now.Check out my horrible homebrews
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2011-08-26, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Sydney
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
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2011-08-26, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
I wish what you said was true, though it probably is. New SoB seem fine to me, maybe not on same level as SW or IG, but it's perfectly serviceable army. Same 'ol, same ol' whining of the internet is getting tiring.
On a side note, it's funny to see people who bashed Ward and praised Cruddace on BS and WS suddenly do a 180 turnCome one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-26, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
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2011-08-26, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-26, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Vermont, USA
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Claspedchurches: This is a mudstone dwarven fortress. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is encrusted with bauxite, studded with ice, decorated with gold, and adorned with hanging rings of magma. This fortress menaces with spikes of steel, iron, bronze, and silver. On the fortress is an image of an image of cheese in pitchblende.
On the fortress is an image of a megaweapon in gold, silver, jet, obsidian and adamantine. The goblins are burning.
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2011-08-26, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
So, Sisters of Battle...Pretty bad. At least I've got pretty pictures of Ogres.
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2011-08-26, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
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2011-08-26, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
WD came out in-store today. People have been building lists and playing 750-1250 point games. They're not doing so well. At least they weren't when I left.
One of the bigger problems is that you can't use Faith in your opponent's turn. Particularly when it comes to Canonesses and Celestians where it would be exceptionally handy to use Faith when being charged by I5 Blood Angels and doesn't help at all against GKs with Halberds.
Another problem is that Battle Sisters are forced to be in squads of ten (at expense), so, while they can take Immolators, they can't castle up like Space Marines in Razorbacks which rolls them.
With the second half out, with points costs and unit options all out in the open; Space Marines do everything better. Everything. Faith barely makes a difference.
I think GW failed with this. Although, it's a White Dwarf Codex and people should've expected this...Which they did.
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2011-08-27, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Eh, their melee unit (Jacobus + DC Assassins/Crusaders) is almost strictly better than almost all melee units SM have. Sure, you can only field 1-2 of them, but Codex has a few other nice units. I wouldn't dismiss the Codex after a few hours of testing, after all, in how many Codices best builds were found after 2 hours? In fact, I do remember a few builds declared 'broken' in such time, which are laughed upon today.
Again, I wouldn't compare it to SW, but it looks better than Tau/Necron codex, at least, and IMHO on par with at least 4-5 more codices. Though, yes, it could have used a few boosts here and there, certainly.Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-27, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Grey Knights can have the same thing, Scoring, in a Land Raider or Stormraven.
I wouldn't dismiss the Codex after a few hours of testing, after all, in how many Codices best builds were found after 2 hours?
Yes, you can have the Death Cult Death Star, but Grey Knights do it much better, and people know this. If that's the sort of unit you want, play a different army that does it better.
Unfortunately, Faith has been shafted, making Sisters a poor attempt at Black Templars.
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2011-08-27, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
GK can't add Chaplain-like character to them who also grants FNP for not much more that Sanguinary Priest costs.
Unfortunately, little in the new 'Codex' has changed since the old one. Same as the Dark Eldar Codex, really. The most 'broken' lists were the lists people were already using from the old Codex. There's not a lot else you can do. Especially since Dominions have been nerfed and Sisters still have no first-turn Tank Kill.
As for 1st turn, don't they usually have 3d6 S8 AP1 shots? I mean, it's better than Krak, and if it works for Long Fangs...
Unfortunately, Faith has been shafted, making Sisters a poor attempt at Black Templars.
Ok, I'm a bit biased, I think new army is a bit more fluffy, but as I said, yes, could have been better.Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-27, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Inquisitor with Rad Grenades. Best unit in the game. Or close to. Number of attacks at high Initiative and Invulnerable basically makes FNP near-useless.
Stormraven/Land Raider. Assault Vehicles. Sisters have none. Vehicles make FNP near-useless.
Coteaz = Scoring Death Cults. Scoring > Non-Scoring. Everytime.
[Dominions] gained stealth + a few more goodies, I hear infiltrating 4 meltaguns in a box is rather good.
