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2010-04-14, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Still wondering what to give my Nobs vs power armor-heavy armies - TL Shootas, Kombi-scorchas, or Kombi-rokkits?
Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-04-14, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Well this is entirely based on scale. Metal models are relatively cheap to make a few of, but very expensive to make a lot of. They don't get cheaper with mass production.
Of course plastics are exactly the opposite, being really expensive for a few and really cheap the more you make.
You know for sure that moving to plastics, even with their high up-front cost, is better for GW's bottom line or they wouldn't be doing it, regardless of which was better for the consumer.
As for the quality... I would say that GW's current line of plastics are of higher quality then any of the metal models. I've never really been a fan of metals and I really wish they would replace all of them, including characters, though I know that isn't practical. I really wish the Battletech line would switch over to plastics (right now they have a limited production trail run of just 2 'Mechs). The detail of plastics has gone up dramatically too, and I feel to the point where it is a lot better. Especially where it comes to flash and mold lines.
As for GW price gouging on metal models, I generally don't see that, as they aren't any more then Ironwind Metals or some of the others. Most of what makes other game systems cheaper isn't that the models are significantly less expensive, its that games are played with a lot fewer of them, with the exception of a few games that uses masses of very basic models.
As for durability... both have their advantages, but I don't see metals as being better unless you count the fact that they are easier to strip if you want to repaint them. They don't stay together nearly as well, they bend a lot easier, they are harder to glue and modify, and their added weight makes dropping them a lot more likely to cause big breaks. And to me they tend to have a bit more issue with paint flaking off edges.
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2010-04-14, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
So, i just got the new Blood Angels Codex. I was really quite a fan of the old PDF one, even with all of it's limitations, but you know, it made i feel more... homely, and rough. Anyway, looking at this shiny heap of new rules in front of me I can't help but think that they're a little too good. Are the new blood angels an army just waiting to be abused by powergamers worldwide?
Thank you Lostone for the avatar!
"I was driven Insane by long periods of horrible saninty"
-Edgar Alan Poe(yay, the poe guy!)
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2010-04-14, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
More Power Klaws. Just save your points and stick with TL Shootas. Maybe throw a Kombi-Skorcha or two in there. Kombi-Rokkits aren't worth it.
I've got half a Blood Angels guide written up. Similar to the Black Teplars link in the second post of this thread. Should be finished by the weekend.
Short answer; Yes and no.
Long answer;
Here's some things to consider;
The Red Thirst isn't even bad. You trade Combat Tactics for Fearless. Normally, Fearless can be bad, but, you're in Power Armour, you can hack it. And then you get free Furious Assault.
Descent of Angels isn't the best thing in the world. It just makes Deep Strike less bad. You could do without it if you wanted to, it's just a bonus.
Its only real use is for Vanguard.
Librarians. Their power selections are rather good. Add Jump Packs.
'Lord Level Chaplains' are back (even though DA and BTs have had them for years, cheaper and therefore better). But they still have nothing on a Librarian with decent powers.
Captains suck.
Furioso Dreadnoughts are about as good as Ironclads - they just perform different roles.
Librarian Dreadnoughts. Wings of Sanguinus. Also has an S10 Force Weapon.
Sanguinary Priests. They're really cheap. There's no reason not to take three in any army. They remove the need to try and roll lucky on Red Thirst.
The 'Sternguard in Drop Pod' trick is even better with Descent of Angels.
Assault Squads as Troops. As well as the ability to carry real weapons (like Meltaguns).
Assault Squads able to take cheaper transports (most notably Razorbacks and Land Raiders). There are lists going around with 2 LRs in 750 points. 3 in 1000, 4 in 1500, etc.
I'm personally making an LRR List.
Assault Squads also have access to 'free' Drop Pods, in addition to being able to carry dual Meltaguns or Flamers.
Death Company are...Okay. They're about as killy as Nob Bikers, but, can't cap objectives, and are quite a large point-sink (considering that they can't cap objectives). But, they are killy. Also don't come with a cover save. Large Blast, low AP weapons kill them easily enough.
Fast Razorbacks.
(Fast Rhinos are not that good, in comparison)
Do Blood Angels get cheaper Vanguard? (I'm Away from Codex) Anyway, they get Descent of Angels, which is nice for them.
