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2012-05-21, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
On a "local" level it might work, because there are usually a few ressource/factory/agri worlds in each sector, and in-sector travel is usually done outside of the warp.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2012-05-21, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
While all of the above is true, it's also been suggested in some of the codices that the Emperor being tethered to his barely-alive body is the only thing preventing him from being reborn and/or going and beating the tar out of the Chaos gods. So, while his death would certainly mean anarchy in the short term, it may actually be beneficial for the Imperium in the long run.
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.
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2012-05-21, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-22, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Well, they are still not strong enough to prevent Draco (that GK guy) from soloing the last Chaos primarch that crossed his path.
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-05-22, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Last edited by Tome; 2012-05-22 at 07:31 AM.
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2012-05-22, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Originally Posted by Cheesegear
If I'm not mistaken, it's canon fact that the Imperium of Man is by far the largest faction in the setting, which is why they can fight all the other factions simultaneously without getting steamrolled. Thus, the Emperor is very likely stronger than any one of the Chaos gods and may be stronger than all four of them together."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.
"Time to throw the dice." - Mat Cauthon, Wheel of Time
"Nothing good can ever come from staying with normal people."
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2012-05-22, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-22, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
These feral and primitive worlds, why doesn't the imperium bring their tech up to date? Surely in the grimdark future of the 41st millenium, there is a super fertilizer made from dead tyranids and orks? Also, couldn't theplanets just evacuate the planet and go somewhere else until whatever is invading is done with it?
Bacause in the grimdark future of the 41st millenium, nobody knows how to grow potatoes anymore?
So if/when the emperor stops being alive? He could wipe out the chaos gods in afist fight?
I don't think the primarchs actually do anything anymore, they are in the immaterium and are too powerful to be summoned, but too weak to make a difference if the chaos gods fight each other?
I thought the tyranids were a larger faction because the planets they eat make more tyranids to eat more planets?
I think organisation can be said for all factions in 40K , heres is why for more "lawful" factions:
Eldar: They are live in small colonies spread out and would never fight out of worry that they would be wiped out.
Tau: Everytime a leader dies every tau fighting has a 50/50 chance of running, or take on the enemy in a fist fight.
Humanity: In the Grimdark future of the 41st millenium, the fate of humanity rests on the shoulders of men with bad eyesight doing paperwork, EG: They only realized a planet was rebelling when they discovered that a planets taxes were 8,000 years overdue.My extended signature.
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2012-05-22, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
No.
(1) Technology is feared and largely based on superstition in WH40K. Innovation is minimal and likely to get you declared a heretic. The dissemination of technology is tightly controlled by Mars which is one reason why Feral Worlds aren't uplifted willy-nilly.
(2) Interstellar travel is chancy and reliant on the Emperor's continued (relative) good health. If he dies all the way, the Beacon goes out and Warp travel becomes much more hazardous. Evacuating a besieged planet, resources aside, is unlikely to go well if the Emperor is dead.
(3) Many Hive Worlds are actually Death Worlds with arcologies. Growing anything outside the Hives will be difficult, dangerous or both. The sort of agriculture that is possible (e.g. fungus harvesting) is not nearly productive enough to feed the sheer number of people that live in a single Hive, let alone all the Hives on an entire planet.Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
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Elflad
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2012-05-22, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Originally Posted by Hazzardevil
Originally Posted by Brother OniOriginally Posted by Hazzardevil"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.
"Time to throw the dice." - Mat Cauthon, Wheel of Time
"Nothing good can ever come from staying with normal people."
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2012-05-22, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
If I'm not mistaken, it's canon fact that the Imperium of Man is by far the largest faction in the setting, which is why they can fight all the other factions simultaneously without getting steamrolled. Thus, the Emperor is very likely stronger than any one of the Chaos gods and may be stronger than all four of them together.