4 Meltaguns also requires you to take 10 Sisters (Zorg already posted that they have 2 special weapons per five), which is kind of bad. Since it's expensive.
Or you can Scout an Immolator. But, again, this is the same thing that Sisters have been doing for a while - Immolator Spam - except now it doesn't work so well because you only have 2 meltaguns instead of 4. Chaos Marines can even do this on the cheap.
Any He'Stan list with half a brain can do better than that, but that's beside the point.
As for 1st turn, don't they usually have 3d6 S8 AP1 shots? I mean, it's better than Krak, and if it works for Long Fangs...
Exorcists have 3d6 (that's 3-18, if you're not counting) shots, and must be specified at 3 distinct targets. S8 doesn't do much against Leman Russes or Land Raiders, still. S8, AP1 gets rid of light and medium tanks (4s to Penetrate AV11), and needs 6s to Penetrate Predators which are going to shoot Lascannons back at the Exorcist.
Long Fangs have 15 shots all the time, at six different targets, and can fire Frags if it suits.
Exorcists aren't even close to the same thing.
Well, comparison on B&C shows you have more faith points now
Can't use them in your opponent's turn. Especially the Cannoness' and the Celetians', which would be amazing. Since you can't, they're bad. Yeah, and the fact that you can't use any Faith ability you want. Which gave all Sisters units huge utility in the older edition, but, that's comparing the old to the new. Not analysing the current on it's own merit.
Can't use most Faith abilities in the beginning turns anyway, which means all Faith for the first few turns are wasted.
I think new army is a bit more fluffy, but as I said, yes, could have been better.
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2011-08-27, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Sydney
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
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2011-08-27, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
i didn't think an army needed to be fluffy =/ do the sisters of battle have lots of bunnies?
(yes i know what you meant by 'fluffy'. I just couldn't resist :P)
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2011-08-27, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Planet Donegal
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Got a quick, salient points only battle report, it was a good, fun 1000 point game against Nids. My opponant took Swarmlord. Good grief. That thing is a munster. I honestly hope I never take it on again. I managed to keep out of melee combat with it but what it did was nasty enough.
The lists
Wolfie ( Dark Angels)
Spoiler
Belial (Lightning Claws)
Deathwing
Assault cannon
chainfist
Apothecary
Deathwing banner
1 Hammernator
Deathwing
Assault cannon
Chainfist
Hammernator
Ravenwing
Powersword
2 x Meltaguns
Venerable Dreadnought
Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Nids
Spoiler
Swarmlord
2x Tyrant guard
2x Hive guard
4 x warriors with deathspitters
Genestealers
2 x gaunts (big units)
Gargoyles
Seeing that lot on the board was a cause for concern. I had 13 marines and a Dreadnought. vs big gribblies and lots and lots of little gribbles.
And it started exactly as you'd think.
It was pitched battle, annihilation, so the classic of the genre. I lost the roll for initiative, and my attempt to give the ravenwing a move up the side of the board was thwarted by his infiltrating gnestealers.
The ravenwing then promptly died to massed nid shooting. There's only so many 3+ saves you can make and the hive guard immoblised my Dreadnought. I wasn't too fussed, as it didn't have to move. The Nids were obviously going to have to move.
Belial and his command squad deep striked, fortunately not needing the teleport homers and proceeded to kill a Hive guard with their assault cannon and take a wound off the other with stormbolters. The dreadnought clipped a wound off the other one and finished it off.
After that, it was time for the steadily retreating gunline, clipping as much of them as I could. My opponent grew ever more frustrated at his inability to kill any of Belial's squad (God bless the FAQ writers who made the Apothecary give FNP) The Dreadnought did precisely nothing after this but my steadily diminishing terminators did very well. Right up until they could retreat no more.
My opponent made a mistake and left his gargoyles out of synapse and within easy assault range, so Belial and the boys assaulted and wiped them while my other squad were almost wiped out by the Genestealers. They held though, only to die in the next turn. Belial and his squad were hit by the unit of warriors and manged to kill them. Belial then crashed into a unit of Gaunts. who he also wiped, killing the few remaining with fearless saves.