Baal Predators are Fast, and Scouting. Scouting Tanks. Yeah.
Fast Vindicators and Predators.
Whirlwinds still suck. Even if they are Fast.
IIRC (AFC); They trade Thunderfire Cannons for Stromravens. IMO not a good trade.
Mephiston is T6, 5 Wounds. Is not an Independent Character. CAN NOT JOIN UNITS. Ruin Mephiston with Thunder Hammers. I'm also pretty sure (AFC) that Mephiston doesn't have an Invulnerable Save, nor Eternal Warrior. Use Anti-Wraithlord Tactics against him he goes down pretty quickly. He's also twice the points of one Wraithlord.
He's easier to kill than a Wraithlord since he's only T6, and can take a wound or two from Bolters and the like.
He's also harder to kill as he has 5 Wounds and is a smaller model (True LoS and all).
...Still, that's not comparing like points to like points. 250 Points;
2 Wraithlords are way scarier than one Mephiston.
Tonight at Games Night we're putting Lysander (me) up against Mephiston (the Store). Since Lysander is the Beowulf of 40K and is an hero and doesn't afraid of anything.
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2010-04-14, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
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2010-04-15, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Princess in the streets.
Princess in the sheets.
Don't touch me I'm royalty.
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2010-04-15, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
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2010-04-15, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Should we head to the new thread yet, or what? I'd like to post up my new army list, see what you guys think of it. See if I can get any suggestions on beating dire avenger/jetbike/scatter laser spam Eldar..thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2010-04-15, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Because Dire Avengers come with a magic 4+ save, and don't die to Bolters. Never underestimate that.
Better Ballistic Skill - along with better guns. On top of the Exarch's Bladestorm ability, it makes them crap on Guardians at doing what Guardians do.
Then you follow up a nice Bladestorm with an Assault. Where they have better WS and I. On top of the Exarch's Power Weapon/Dire Sword. Then, after that, if you're like me, you've got the Defend Power, making your enemy lose one attack. Then, for Power Weapons, you've got a lovely Shimmershield to save you.
And, all that for +50% points cost of Guardians? Yes please. Maybe you didn't read the Codex right.
Some people take Guardians for the Heavy Weapons platform, but, really, there are other ways you can get those Weapons without having to spend points on useless Guardians as well.
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2010-04-15, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Yuuup. That's pretty much what my girlfriend did with her Eldar. Fortunately they die pretty easily with enough application of FIRE.
Guardians are little more than ten wounds on a heavy weapons platform. I hate that thing. Scatter lasers...
Oh, uh, quick question- I have six leftover regular bolter ladies, from this lot I got off Ebay. What should I do with them? Turn them into celestians? Count-as retributors? Or just get a couple special weapons and a superior and make another regular squad?
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2010-04-15, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Well, I was hoping he would fail at least some armour saves amongst the, like, fifteen I made him roll (no. Not a single 1 or 2.).
And my Chaos Lord failing to wound with more than one of the five attacks that hit (needing a 3+ to wound) did not help either.
It still turned out as a draw (four objectives, one claimed by me, one by him, one contested and one unclaimed; personally I actually thought I won, but my opponent was of the opinion his squad was close enough to contest that objective, and I did not want to be a git and spoil his mood by meticulously measuring the distance to prove him wrong).
That guy was playing an Imperial Guard army with Grey Knight support (it was a 1600 points game; if I remember correctly, he had a Lord Commissar, two Veteran squads, a Leman Russ, a Leman Russ Executor, two squads of Grey Knights, an Inquisitor Lord with retinue, and an Orbital Bombardment). It's hardly a tournament list, but it worked pretty well.LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2010-04-15, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Speaking of Tournaments;
So, You want to go to a tournament, do you? Here's a few things you need to consider when writing your list. You don't have to prepare against all of them (very few armies can), but, you should at least know what you face;
Does the majority of your army have a 5+ save or worse? Can your army reliably defend against at least 2 or 3 rounds of AP5 (Bolters, etc.) fire somehow? (Lots of numbers, Cover Saves 'in the open', etc.)
What happens when your army gets Assaulted?
Can your army shut down psychic powers? (Psychic Hood, Shadow in the Warp, etc.)