The chaos gods on the other hand draw power from basic parts of emotion, making their domain the entire galaxy.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-05-22, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Which is a ridiculously huge portion of humanity, actually. There are entire planets devoted to nothing but shrines and cathedrals, and families who spend generations saving up to afford a trip to Terra for one of their descendants, who can then spend a generation or more waiting so that one of their descendants can see the Imperial Palace. People like Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM) who lip-service their worship are supposed to be quite unusual, and even Chaos Cults aren't nearly as common as some of the fiction would make them out to be.
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2012-05-22, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
These feral and primitive worlds, why doesn't the imperium bring their tech up to date? Surely in the grimdark future of the 41st millenium, there is a super fertilizer made from dead tyranids and orks? Also, couldn't theplanets just evacuate the planet and go somewhere else until whatever is invading is done with it?Last edited by GolemsVoice; 2012-05-22 at 06:38 PM.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-05-22, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
As Oracle Hunter pointed out, it's not a matter of growing potatoes, it's growing enough potatoes.
Hive Primus on Necromunda for example, houses several billion people and although it's the largest hive on the planet, it's one of several thousand hives on the planet.
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2012-05-22, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
This holds even on the outer edges of the Imperium - in Dawn of War 2 the given population for Meridian is 32 billion (just because its a convenient example which we have numbers for.) And not only that, but it is 90% of the Imperial population of the subsector. Even if the planet wasn't a mix of dead and urban land, there's no way to support that much population on one planet. No way to import food, the people are going to be starving, rioting, looting and related activities in short order, especially because those activities are happening some in normal times in the lower hives due to the screwed up bureaucracy and an apathetic aristocracy.
As for the rest of the subsector, when communication and transport across the system dies the other 3-3.5 billion imperials scattered across the rest of the planet are probably going to find themselves in trouble in short order. Meridian also accounted for over 90% of the production in the subsector, so there's going to be minimal industry on the outer planets, and they'll also have no access to Imperial reinforcements or replacement parts. Add in the fact that there's orks, tyranids and heretics running around the subsector as is (and, honestly, there's probably orks and heretics running around most subsectors, just replace 'tyranids' with 'dark eldar', 'necron', or whatever you want) and all of them will still be on the same level of warp travel they were before, isolated colonies and outposts will just get demolished.Last edited by Ailurus; 2012-05-22 at 06:07 PM.
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2012-05-22, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
By the way, would the lack of the Astronomican hinder astrotelepathy in any way?
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-05-22, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The exact effect of how the nature of belief works is... iffy. Gork and Mork have an enormous following, but they don't appear to do anything, for example.
Also, irregardless of drawing power off basic emotions, it is worth pointing out that the entirety of humanity putting their fingers in their ears and yelling, "CHAOS DOESN'T EXIST! LA LA LA! NO SUCH THING AS DEMONS OR GODS" was enough to put the chaos gods into panic mode. So humanity's belief does have an awful lot of power.
Ultimately, though, sources are conflicting and vague enough that we really can't be sure what the long term effects of the emperor's death would be. At one point, the fall of the imperium would have brought about the rise of a 5th Chaos god, for instance (similar to the Eldar bring about Slaanesh).Steam ID: The Great Squark
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2012-05-22, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-22, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-23, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Which is a ridiculously huge portion of humanity, actually. There are entire planets devoted to nothing but shrines and cathedrals, and families who spend generations saving up to afford a trip to Terra for one of their descendants, who can then spend a generation or more waiting so that one of their descendants can see the Imperial Palace. People like Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM) who lip-service their worship are supposed to be quite unusual, and even Chaos Cults aren't nearly as common as some of the fiction would make them out to be.
Yesterday 04:37 PM
Its been my ímpression from what i have read that the % of true believers isnt that high, it seems like most people are just going though the motions.
And i was not talking about chaos cults, but just regular people feeling things like despair or anger or lust.
It didn't actually finish happening, but that was one of the parts of the Emperor's plan just prior to the Horus Heresy.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-05-23, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I'm going to tread carefully and say that with the level of affirmation that the Imperial cult has, the percentage of true believers is rather high. As an experiment, flick through a typical fluff image of an imperial city, then replace every sign of the aquilla with a cross or other religious symbol of your choice. Frightening, isn't it?
