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2010-11-03, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Malsheem, Nessus
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
So it looks like we need 4 more archons to fill the slots, if Wardens are going to Lunia/Mercuria. Ideas, anyone?
As for the Lunia and Lunia/Outside archons, I'd actually prefer swapping those two. I think lantern archons would fit better as the Lunia/Outside ones because (A) they're the first summonable archon, with SM IV, and (B) they have the whole petitioner thing going on, while the trumpet archons would "herald" creatures' (and souls' and petitioners') arrival in Celestia and the start of their ascent up the mountain. (Plus, trumpet archons make a better first line of defense. ) Thoughts?
The CPsi archon is called the sybillic guardian, and has little to no psionic flavor (just a few psi-like abilities and no unique capabilities; another ****ing "Psionic X" from WotC ). It's not worth including.
As for the hammer archons, I was planning to have them as one of the variation on the sword archon.
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2010-11-03, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
It's interesting- but I think the Gates of Heaven project would probably work best if it falls somewhere between it, and the existing BoED material.
I like the names and concepts of the existing Celestial Hebdomad.
That said, the Dicefreaks rules mechanics, for divinities, and beings that work in a similar fashion (cosmic ranks rather than divine ranks) could be worth pinching, in order to make "The Gates of Heaven" have a similar (though not identical) "feel" to The Gates of Hell.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2010-11-03, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-03, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
You don't even really need to use VoP, after all, you can just give a monster the appropriate boni to all scores and say that it doesn't use items.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-03, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2010-11-03, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-03, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Last edited by Eldan; 2010-11-03 at 06:27 PM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-03, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-03, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I like the notion of at least one psionic archon- for Pistis Sophia.
Could be slightly monk-ish in flavour as well- maybe like an unarmed psychic warrior?
The name "sibyllic guardian" sounds more like it would fit with the Erathol the Seer though- what with sibyls being seers in Greek mythology.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2010-11-03, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I do have the Tome of Magic. The word Archon, here, is challenge rating 9, with 10 HD. It seems more geared towards combat, really, with high strength, constitution and intelligence. Apparently, their job is protecting "concepts", by making sure words are not abused. Their picture is boring: making them seem humans (not even weird humanoids) with wings. Yawn. Why can't we have AD&D pictures back. They have a few utterances and standard archon abilities.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-03, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2004
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- Melbourne, Australia
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
To see the world in a grain of sand
and Heaven in a wild flower
To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
and eternity in an hour.
- William Blake, Auguries of Innocence
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2010-11-04, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Malsheem, Nessus
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
My plan was to leave it as word archon (since all the others have fairly generic names: trumpet, lantern, hound, etc.) and give the variations more interesting names. Coincidentally enough, I was actually thinking of doing logos, pathos, and ethos versions--logos getting utterances, pathos getting power words, and ethos getting the holy word/castigation/righteous wrath-type effects, in addition to whatever abilities they share.
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2010-11-04, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
The Authority is mostly done for what it's worth; the only major component not finished is the Martial Adept variant. The Principality has received some minor edits, but I haven't gotten around to a hook or sample NPC yet.
Also, thoughts on expanding to Fax Celestis' new Competitor Forums? It could work as a place to keep most of the behind the scenes stuff and discussion so as not to clog up this forum, with the major things on both sites.
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2010-11-04, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
I've added a few minor things to Lunia today, but I'd appreciate a little more feedback, and perhaps a few ideas from other people. I'm currently thinking over Nemmiron, which I'll probably write up next. As by RipvanWormer's excellent suggestion, I'll be making it a little quasi-babylonian and dragon-themed.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-04, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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2010-11-04, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Right over here.
Most of it's rewritten from other sources, really.Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-05, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Okay, folks. It's good to see some veteran Freaks here, the help will definitely go a long way. Now, on that note, we've got a pretty sizeable hole that needs to be filled up. We've got our Hebdomad, and we've got the High Caste Archons. But we don't have any Powers. Remember, these guys are the good equivalent of the Dukes of Hell. They play a pretty big role in Heaven, and we have -nothing- on them. Zilch. Nada. But-kiss. So, I say we need to start throwing some stuff around for them. Names, concepts, roles, etc. Are we in accordance?
SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2010-11-05, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-05, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Not really, they all fell with him by most accounts. In any event, some ideas for Powers:
Lieutenants for each of the Hebdomad
Leaders of the High Castes or even the lesser castes
The leaders of various important settlements
Important emmisaries to other planes
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2010-11-05, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-05, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Well, my original concept had him as the former head of the Dominions; so it would make sense for the current head to be an old acquaintance of his. Probably the same with the Virtues and Belial or the Authorities and Eblis. In fact, I might just do some tweaks to my Sandalphon and make him into the current head of the Authorities. Will that work?
Also, with the way my High Castes are set up, the Powers are probably going to end up more powerful than Dukes.Last edited by Iamyourking; 2010-11-05 at 02:46 PM.
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2010-11-05, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Would that mean that pretty much every caste leader fell? That sounds, well, a little unlikely, given that they are supposed to be some of the most archon-y archons.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-05, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
3 out of 5, which I suppose is a bit much. Still, Gates of Hell claims that Beelzebub and Eblis were Seraphim and Belial was a Kerub who turned down promotion to Seraph multiple times; so there is some precedent for them being some of the highest of the high. Perhaps Belial could be bumped down a bit; but I think that for the Great Fall to really have meaning Eblis and Beelzebub should have been some of the most powerful Archons, especially seeing as how they are an Arch-Devil and Lord of the Nine respectively at the moment and shouldn't have been too much weaker than the Hebdomad when they were still loyal.
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2010-11-05, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2010-11-05, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Ama'varde
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2010-11-05, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
As it says: "Angels". Archons ain't angels.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-11-05, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Still, I think that making those three Archons wouldn't hurt; although I'm of the opinion that Celestia's hierarchy should include both LG Angels and Archons, as I hardly think the Archons would discriminate against their fellow LG celestials.
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2010-11-08, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- The Serpent's Throne
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Alright folks, I gave you all weekend to get the juices flowing. Back at the grind! Back at the grind! Where there's a whip there's a way! Alright, you've got a deadline. Eldan, King, Jack; I want to see three concepts for Powers by Wednesday. From each of you. Nothin' fancy. Just a name and a title at the absolute bare minimum. Anything beyond that is on your own. And if anyone else wants to kick in, start moving! It's November, but soon it'll be the Christmas season, and they ain't singin' "Mercane We Have Heard on High", now are they, cutters? Sometimes they sing about Mi-Go, though. That's always a little worrying.
Last edited by The Tygre; 2010-11-08 at 08:46 PM.
SpoilerMy Characters
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft
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2010-11-08, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
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- Imperial Secret
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Very well, you shall have your Powers.
Azrael, the Prince of Power: The strongest Archon in the Heavens, Azrael is veteran of the armies of Celestia who became the personal champion of Raziel and a patron to strength after a brief stint in the Authorities and credited wins over several notable Demons. He fought alongside Raziel in the Great Fall and fought Eblis in single combat; notably managing to survive the encounter. Unique among the more martial archons, he scorns weapons and trusts only the immense strength of his body to bring him victory; an eccentricity that is accepted by Raziel due to the fact that weapons have to be custom made for him and have a tendency to break when he uses them.
Jophiel, Exarch of the Principalities: A humble Archon, Jophiel has been asked repeatedly to rise to the Dominions or even represent Lunia in the council of Crowns but has turned down the position every time; citing that although he would be happy to serve, his sense of duty prevents him from abandoning the mortals that he has helped so much. Similarly, he refuses to command his fellow Principalities and only took the title of Exarch out of a personal request from his former overseer, now representing Mercuria in the Council. He instead continues on as he always has, helping mortal civilizations towards the path of Law and Good and searching for the influence of the dark Principalities.
