Legend Of Korra: Will It Bend!

[Rockphed]

Hmmm, the new series sounds interesting. Any good way to watch the premier without having a TV that displays nickelodeon? My wife and I don't have cable but we totally like Avatar.

[dehro]

so...what happens when an airbender marries a waterbender, they have a kid and he marries the offspring of a firebender and an earthbender?

do their children gain potential access to all 4 elements?

[John Cribati]

Hmmm, the new series sounds interesting. Any good way to watch the premier without having a TV that displays nickelodeon? My wife and I don't have cable but we totally like Avatar.

Legitimately? Nick.com has a videos portal that currently has both episodes available, possibly with ads or something.

[Brother Oni]

Not sure about the debate but airbender=air nomad is word of god.

You say word of god, but do you have a link to where this is stated?

Taking your statement at face value, all air benders are air nomads and all air nomads are air benders.

Since every air bender we saw of Aang's time are monks, how do they propagate the air nomad race? If we suppose the existence of nuns, and assume that neither of them have vows of celibacy, why did we see no trace of them whatsoever at the temple?
Why has Aang never mentioned them? He makes a number of references to the monks and other novices at the temple, but why no references to any air nomad females?

An alternate interpretation is that all air benders are air nomads, but not all air nomads are air benders, thus they escaped the fire nation purges and have either subsumed themselves into the population of another country and forgotten their past and culture (rather easy with the war and hiding among the refugees), or they're constantly living their nomadic lifestyle and are still on the run from the fire nation.

There's still only one air bender left (Aang), but there are also air nomads left.

so...what happens when an airbender marries a waterbender, they have a kid and he marries the offspring of a firebender and an earthbender?

do their children gain potential access to all 4 elements?

Given that the only known marriage of a pair of benders were Aang and Katara, I'd say it's unknown.

If we knew about Bolin and Mako's parents (and whether they're actually related brothers rather than just grew up together in an orphanage brothers), then we could start drawing more conclusions.

[Flickerdart]

so...what happens when an airbender marries a waterbender, they have a kid and he marries the offspring of a firebender and an earthbender?

do their children gain potential access to all 4 elements?

Yes, but not all at once.

[Kd7sov]

Since every air bender we saw of Aang's time are monks, how do they propagate the air nomad race? If we suppose the existence of nuns, and assume that neither of them have vows of celibacy, why did we see no trace of them whatsoever at the temple?
Why has Aang never mentioned them? He makes a number of references to the monks and other novices at the temple, but why no references to any air nomad females?

Error. The nuns definitely exist; see the Season 2 episode "Appa's Lost Days".

Zuko suggests that airbender children were raised communally (something about "I guess you wouldn't know fathers, being raised by monks"), though I question the accuracy and completeness of his knowledge of his people's effectively-extinct enemies.

I note, incidentally, that people seem to assume that the monks took vows of celibacy, but I am unaware of any canonical reason to believe that to be the case.

To put it simply, we don't know much about prewar Air Nomad culture. The people we see at the temples in flashbacks appear to be children and old people; maybe the younger adults wandered, or maybe they stayed in separate areas of the temples, or... There are a great many possibilities.

[lord_khaine]

Err... no, it isn't. If it was genetic, the Avatar wouldn't exist, or alternatively everyone would eventually be as multi-bending as Avatars since Avatars do pass on their genes. There is something in-built into the world that restricts how much you can bend, and the Avatar is a spiritual being above that rules that infuses a body with the ability to be multi-bender regardless of the original abilities. I.e. this world doesn't run on genetic science, it runs on spiritual science. There are rules (at least, I hope there are), but they are not based on Mendelian rules.

Grey Wolf

Ahh, yes it is, the Avatar certainly has enough unique traits to show that he is an exception to the rules.

Since every air bender we saw of Aang's time are monks, how do they propagate the air nomad race? If we suppose the existence of nuns, and assume that neither of them have vows of celibacy, why did we see no trace of them whatsoever at the temple?
Why has Aang never mentioned them? He makes a number of references to the monks and other novices at the temple, but why no references to any air nomad females?

There were female air nomads, as i recall we saw them in a flashback regarding the southern air temple, where they lived.

You say word of god, but do you have a link to where this is stated?

Taking your statement at face value, all air benders are air nomads and all air nomads are air benders.

This is also what i heard, as i remember it bending had both a genetic and a spiritual component, and the air nomads who were the most spiritual of the 4 nations therefore had a bender rate of 100%.

Originally Posted by dehro View Post
so...what happens when an airbender marries a waterbender, they have a kid and he marries the offspring of a firebender and an earthbender?

do their children gain potential access to all 4 elements?

From what we can see of Tenzin and his children, then i would say that it looks like you can only carry the trait for elemental type.

[dehro]

Since every air bender we saw of Aang's time are monks, how do they propagate the air nomad race? If we suppose the existence of nuns, and assume that neither of them have vows of celibacy, why did we see no trace of them whatsoever at the temple?

again, I believe the celibacy vow isn't a must, in air nomad culture.. I do believe Tenzin qualifies as monk.. and obviously has a family.
I say he looks like a monk because of his tattoos.. something which his children don't seem to sport...meaning, I suppose, they're too young or simply haven't become monks... (yet?)
as for Mako and his brother..the avatar wikia does say they are indeed blood brothers, of mixed parentage. it is stated as a fact.
I can only assume that the wikia is compiled with all the most recent info available (not to mention as many qualified sources as possible)
besides.. plenty of people in republic city don't really dress according to one or the other nation's style..and I'm willing to bet that in the last 70 years plenty of mixed marriages have occurred there. the waterbenders Korra encounters in the city don't particularily look like tribesmen,..I'm thinking of the thug she beats in the first episode, to name one..

[Brother Oni]

I note, incidentally, that people seem to assume that the monks took vows of celibacy, but I am unaware of any canonical reason to believe that to be the case.

It's not an unreasonable assumption, given that most, if not all, monastic orders in the real world require a vow of celibacy or at least promote abstinence.

This is also what i heard, as i remember it bending had both a genetic and a spiritual component, and the air nomads who were the most spiritual of the 4 nations therefore had a bender rate of 100%.

This is a very interesting statement though, as it proposes both Lamackian and Mendelian traits for bender inheritance.

It also makes either Sozin or Azulon a complete monster given they they ordered the genocide of the entire air nomad race. If they highlighted this fact to Aang, I suspect that he would have had a great deal less reluctance to deal with Ozai.

[Dusk Eclipse]

According to the wiki an air nomad gained their tattoos when they reached air bending mastery (incidentally Aang was the youngest Airbending master ever)

Source

[BRC]

I always imagined that Air Nomad society consisted of both spiritual Monks, all of whom were Airbenders, and the actual Air Nomads, who wandered around being, well, Nomadic, with the Monks providing leadership, guidance, shelter and, when necessary, protection.

Now you may point out that pacifist monks wouldn't make very good soldiers, but they probably wouldn't need to be. The Air Nomads live up in the mountains, they're not aggressive (See above, Pacifists), attacking them would be a nightmare for any non-flying army (see above, Mountains), and they have no real natural resources of any value (See above: Nomads living in mountains). The only real threat might be the occasional desperate bandits, which the Monks could probably contain, and internal disputes between Nomadic groups, which the Monks could mediate.

You know, until Sozen showed up with an army of comet-powered Firebenders and the intention of exterminating the Air Nomads and killing the Avatar.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Hmmm, the new series sounds interesting. Any good way to watch the premier without having a TV that displays nickelodeon? My wife and I don't have cable but we totally like Avatar.

Nick.com currently has it online.

I have no idea if they will keep doing that for each episode, but if they do then that should be a legal avenue.

(Also hoisting the jolly roger is always an option)

I always imagined that Air Nomad society consisted of both spiritual Monks, all of whom were Airbenders, and the actual Air Nomads, who wandered around being, well, Nomadic, with the Monks providing leadership, guidance, shelter and, when necessary, protection.

Officially that is wrong, or so I've always heard. All Airbenders it seems. And is attested to by a number of places.

[LordVader]

Hmmm, the new series sounds interesting. Any good way to watch the premier without having a TV that displays nickelodeon? My wife and I don't have cable but we totally like Avatar.

You can download the first two episodes from Itunes, in HD, for free.

You should do so, as the quality of the download is fantastic.

[Yuki Akuma]

"Avatar Extras" for the episode "The Northern Air Temple", numbers 10 and 11, state explicitly that all Air Nomads are airbenders.

Here's a list.

Of course, feel free to declare it non-canon because it's on a wiki.

[dehro]

side question. if dragons are the original firebenders, flying bisons the original airbenders, badgermoles the original earthbenders and, I reckon, turtle-lions the original energybenders... who were the original waterbenders?
koi fish? sea snakes? the unagi?

[Kobold-Bard]

side question. if dragons are the original firebenders, flying bisons the original airbenders, badgermoles the original earthbenders and, I reckon, turtle-lions the original energybenders... who were the original waterbenders?
koi fish? sea snakes? the unagi?

It was the moon. The first Waterbenders mimicked how it pushed & pulled the tides.

Yue said so in Book 1 of TLA.

[dehro]

It was the moon. The first Waterbenders mimicked how it pushed & pulled the tides.

Yue said so in Book 1 of TLA.

yup...but she didn't say whether those first waterbenders were human, did she

[AtlanteanTroll]

yup...but she didn't say whether those first waterbenders were human, did she

No, the first waterbender was the moon.

[MLai]

I'm sick of how everything has to be related to genetics, for some ppl. It's a *fantasy world*, accept that some things with spiritual connotations (kung fu) are more related to spiritual and cultural factors than f'ing genetics!

This coming from a biology major who is anti-ID, btw.

1. Fingerprints, etc, are not genetic. Look it up. The fact that identical twins have different ones indicates it's not genetic, not the other way around. Saying it's the other way around is like saying if only 1 twin has a scar, then they must not be identical twins.

2. Hence, if id twins have different bending potential, then it's akin to fingerprints -- NOT genetic.

3. If it's all genetic, then why do ppl all over say "We learned our bending from X animal, X natural phenomenon"? Because they learned it. I will even accept that it's Lamarckian, since that is an aspect of fantasy for all intents and purposes.

[Devonix]

No, the first waterbender was the moon.

Yes the first benders were spirits, or animals. Human's simply learned how to mimic them.

One thing I am hoping from this series is getting back to that idea, Like how Aang said that the inventors living at the southern air temple had the Spirit of Airbenders.

[Dr.Epic]

What I don't get is how the moon is supposed to be the original waterbender, but all the all benders learned their bending from animals that they can ride as cool mounts. I guess you could ride the moon as a mount, but you'd need satellite bending to get to it.

[Zevox]

Since every air bender we saw of Aang's time are monks, how do they propagate the air nomad race? If we suppose the existence of nuns, and assume that neither of them have vows of celibacy, why did we see no trace of them whatsoever at the temple?
Why has Aang never mentioned them? He makes a number of references to the monks and other novices at the temple, but why no references to any air nomad females?

In addition to what others mentioned, remember that one of the past Avatars Aang contacted in the finale, Avatar Yangchen, was a female Air Nomad, and dressed identically to the monks, plus had the same tattoos.

Zevox

[Randomguy]

What I don't get is how the moon is supposed to be the original waterbender, but all the all benders learned their bending from animals that they can ride as cool mounts. I guess you could ride the moon as a mount, but you'd need satellite bending to get to it.

Funnily enough, because of this there was fanart depicting Korra riding the moon. Then people remembered the moon was Princess Yue, so now people are shipping Korra and Yue for this reason. I think there's fanart for that now, too.

[MLai]

If Korra was a guy, Yue would totally fall for h-- him.

What I want to know is, how did a people without science even know that it was the moon influencing the tides?

I guess they found out through the shaman hotline.

[unosarta]

In addition to what others mentioned, remember that one of the past Avatars Aang contacted in the finale, Avatar Yangchen, was a female Air Nomad, and dressed identically to the monks, plus had the same tattoos.

Zevox

But that might have had more to do with the fact that she was an Avatar than that the monks allowed women into their ranks. If she was the avatar born into Air Nomad culture, they probably would have been forced to adopt her in order to train her with their master. I think that would have been an interesting life to follow, given the amount of sexism she probably faced from everyone.

[MLai]

Isn't it canon that the E-W temples are all nuns, and the N-S temples are all monks???

[Brother Oni]

I'm sick of how everything has to be related to genetics, for some ppl. It's a *fantasy world*, accept that some things with spiritual connotations (kung fu) are more related to spiritual and cultural factors than f'ing genetics!

This coming from a biology major who is anti-ID, btw.

ID concerns aside, it's mostly due to suspension of disbelief.

Spoilered for length:

Spoiler

Show

For people to accept fiction, they need to suspend their disbelief to accept the concept of the story and setting. This level of suspension varies from person to person and in my case at least, the tone of the story.