How does your army deal with - or get around - Leadership checks? Specifically Pinning checks and Tank Shock.
What do you do when your opponent 'deploys first' but deploys no units?
Do you have units that can capture or contest objectives over 12" away quickly (in the last turn)?
Are you sure you have enough Scoring Units? Check again. Are you sure? Check again. Really? You sure?
AP3 (or less) weapons? Do you have some?
Do you have reliable Anti-Tank weapons? AP1? Can they manoeuvre to Rear Armour - or at least Side Armour - easily?
What about dealing with Mechanised Lists?
What about lists with two, three - or more - Medium/Heavy Tanks (Vindicators, Leman Russes, Hammerheads, etc)?
What happens if the opposing vehicle is immune to Melta, Lance or Ordnance rules?
What about Land Raiders? Two?
How 'bout Monoliths? Two? Three?
How does your army deal with Terminators? What about in Assault?
How does your army deal with Wraithlords? What about two or three?*
How does your army deal with Walkers that get into Assault?
How does your army deal with Outflankers or Deep Strikers?
How does your army deal with units with Cover Saves (as low as 2 or 3+)? Reliably.
*If your army can deal with Wraithlords, it can deal with Daemon Princes and TMCs as well.
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2010-04-15, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
I presume this is a general piece of advice, directed at everyone, not me specifically? Because no, I do not have any intentions of going on any tournament any time soon (though if the opportunity presented itself, I wouldn't decline, either).
Hmmm... I think my usual lists score well enough on most of these questions, except for the shutting down psychic powers (no such options for CSM) and cover saves (other than 1-2 flamers, my usual response to cover saves is getting into close combat) ones.LGBTitP Supporter
In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
- Lewis Carroll
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2010-04-15, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
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2010-04-15, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
The other thing Cheesegear missed mentioning is the 18" range instead of 12". That means they can start making use of their weapons well outside of range of most units, even fleet units would have a hard time assaulting them when they start opening fire, which is important for shooting unit.
However, I still use guardians, though I seem to be about the only one. They get a lot less attention and they are about half the price once you add in the upgrades for the DA (guardians never need a warlock how I use them). You have to make sure to put their assaulty heavy weapons to use though and not just treat it like a heavy weapon from other armies. And if you are spending 85+ points on a single heavy weapon that just sits there with "extra wounds" then you may as well be using something else. Either use the fact that they are a low priority target to get them somewhere useful, or find a way to make them annoying enough that they take shots that could have been directed to more dangerous units.
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2010-04-15, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
if you wish to use them now celestians are not too bad, however do not expect them to work too much better than your normal sisters. They are 2 points more a model and net you a faith point. All their other abilities in the long run are not worth the extra 2 points.
I would pick up some special weapons and make them a regular squad. retributor points are better spent on organs of doom (personal opinion but most people will agree) and a dominion squad will not be using any of the models (unless you want to convert them into storm bolter ladies which I hear work rather well with faith points)Check out my horrible homebrews
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2010-04-15, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
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2010-04-15, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
So, here's my Ork army... Or at least, how it'll look once I'm done with all the assembly and conversion.
Spoiler
Warboss
-Power Klaw
-Twin-Linked Shoota
-'Eavy Armor
-Bosspole
-Cybork
------------110 Points
Nobs x 6
-Eavy Armor x 6
-Twin-Linked Shootas x 3
-Kombi-Scorchas x 2
-Power Klaws x 2
-Painboy upgrade
-Cybork bodies x 6
-Grot Orderly
-------------315 Points
Nobs x 3
-Bikes
-Power Klaws x 2
-Painboy upgrade
-Cybork bodies x 3
-Grot Orderly
-------------235 Points
Boyz x 31
-Sluggas and Choppas
-Big Shootas x 3
-'Eavy Armor x 21
-Nob upgrade
--Power Klaw
-------------364 Points
Boyz x 21
-Shootas
-Big Shootas x 2
-Nob Upgrade
--Power Klaw
--'Eavy Armor
--------------171 Points
DeffKoptas x 3
-Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas x 3
--------------135 Points
Looted Wagon
-Boomgun
-Big Shootas x 2
-'Ard Case
--------------125 Points
Trukk
-Red Paint Job
-Armor Plating
-Reinforced Ram
--------------55 Points
Killa Kans x 3
-Big Shoota x 1
-Grotzookas x 2
--------------130 Points
TOTAL: 1640 Points
Wait... *checks notes* What?