Melchizedek, the High Judge: Personally appointed by Zaphkiel after a distinguished career that included long terms of service in the Dominions, a seat on the Council for Jovar, and work as a top aide of multiple members of the Hebdomad, Melchizedek presides over the 21 members of the Council of Crowns and is considered to be the greatest of the Powers. In the council chamber, he is the last word on rulings when it comes to the policies of Celestia and can be overriden only by a unanimous vote of the Thrones, a four-sixths majority of the Hebdomad, or a direct decree from Zaphkiel; the abscence of such being considered a good indicator of the quality of his service. His further duties including opening and closing the legislative sessions of the Council, officially proposing new decrees to be put to the vote, and serving as the official spokesman and representative of the Council to both the Hebdomad and Celestia at large.
Thoughts? Azrael is pretty obviously a reflavored Sandalphon, but I figure there's no point in putting the statblock to waste.Last edited by Iamyourking; 2010-11-09 at 12:27 AM.
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2010-11-09, 04:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Switzerland
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Re: The Gates of Heaven: Giving Celestia the Dicefreaks Treatment
Powers... gorramit. I'm bad at those. Okay. (I haven't seen that Mi-Go one... I thought I had seen all the Lovecraft carrols). Anyway, these are all associated with Lunia. I'm pretty sure people will recognize one of them
Melichior the Awakener, Warden of the Amber Gate
Between the layers of Lunia and Mercuria stand the Amber Gates, first and mightiest of the Archon's fortifications. While mortals ascending to the higher layers are expected to find one of the paths of virtue and follow it, the archons are pragmatic enough that not all traffic between layers can be expected to take these long and strenuous paths of self-discovery. The Amber gates serve as a way to control trade traffic. The titular gates are massive, gem-studded and always closed, save for when the host of archons rides out in force.
Meilchiors duty is overseeing the gate and it's defence: he controls a force of sword and warden archons patrolling the walls, and Owl archons whose duty it is to scan all incoming travellers and ask their intention.
Melichior himself appears with the body of a muscular man with the head of a lion and the wings of an eagle, all shimmering in the colour of bronze, holding a halberd in one hand and a key in the other. He is stern and humourless, disapproving of any mortal taking the easy way into Celestia instead of proving their virtue, but grudgingly accepting the necessity, and never obsessing about bureaucratic detail. Still, he spends most of his time in his war room, playing through endless fiendish attacks in his head and on gigantic models of lunia with his sword archon generals, and rarely shows himself to mortals.
Radiant Sachiel
This Power is the ruler of the city of Haven on Lunia, and overseer of all commercial endeavors the Archons have with other races, be they outsiders from the other upper planes, Moradin's dwarven petitioners or mortals. Appearing as a seven foot tall human male with silver skin and an impressive, white beard, the always smiling Sachiel is a shrewd, if honest, businessman. He is charged with supplying the Host of the Archons with the high-quality weapons and armour forged by the dwarves or imported from Bytopia, supplying them with magic items from all over the planes and with equipping the order of the planes militant, the mortal arm of the Celestial Host.
Duma the Serene, Archon of Silence, Bearer of the Keys
Appearing as a man in a simple, white robe, with a key around his neck, Duma has a dangerous, but necessary job amongst the Archons: he is their envoy to Perdition.
As by a small, but important, clause in the Pact Primeval, Celestia is allowed to send a single envoy of their choice to Baator, to oversee the operations and maintain diplomatic connections. Of course, despite their common goals in the blood war, the relationship between Baatezu and Archons is, at the best of times, murderous, and there is not a single Baatezu who would not rather see Duma dead, if it were not for the fact that they are contractually obligated not to harm him. Instead, the Archdevils send a constant stream of tempters and temptations after Duma, trying to take him over for their side.
Still, the Archon of Silence bears his duty without complaint. It was his appointment since the time when the first Archons fell, and he has never given in to the constant temptations of Hell. Instead, he visits all Erinnyes and fallen Archons in turn, reminding them, without condemning them, of what they have given up for the power of hell.
He never speaks, being the Archon of Silence, instead being a master of relying meaning solely through body language and facial expressions.Resident Vancian Apologist