As somebody noted, people like Cain who only pay lip service to the Emperor, are not the norm.
Whether a person believes or not, generally doesn't have an affect on their behaviour though - they can grumble about taxes the Administorum levies, the lateness of the last food shipment, how the quotas are too high and even make half hearted appearances in the temple during service day, wishing they were still in bed. However, when they say they praise the Empreror, they still believe.
This is aside from obvious signs of his divine majesty, such as the Soroitas Living Saints, the Astronomicon and his angels of death, the Astartes.
As Arthur C. Clarke said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" (or in this case, divine providence), thus while we know that Marines are made from numerous amounts of implants, psycho-conditioning, heavy indoctrination and intense training, the common folk don't and just see these elite warriors and protectors who believe in the divinity of the Emperor unquestionably.
Sure they do, they're only human. You can't ask people to stop being human - even the Astartes are guilty of one or two of those emotions.
It's a bit of a big step from being angry at your shift manager to directly serving Khorne though.Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-23 at 04:25 AM.
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2012-05-23, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Nope (Only Navigators, with their Warp Sight, can see the Astronomican at all), but the lack of an Emperor to be Soulbound with would cause the Astropaths to all go insane, die or be possessed by Daemons within a month of the Big E dying, assuming that he didn't go Star Child. In short, FTL comms become impossible for the Imperium shortly after the Emperor dies and combined with Warp travel becoming much, much slower and less reliable (basically, they'd need to go with the Tau method of making a series of very short jumps then reorienting), long-distance Imperial command and supply chains would all be very irrevocably cut. As was said earlier, the best the Imperium could hope for is individual Sectors banding together into small, easily overrun splinter-empires.
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2012-05-23, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Re: The Emperor not beating the tar out of the Chaos Gods the first time round.
He basically did.
Horus was their vessel, and he didn't just beat him: He removed his very soul from existence, in both the Aether and the Material.
Did he use Holocaust? Probably.
And, yeah, the big E probably knew he'd become some sort of weird God type thing if people believed in him...
However... he did not want this to happen, at least not immediately.
If he dies and goes Star Child, that may have some negative consequences that he knew of, that we are not yet aware of. Creating a fifth Chaos God, utterly different from the Emperor seems likely.
Still...
Cypher is the man. I'd vote for him. He'll save the Imperium!
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2012-05-23, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
As somebody noted, people like Cain who only pay lip service to the Emperor, are not the norm."Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire." - Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved with a suitable application of high explosives.
"Time to throw the dice." - Mat Cauthon, Wheel of Time
"Nothing good can ever come from staying with normal people."
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2012-05-23, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-23, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Yeah, you can't go wrong with thinking 'medieval European mindset' for the vast, vast, vast majority of people in the Imperium.
The religious beliefs of Space Marines, generally, are irrelevant. In an Imperium of trillions, there are only about a million Space Marines.Last edited by bluntpencil; 2012-05-23 at 09:40 AM.
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2012-05-23, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The highest figure for the Imperium's population I've seen was in Deathwatch when describing the number of psykers:
"amongst an empire of a billion billion they number in their millions".
That's a rather high figure though- and would require a much larger Imperium than the million world's figure usually given (a billion or more worlds is occasionally given).Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2012-05-23, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Cain's been a soldier for a long time and veterans of all stripes tend to develop a very black sense of humour.
I wouldn't say their beliefs were irrelevant if they are the visible manifest of the Will of the Emperor to the general populace.
I don't think I can really offer examples without triggering board rules though.Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-23 at 01:06 PM.
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2012-05-23, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I thought that the emperor couldn't do much manifesting of power due to being deep deep underground where he can't see anything.
And I think I know a surefire way of a huge amount of the imperium losing faith in the emperor:
Show the universe what the Emperor looks like, I was surprised at what he really looked like when I first saw it.My extended signature.
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2012-05-23, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten