Explosive Runes Questions

[Phelix-Mu]

That would be vastly better. When triggered, the runes make a single 15' gaze attack for listed force damage. (Or similar.)

Would your version still destroy/damage the material written on? That seems to be an important part of the spell as written (not so much important when it gets warped into a nuke).

[bobthe6th]

Level 3 spell so it'd have to be a CL 3 at the least, and Scholar's Touch is the only spell that I know will activate them all at the same moment. Chilling the BookNade might work. Also for if you want the Cheese just start leaving the ER's on 1 ft blocks of Air, less than 10 pounds using a little known combo Prestidigitation and ER.

Dispel magic is the only(non suicidal) way to blow through a wad of ER. and it would be a min CL 5... though there was a way somewhere to work it.

oh yeah, no it is on a gliph of warding lesser(gotten from a geometer dip) while you are holding CL-1 opposed alinement arrows. You fill the gliph with a dispel magic(at your current CL of 1), and when the seal is broken it fires off.

It costs you a charge of a level 3 spell wand, but it is so worth it. Have it on a closed letter, and use an unseen servant as the delivery system.

[Chilingsworth]

For what it's worth, Amenuensis looks like a valid target for Chain Spell. Just stick a single rune in on each piece of parchment (which is perfectly legal and in fact the intended use). Then detonate up to 20/23 of them with a single spell instantly.

Hmm, that could work, although in my specific case, we get cantrips at will, so making up a bunch of single rune bombs and using amanuensis normally would still be useful.

Actually, if I use this tactic at all, I intend to use it as a filter of sorts: If my victims manage to sucessfully counter it, then I know they pose a sufficent threat for me to consider using my actual spells.

In other words, if they don't counter it: they're screwed. If they do? I stop toying with them. They're probably even more screwed.

[Guizonde]

But... my character is of NE (heading for LE) alignment.

And, he's more likely to found libraries (and universities, and museums, and research labs) than work in a library.

Yeah, he's Evil mostly because of his absolute hatred of the church of Tyr, and because he's willing to fuel propserity and military might by means of devotion to an evil power and power it via undead.

i was thinking about an NPC or even a very atypical BBEG at first, but if you can roleplay a surly loyal evil librarian, it would be even better!

also, something about seeing written "offensive text" made me think:

PC:"i reveal the newsletter of [insert hate-group]"
DM:"aaaand the monster takes d8 dmg"

it could also be interpreted as swatting someone with a newspaper

['Able' Xanthis]

Hmm, that could work, although in my specific case, we get cantrips at will, so making up a bunch of single rune bombs and using amanuensis normally would still be useful.

Actually, if I use this tactic at all, I intend to use it as a filter of sorts: If my victims manage to sucessfully counter it, then I know they pose a sufficent threat for me to consider using my actual spells.

In other words, if they don't counter it: they're screwed. If they do? I stop toying with them. They're probably even more screwed.

This is what a properly motivated caster is like, people. Concussive explosions able to rip the front end of a hummer in twain and Chilling is using them to filter out those who don't make the cut. Those unworthy of his true magistic might. I have to say this, chilling.

Happy Hunting.

[Chilingsworth]

This is what a properly motivated caster is like, people. Concussive explosions able to rip the front end of a hummer in twain and Chilling is using them to filter out those who don't make the cut. Those unworthy of his true magistic might. I have to say this, chilling.

Happy Hunting.

Ok, I expect I'll be asked about that bout of manicical laughter tomorrow morning. Mind if I sig this?

[TuggyNE]

Would your version still destroy/damage the material written on? That seems to be an important part of the spell as written (not so much important when it gets warped into a nuke).

Yeah, it might need special wording to be sure of it, but that would definitely still be a thing.

['Able' Xanthis]

Ok, I expect I'll be asked about that bout of manicical laughter tomorrow morning. Mind if I sig this?

Go ahead, Chilling.

[Chilingsworth]

Go ahead, Chilling.

Thanks. Sadly, had to crop it, though (and remove a significant part of my old sig) to fit it. Still worth it.

['Able' Xanthis]

Thanks. Sadly, had to crop it, though (and remove a significant part of my old sig) to fit it. Still worth it.

Wow, you even removed part of your old sig... wow, just wow.

[Chilingsworth]

Wow, you even removed part of your old sig... wow, just wow.

Well, to be fair, your comment did as good of a job (if not better) of showing my personality as the personality tests it replaced did, anyway.

Besides, thats only the second time something in this forum has made me laugh hard enough to cramp up.

['Able' Xanthis]

Well, to be fair, your comment did as good of a job (if not better) of showing my personality as the personality tests it replaced did, anyway.

I gotta say that was one of my better complements, it just came to me whole you know.

[Chilingsworth]

I gotta say that was one of my better complements, it just came to me whole you know.

Again, thanks. I suspect I'll get at least a chuckle a day from that for quite awhile.

Anyway, kinda back on topic (but expanding it):

What sort of other (non cheesy) uses can we come up with for explosive runes (either in regular or metamagic flavors)?

Ones mentioned so far:

Let's call the basic (pobably intended) use "Intellectual Property Protection."

So, that, plus:

-- As a filter to determine when foes need serrious attention,
-- As a deterient to reading wanted posters (and a way to make a government look either incompetent or out to get its people by having its public notices blow up when read.)
-- As an alarm system/first defensive line.
-- As small(ish) remote bombs (see 'filter' above.)

I've got another two:

Assassination Weapon: Added to a letter that is then sealed and mailed to a target. once this is used a few times, the security on the mail system will either increase enough that it will be no longer practical, or said system may break down. (That leads to the second application, below) In any case, it would be at this point that one switches to using ignorant street urchins as delivery personel. (i.e. give the kid a silver or gold to give a letter to the soon to be Mr. Body. with instructions not to open it.)

Chaos, Mayhem, Economic Impairment: If we flood the cities and the mail with these things (the cities in the form of fake/"enhanced" wanted posters/other government bullitins, the mail in the form of letters) People will lose faith in the mail system and/or be unwilling to check up on the latest information their government is trying to get out to them.

Most of the applications directed against civilians become even more effective when paired with fell animate (or, if your Dm goes by the rule that death by negative level results in a wight, fell drain) to cause minor zombie/wight outbreaks. Unlikely to work against more substantive targets, though fell drain would still have some effect. Actually, even (maybe especially) against civilians, fell drain would be unlikely to create any wights: the normal damage alone would probably be the agent of death.

[Crasical]

Explosive Rune'd paper airplanes and the Launch cantrip are a must for the sociopathic prankster in any party.

[Deophaun]

HThis would be a way to get around the "amanuensis reads one rune at a time, triggers the first one, and destroys the rest of them without setting them off" problem

That, though, is DM fiat, not RAW (RAW says that the traps are triggered, not that they are triggered when copied), which means it can be applied just as easily to an area dispel (the first explosive rune goes off and destroys all the rest before they can be dispelled).

[Chilingsworth]

That, though, is DM fiat, not RAW (RAW says that the traps are triggered, not that they are triggered when copied), which means it can be applied just as easily to an area dispel (the first explosive rune goes off and destroys all the rest before they can be dispelled).

Not if each of the runes is on a seperate object, each of which would be subject to a simultaneous dispel attempt. (Yes, if you put all the runes in the same object (a book) an area dispel could be similiarly ineffective.)

Also, I was simply suggesting a reason someone would want to use an area dispel magic rather than amanuensis.

And if it's DM fiat, it's at least reasonable dm fiat. I'd rather live within that rule than provoke a complete banning of the concept.

Incidentally, the issue hasn't come up, yet. The ruling is my best guess at what my dm's final ruling will be. (and probably the best case senario.)

[Story]

The mail thing wont work against stronger targets since they'll probably just detect magic everything anyway.

[Chilingsworth]

The mail thing wont work against stronger targets since they'll probably just detect magic everything anyway.

True, though my dm doesn't let detect magic detect magical traps (I don't think he'd be so against this idea that he'd change the houserule. I think he'd actually be appreciative of clever terrorist tactics in this campaign (and I wouldn't use it in any disimiliar campaign.)) If he did change the houserule, though, at least that would allow us PC's to use the spell for the same purpose. Even if he changed the houserule to allow NPC's to break it for this purpose, the mere fact that they now consider it nessicary to scan all the mail is a victory, and at the cost of a few sp (for paper and postage) and some spells I cast on my day off, an inexpensive one.

Remember: I'm not a mere munchkin- I'm roleplaying a highly intelligent terrorist revolutionary. Even if I fail to make things go boom, forcing the foe to make permenant (likely harmful) changes to stop me from doing so is worth the cost of the attempt.

[Deophaun]

Not if each of the runes is on a seperate object, each of which would be subject to a simultaneous dispel attempt.

You are going to have to point out where the word "simultaneous" appears in the dispel magic entry.

[Chilingsworth]

You are going to have to point out where the word "simultaneous" appears in the dispel magic entry.

Maybe, but the possibility of such blocking is also a primary reason why I intend only to use one rune at a time. (The others being that I don't want to completely ruin the game, and limiting myself is a better option than almost guaranteeing a visit from the banhammer.) Regardless the question of wheather I can or cannot use them en masse to create titanic is explosions moot.