Swarmlord advanced steadily but I stayed up of his range and, on the last turn, hit his other unit of Gaunts, killing many, but not quite enough.
Result. A lucky, lucky win to the Deathwing, 4 kill points to 2. However, if it had have gone on 1 more turn, Belial and his squad would have been killed by Swarmlord, meaning a draw.
"What's in this empty box ?"
"Youth and talent is no match for age and treachery."
Mechwarrior by Elder Tsofu
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2011-08-27, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Sounds like it was a great fun game. I created a scenario and I wanted to know if you guys thought that it was balenced.
SpoilerExtraction
-Objectives
-Imperium-Get the Hive Section Governor to the extraction point.
-Xenos-Kill the Hive Section Governor
Section Governor Stats
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
2 3 3 3 2 3 1 9 4+ Unit Type: Independent Character
Equipment
Delicate Information
Close-Combat Weapon Special Rules: VIP
Las Pistol
Frag and Krak Grenades
VIP-If the Section Governor is in a unit then all models in that unit gain the Look out! Aargh! rule as described in the Imperial Guard Codex.
Mission Rules
4'x6' table
Played longways (the opposite way of a normal game)
The xenos pick a side and they can deploy up to 12 inches on that side.
The Imperial side can deploy up to 36 inches on the other side.
Place a Section Governor building equidistant from the two deployment zones. In the top corner on the Imperial side a 12"x12" zone is the extraction zone. If the Section Governor is in the zone at the beginning of the Imperial turn then the Imperial side rolls a d6. On a 4+ a Valkyrie shows up, picks him up and ends the mission. Add +1 to the roll for every previous turn that the SG has been in the Extraction zone.
(Section Governor building is AV 13 all around with a door on the side of the Imperials but no fire points. The Governor must start here.)
Thoughts?
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2011-08-27, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Well, I think there are all kinds of tricks that would allow the xenos to blow up the Governator on turn 1, especially seeing he has only 2 wounds and no ++ save. Vindicare alone can win a game against him.
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-27, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
That doesn't seem very balanced. The Xenos have to kill the governor in 1-2 turns (unless you just suck at rolling) otherwise they lose. Plus the govner or starts in the lift off area so he gets a cover sad alongside any squad that he's with.
In other news, The Parasite of Mortrex. A pretty good unit actually. Played against a space marines player yesterday with the parasite. He leaped forward and pounced onto a tactical squad of 10. I killed 3 of them and then spawn 13 ripper swarms (4,6,3). From there we just kept barreling through other marines until a Lysander came smashing down on my parasite and one shotted it. I took a wound off of Lysander but it wasn't enough, and once my turn came around all the ripper swarms pretty much died of instinctive behavior. However it was a very good, flashy target that let my 17 Termagaunts with Devourers go unnoticed. By the time he realized the danger he already had 51 shots firing on him every turn. It became a curb stomp battle from there.
Has anyone else tried the parasite of mortrex with better results? And is the tervigon a good choice, I'm starting to get into this whole "making troops on the battlefield" thing.Last edited by Tychris1; 2011-08-27 at 03:22 PM.
“I’m a Terrorist not an idiot.” - Me
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2011-08-27, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- The Primus Imperium
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Last edited by HalfTangible; 2011-08-27 at 03:45 PM.
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2011-08-27, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Except, most wargear/units that was cut belonged to Ordo Hereticus, and really had no place in that list. Sure, some items should have remained, but overall, Sisters being together with Church, not Inquisition, is a big plus.
Aren't there a rules for blowing up buildings, just like vehicles?Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
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"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-27, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
got some last marines to assemble, undercoat and paint before moving on to start playin' my 1000 Blood Angel point list... and I wanted to see what yall thought of the list.
SpoilerCaptain
- Storm Bolter
- Lightning Claw
Chaplain
- Jump Pack
Death Company
- Thunder Hammer
- Jump Packs
- +2 Marines
Assault Squad
- Meltagun
- Powerfist
- +5 Marines
Scout Squad
- Sniper Rifles
- Missile Launcher
- Camo Cloaks
- +5 Marines
Tactical Squad
- Missile Launcher
- Chainsword
- Flamer
- +5 Marines
(Captain will deploy with tactical squad, Chaplain with DC)
i dunno. I'm new to the game. Only played it once, and there was only one building which neither side even attempted to blow upLast edited by HalfTangible; 2011-08-27 at 04:26 PM.