Oh, I see it now. I thought I had 1750 points, since I accidentally miswrote a number in my original notes. Oops...
So yeah, what do ya'll think? Considering my opponents aren't even up to 1500 points yet, I'm content with this army for the time being. If I need to drop points to make the game even, I'll ditch the vehicles, starting with the Kans and Wagon.
Tactics:
-Warboss + Nobs in Trukk will Blitzkrieg the enemy, Tank Shocking and then Assaulting the juiciest unit they can find - ie: any unit without a power fist.
-'Ard Boyz are the Vanguard, charging the enemy. 'Eavy Armor will allow them to shrug off enough damage so that by the time they hit the enemy, there will be enough of them to do damage while not too many to clutter the field. The Nob can also use his Power Klaw as a can-opener if/when we drag Termies into the fray while the Boyz serve as meatshields.
-Shoota Boyz sit plunk themselves behind the best cover and/or over the nearest objective. They will then proceed toshootthrow ungodly amounts of dice at the enemy.
-The Koptas and Wagon will focus on vehicles and heavily armored foes, while the Kans will hunker down and ravage exposed infantry
-The Nob Bikers will just do whatever seems the most fun at the time. Assault the same unit the Nobs and Warboss are attacking, shoot up whatever infantry the Boyz are shooting/charging at, or help demolish enemy armor... It just depends on the situation, really.
Thoughts?Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-04-15, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
-I'm not intimately familiar with the Ork ForceOrg Chart, but split those Kans up as much as possible.
-I don't think you can actually HAVE 31 Orks in a unit. The Nob Upgrade is an upgrade, upgrading an existing Boy as opposed to tacking on a Nob, I believe.
-That 'Ard armor is -really- costing you, to the point where you could probably grab two units of twenty boyz and be on your way to a third for the same price as that one unit of thirty.
-I personally wouldn't trust the Trukk to be reliable for your Warboss and Nobs since it can be taken down or at least immobilized with S4 weapons. Also, one trukk, as said before, is only a third or a fourth as effective as two trukks.Last edited by Arcanoi; 2010-04-15 at 04:48 PM.
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2010-04-15, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Descent of Angels isn't the best thing in the world. It just makes Deep Strike less bad. You could do without it if you wanted to, it's just a bonus.
Its only real use is for Vanguard.
...
And then, this Terminator-hard unit unloads 5-6 meltaguns/bolters in your face, killing absolutely everything save for biggest Ork/Guard squads
But they still have nothing on a Librarian with decent powers.
Captains suck.
Furioso Dreadnoughts are about as good as Ironclads - they just perform different roles.
Assault Squads able to take cheaper transports (most notably Razorbacks and Land Raiders). There are lists going around with 2 LRs in 750 points. 3 in 1000, 4 in 1500, etc.
I'm personally making an LRR List.
Fast Razorbacks.
(Fast Rhinos are not that good, in comparison)
Do Blood Angels get cheaper Vanguard?
Whirlwinds still suck. Even if they are Fast.
IIRC (AFC); They trade Thunderfire Cannons for Stromravens. IMO not a good trade.
Mephiston is T6, 5 Wounds. Is not an Independent Character. CAN NOT JOIN UNITS.
Invulnerable Save
Eternal Warrior
He's easier to kill than a Wraithlord since he's only T6, and can take a wound or two from Bolters and the like.
Or deepstrike from Stormravens?
Tonight at Games Night we're putting Lysander (me) up against Mephiston (the Store). Since Lysander is the Beowulf of 40K and is an hero and doesn't afraid of anything.Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!
"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2010-04-15, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
If you can't get a second turn charge with jump infantry something is wrong (okay, it might end up being a second turn charge against a bad choice of target). Deep Striking jump infantry are third turn charge minimum.
If you mean sanguinary guard, they're not "terminator hard" since they have no invulnerable saves. Seriously, if 10 stormbolter shots could kill anything then grey knights and deathwing would be good. You can get the meltagun thing off vanguard for cheaper.