[Karoht]

Trickery Devotion-3.5 Feat

So I get someone else to make a boatload of Exploding Runes for me.
I use Trickery Devotion. It's basically Project Image but with longer duration and a few more uses.
"Once you reach 10th level, you can spend a swift action to transfer your perceptions to the simulacrum and perceive the world from its point of view rather than your own. You can move the image as if it were your own body, using the simulacrum's movement characteristics (ignoring terrain, “flying, “ and the like). You can also perform any skill and ability checks using the simulacrum, as long as they do not require a Strength score higher than 2. The image has phantom versions of all your equipment (such as lockpicks), but any such items that lose direct contact with it immediately dissipate."
The Devotion takes out it's phantom copy of ER parchments. It runs into a pack of badguys. I transfer my consciousness to it. And begin reading.
BOOM.

I turn off Trickery Devotion.
I turn it on again next round. Run it into a pack of baddies. And begin reading.

Somehow I doubt this works (and I'm not the kind of player to use it even if it did), but it does create an interesting detonation method.
If one party member makes a sack full of ER's, and in battle throws or Levitates or Telekinetically throws the sack to a spot, I can create the Trickery Devotion (or just use Project Image, but that will require line of sight/effect) and go read the runes. At worst, I destroy my illusion in the process. Ohz Noez!

[Fouredged Sword]

You just need an item that cast erase (CL 1) when thrown and to make it out if rivientine (so it is immune to damage). Make it also a weapon and enchant it with the returning property and stuff it with more runes before you throw it again.

[elonin]

Wouldn't you have to be an illiterate rouge to find the runes without setting them off? Reading is a fairly automatic process. Also how are those with trap finding supposed to disarm glyphs since you'd have to enter its area of effect, thus setting it off.

[Chilingsworth]

Wouldn't you have to be an illiterate rouge to find the runes without setting them off? Reading is a fairly automatic process. Also how are those with trap finding supposed to disarm glyphs since you'd have to enter its area of effect, thus setting it off.

Uh... by the power of RAW stupidity?

(The relevant spells say rogues can detect and disarm them, so I guess they can, somehow.)

[ScionoftheVoid]

Note that Explosive Runes deals damage to the object it's written on and to any creatures in the area. Blowing up other Runes before they can go off is only a risk if they're on the same item, and then most methods of setting them off (except actually reading) can be assumed to do them all at once (or at least close enough that there's not time to destroy the next set of Runes before it goes off itself).

EDIT: Just re-read it, it's a bit more ambiguous than I remember it, but it still only mentions damaging creatures and the object it's written upon. If it does damage other objects then you can use them to blast through walls, doors and anything else that dares impede you.

[Story]

Wouldn't you have to be an illiterate rouge to find the runes without setting them off? Reading is a fairly automatic process. Also how are those with trap finding supposed to disarm glyphs since you'd have to enter its area of effect, thus setting it off.

Perhaps they have a subconscious magical sense? Doing things that shouldn't be possible is fairly commonplace in D&D, and it's silly to quibble with one of the weaker abilities.

['Able' Xanthis]

I could see the training for it right now...

"No, young fool you look past the words not at them. What if that was a set of four hundred Explosive Runes, a viable tactic for any Wizard paranoid enough to have foes willing to hire a rouge." Raven Wintersimth, Master Rouge of the Thieves Guild

[Garan]

By the way, as a DM I rule that any of these types of "trap" spells only last for a certain period of time/CL. Any permanent things would have to use the Permanency spell. It kind of lowers the complete ridiculousness that this thread has been suggesting.

[Chilingsworth]

I could see the training for it right now...

"No, young fool you look past the words not at them. What if that was a set of four hundred Explosive Runes, a viable tactic for any Wizard paranoid enough to have foes willing to hire a rouge." Raven Wintersimth, Master Rouge of the Thieves Guild

More comedic gold, bud!

(no room in my sig, though. )

By the way, as a DM I rule that any of these types of "trap" spells only last for a certain period of time/CL. Any permanent things would have to use the Permanency spell. It kind of lowers the complete ridiculousness that this thread has been suggesting.

Fair enough, but isn't making things like explosive runes cost XP going too far in the other direction?

Especially with my dm, who does xp in a way that lost xp can never be caught up. Also, he's already given wizards (and to a lesser extent, other T1 casters) some significant nerfs: No gate (or other calling spells), no shapechange (or polymorph or polymorph any object) xp rules that make using spells with xp components worth it only as absolute last resorts, if even that (and makes crafting something of an iffy proposition for anyone without a craft reserve)

I agree that letting more than one rune go off at once is insane, though.

['Able' Xanthis]

Yeah, Gate and other calling spells are illegal in my games because several eons ago a wizard fudged himself and several countries by calling a Genie who was free from obligations like that. The Genie then took over an entire hemisphere of that planet before another mage managed to lock the gates for a hundred years and give the people enough time to cast an Epic Spell that disallows a laundry list of spells and powers which include limiting the Wish spell (Not really but it was a good reason a spell like Wish would have Limits in the first place)