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2011-08-27, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!
"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2011-08-27, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Have i suggested you take Gabriel Seth's chainsword and shove it into your car engine?
Also, IMHO, there's nothing your list does now the Codex: SM wouldn't have done in the same way, but a bit better, due to Relic Blades and Telion ^^"
Besides, it's just 1000 points. It's not like i'm making the uber list of uberness, im just tryin' to make an army and have some fun with it.
If i were making an uberlist, i'd be using DoA a lot more and have a DC dreadnought with talons instead of a FC.Last edited by HalfTangible; 2011-08-27 at 05:07 PM.
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2011-08-27, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
wat
Here's what's cut;
Blessed Weapon
Book of St Lucius
Brazier of Holy Fire
Cloak of St Aspira
Litanies of Faith
Mantle of Ophelia
Praesidium Protectiva
Purity Seals
Sacred Banner of the Order Militant
Sarissa
Blessed Ammunition
Holy Icon
Holy Promethium
Yeah. Sisters shouldn't have any of those things. Except for all of them. Admittedly, some of those were junk that nobody ever used. But, many of them were incredibly useful. Anyway, none of those things belong to the Inquisition.
You know there are some pretty broken lists for 1000 points. 'Points' doesn't mean something can or can't be broke. In fact, many lists at that level are broken because it's 1000 points.
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2011-08-27, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
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2011-08-27, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
...Ah. I remember you now. You ask questions and don't like answers.
And we told you. Just because you don't like the answer
"Take a Librarian."
Doesn't make it any less valid an opinion. Especially since it's correct.
Here's something Borgh wrote. I shouldn't have to link it since everyone in this thread should have read it already. But I'll link it anyway.
The point was if i wanted to make an awesome, highly useful list, i would go with 2000 points because that's what most games are played at.
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2011-08-27, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Planet Donegal
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Well, if you'll take an attempt at constructive opinion, you have, indeed, succeeded in your stated goal, which is good.
If you want to optimise a touch later then there's some ideas for you, which I shall spoiler so you don't have to read them if you don't want to.
Spoiler
- Lose the camo cloaks off the scouts and take 2 squads, each with their own missile launcher and a second melta gun for the assault marines.
- Put a sanguinary priest in which effectively brings the assault marines up to Death Company levels of close quarters destruction without the disadvantages.
- Replace the flamer from the tac squad with a plasma gun and replace the missile launcher with a plasma cannon (although this is less important than getting rid of the flamer which, if your assault troops are doing their job, will probably never be fired).
- Giving the captain a Jump pack so he can roll with the assault marines because if the enemy are getting into your tac squad enough that the captain is getting some use, it's already gone very wrong
- A Stormraven for the Death Company, losing the jump packs in the process from them and the chaplain
Last edited by Timberwolf; 2011-08-27 at 05:56 PM.
"What's in this empty box ?"
"Youth and talent is no match for age and treachery."
Mechwarrior by Elder Tsofu
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2011-08-27, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
I didn't ask a question when you joined the conversation. You told me that there were broken lists for 1000 points because i said that I wasn't taking my 1000 point list seriously. Why?
And we told you. Just because you don't like the answer
"Take a Librarian."
Doesn't make it any less valid an opinion. Especially since it's correct.
Also: It IS less valid when you're building a fun list, not an optimized one, and just don't wanna take a librarian. We had this discussion back in July, why do i still need to justify my opinion to you?
Well that's not true either. Most games are played anywhere between 1000 and 1750. I'd go so far as to say most games are played at 1500. Judging from what I've seen, anyway.
I'm not continuing this discussion with you any further. Because if i go any further, i'm going to start flaming, and i don't wanna do that.
Thank you for the advice. I'll take it into account should i ever attempt an optimized list.Last edited by HalfTangible; 2011-08-27 at 06:24 PM.