That may just be the point. I don't know, I play the chapter that apparently gets god-chaplains for 95 points.
I saw that get used. It missed.
Really? I can fit 3 into 1000 with standard marines.
Captain -100
Scouts -85
missile launcher
Scouts -85
missile launcher
Redeemer - 240
Redeemer - 240
Land Raider - 250
total 1000
The +6 inches of speed is an illusion. The real advantage of fast is firing all your guns when you move 6.
I saw mephiston fight Grey Knights today. Well, I saw him cast a power, jump 12", fleet and then charge into combat. Then I got back to my Empire vs Chaos Warriors game and next time I looked there was no Mephiston and half as many Grey Knights.Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-04-15 at 08:00 PM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2010-04-15, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sydney
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
Avatar by me.
My other avatars.
The rest of my signature.
Spoiler
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2010-04-15, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
No I haven't. Like I said, once I finish assembly and conversion, that'll be the army I have. The Nobs are AoBR Nobs, so I've got to get stabby on 'em with a hobby knife anyway...
Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-04-15, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
As its been said, boyz mobs cant be more than 30. The nob is an upgrade.
Otherwise..... have you considered using your looted wagon as a battlewagon instead? You could strap some boyz in the trukk and give the boss+nobs a more reliable transport.
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2010-04-15, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
The model I have for the Looted Wagon is too small to use for a Battlewagon...
Oops, silly oversight on my part. I thought I needed exactly 30 Boyz to have the 3 Big Shootas. Stupid me...Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-04-15, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashligh
Hokay then. Some critique.
1. Drop the TL Shoota on your Warboss and take an Attack Squig.
2. If you're going to upgrade the weapons on your Nobs, Kombi-Skorcha is the way to go. But again, you'll want to prioritise wound allocation, like so:
Spoiler
10 Nobs, Cyborks, Armour.
1. Slugga/Choppa.
2. Slugga/Choppa, Ammo Runt.
3. Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha.
4. Slugga/Choppa, Waaagh! Banner.
5. Painboy.
6. Slugga, Big Choppa.
7. Kombi-Skorcha, Big Choppa.
8. Power Klaw.
9. Power Klaw, Bosspole.
10. Power Klaw, Kombi-Skorcha.
Drop however many of them you need to make it fit your models.
3. 'Ard Boyz is an upgrade to the entire squad, not to individual models.
4. IMO, mobs of more than 20 Boyz should always be Shoota Boyz, and mobs of less than that should always be in transports. Take that as you will.
5. Deffkoptas are not very good, but since you have no Lootas they're probably the best anti-light vehicle you have. Get some Lootas instead.
6. Big Shootas on your Looted Wagon probably won't be doing much. I'd recommend getting rid of them.
7. Your Trukk upgrades probably aren't worth the points. Trukks are Fast anyway, so RPJ doesn't matter as much. Armour Plates only work 1/6 of the time, if that. Reinforced Ram is...unnecessary. If they fall back from your Tank Shock, you might not be able to assault them. Bad thing.
8. Grotzookas x2 should really be Grotzookas x3.I am the golden shadow. I am the Ninja Chocobo
Avatar by me.
My other avatars.
The rest of my signature.
Spoiler
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2010-04-16, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
That is not Descent of Angels. That's Commander Dante's special ability, and it's totally different.
And then, this Terminator-hard unit unloads 5-6 meltaguns/bolters in your face, killing absolutely everything save for biggest Ork/Guard squads
There are no Terminator-Hard units except for Terminators.
They're almost exactly the same as CSM ones, with combi-weapons being cheaper.
And CSM Lords are Fearless, get Marks and Daemon Weapons and then crap on everything.
So, you missed that meltagun combined with sort-of-like Lash of Submission?
It's not a Meltgun. It's AP2, and doesn't have 2d6 Penetration.
I didn't miss it, it's just not that good. It's a bonus piece of gear, sure, but it's not anything to write home about.
It's Lash effect is crap; You have to hit. You have to Penetrate, then you have to Penetrate again, except, you have to Penetrate the vehicle's highest AV, regardless of what direction you were shooting from.
Second, if you're shooting a vehicle, you're not using Blood Talons on Infantry.