For example, I'm willing to accept action movie silliness in something like Commando or Rambo, not so much in Saving Private Ryan.
Similarly, I can accept wirefu martial arts inside a wuxia film, but not inside the various Bourne films.

Avatar's main suspension of disbelief is that people have the innate ability to manipulate 'elements' (or rather the classical definition of elements which is just arbitarily assigned types of matter) and have built the apex of these manipulators as a semi-godlike being that renews itself upon death, following various eastern philosophies on reincarnation.
To contain these manipulators, an entire world has been built, thus providing a feasible backdrop for the story.

Now the potential to bend in individuals seem to follow a pattern.
Whether by accident or by design, this pattern seems to follow Mendelian inheritance - this follows a logical pattern for which we have evidence to prove, reinforcing our suspension of disbelief.

This is internally consistent with the world setting (benders tend to parent other benders), thus making the world more believable.

On the flip side, if we had people spontaneously becoming benders for a story arc, then somehow forgetting they could bend in the next arc and is never referenced again by the characters, this is not internally consistent and implies poor writing/continuity.
This would detract from the story and strain our suspension of disbelief.

The fact that identical twins have different ones indicates it's not genetic, not the other way around.

We have insufficient information on the nature of their 'twinning'. They could be monozygotic twins (identical), or fraternal ones.

3. If it's all genetic, then why do ppl all over say "We learned our bending from X animal, X natural phenomenon"? Because they learned it. I will even accept that it's Lamarckian, since that is an aspect of fantasy for all intents and purposes.

My theory is that the potential to bend has a genetic component (both Mendelian and Lamarckian), but whether they actually do bend is environmental (having a good teacher or learning it from a critter/the moon) and what element they bend, is cultural/psychological.

As always, it's just a theory and subject to changes from new information.

In addition to what others mentioned, remember that one of the past Avatars Aang contacted in the finale, Avatar Yangchen, was a female Air Nomad, and dressed identically to the monks, plus had the same tattoos.

I've got no objection to being proved incorrect - I'm always happy to get reliable info to update my theories.

I do object to people making blanket statements though, especially when there's not really sufficient information to make that conclusion.

[Kd7sov]

What I want to know is, how did a people without science even know that it was the moon influencing the tides?

I guess they found out through the shaman hotline.

Is "without science" even a valid thing? Science is about recognizing patterns and making predictions based on them. Patterns such as, for instance, the tides increasing or decreasing as the moon's position changes. (Spring and neap tides, for instance, are pretty clear in this regard if you're keeping track of the moon.)

But that might have had more to do with the fact that she was an Avatar than that the monks allowed women into their ranks. If she was the avatar born into Air Nomad culture, they probably would have been forced to adopt her in order to train her with their master. I think that would have been an interesting life to follow, given the amount of sexism she probably faced from everyone.

... ... ... ... ... Can you back this up at all?

The only people observed to be particularly sexist, as a group, are the Northern Water Tribe. In light of the established fact that the Air Nomads included nuns (at the Eastern and Western temples), I don't see any reason Yangchen would have trouble.

[Brother Oni]

Is "without science" even a valid thing? Science is about recognizing patterns and making predictions based on them. Patterns such as, for instance, the tides increasing or decreasing as the moon's position changes. (Spring and neap tides, for instance, are pretty clear in this regard if you're keeping track of the moon.)

Although it's not mentioned, if the world of Avatar followed Chinese traditions they would have a lunar calendar and observations of the moon would have been followed for a while (China's had it since the Shang Dynasty, which was 1600-1046 BC).

Due to Fire nation imperialism, they might have established a solar calendar instead, while all the other nations stuck to the traditional lunar one.

[hamlet]

Although it's not mentioned, if the world of Avatar followed Chinese traditions they would have a lunar calendar and observations of the moon would have been followed for a while (China's had it since the Shang Dynasty, which was 1600-1046 BC).

Due to Fire nation imperialism, they might have established a solar calendar instead, while all the other nations stuck to the traditional lunar one.

Or, you know, you could just not assume that "pre-modern scientific methodology" is equivalent to "ignorant, stupid, and incapable of analytical and empiracle thought."

People in our world have been quite adept at tracking cosmological phenomena for tens of thousands of years and most certainly would have been able to make detailed and predictive models of lunar cycles.

Connecting it to tides, however, is probably difficult since it took us until the late 17th century to really get that one down.