Lash; Pass a Psychic Test on Leadership 10. Done. Success. Works on Infantry rather than vehicles. You can put the unit into Difficult or even Dangerous Terrain. The affected unit then takes a Pinning Test.
How is a Magna-Grapple anything close to as good as that?
Actually, out of these, 3 in 1000 are impossible.
Librarian 100
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
1000 exactly. Does amazingly well. No. It doesn't need to cap objectives. Because you've got 3 Land Raiders in 1000 points.
Why?
Why?
A lot of their DS abuse comes from this. Also, vehicle more killy than LRaider for 3/4 of the price and almost as durable.
It is also not 'more killy' since it has no Defensive Weapons (except optional Hurricane Bolters), yet still tries to be a Transport vehicle.
Outside of a Force Weapon, which is damn hard to bring through his I7 field of death, and maybe Blissgiver/Rod of Torment combo, nothing can IK him anyway.
Thunder Hammers break Mephiston in two. When he's down to I1, that's when you run your Librarian in. I've seen it done.
Also (below) is my recollection of events from last night, where Mephiston tried to fight some of the better (i.e; Common as dirt in tournaments) Uniques of the game.
Can they ride in vechicles?
Or deepstrike from Stormravens?
I'd like to see Mephiston Deep Strike, he has no Jump Pack. And will Dangerous Terrain and Mishap all over the place.
So, how it went?
EDIT: Lukas the Trickster died. But he died going 'LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!11!1!' so it doesn't count.
Lysander is Stubborn, Ld 10. Transfixing Gaze fails.
(Turns out we had the rules for Stubborn wrong, but, I still rolled a 5 anyway and did pass, even with the modifier)
Mephiston needs psychic powers to work. If they don't, he's less good. He also takes Perils Wounds like the failure that he is.
Mephiston is also not Stubborn or Fearless. And breaks from combat like a wuss.
Lysander's 3+ Invulnerable crapped all over him. Mephiston has no invulnerable. He took every wound like the b* that he is and was pasted to I1.
Lysander emerges victorious with 2 Wounds left. Because he's secretly Beowulf and will kill anything. Mister Fister is also ~50 points more. I was pleased.
Typhus killed Mephiston in one round;
Lots of attacks => Poisoned Power Weapon => No invulnerable => Force Weapon'd.
(Very unlucky rolls on Fisty's part)
- Typhus is very much a top-tier Unique already. I'm not surprised.
Abaddon took about as long as Lysander to kill Fisty. Then everyone boo'd because Abaddon costs more.
The Swarmlord raped Mephiston in one round. Again, Swarmlord costs more so everyone cried about it.
- Swarmlord might be the best Unique in the game though.
Skulltaker Invulnerabled (2+ vs. Force Weapons) through all Mephiston's attacks that managed to Wound. Then Skully killed Fisty in one round. Skulltaker was 160 Points (in a Chariot). Another top-tier Unique already.
And, as always, someone brought a unit of Fire Dragons to the table. Still haven't met anything they couldn't kill.
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2010-04-16, 03:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- TGaPT
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
Really? I can fit 3 into 1000 with standard marines.
That is not Descent of Angels. That's Commander Dante's special ability, and it's totally different.
Which unit is this? Are you talking about Sanguinary Guard? Because they suck. No invulnerables. 200 points for 5 models.
I might be wrong, though.
Except you've completely missed that BA Captains don't get Relic Blades or Artificer Armour (two staple choices of any Codex Captain). Don't make Bikes Troops in any way.
But yeah, considering the Chapter, lack of Relic weapons and armor is weird. Maybe because they didn't get to have all these Rogue Trader era gear they returned in C:SM?
And CSM Lords are Fearless, get Marks and Daemon Weapons and then crap on everything.
Fixed.
I didn't miss it, it's just not that good. It's a bonus piece of gear, sure, but it's not anything to write home about.
It's Lash effect is crap; You have to hit. You have to Penetrate, then you have to Penetrate again, except, you have to Penetrate the vehicle's highest AV, regardless of what direction you were shooting from.
False. You are wrong.
Librarian 100
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
Death Company 60 Land Raider Redeemer 240
1000 exactly. Does amazingly well. No. It doesn't need to cap objectives. Because you've got 3 Land Raiders in 1000 points.
You do realize Death Company is 0-1, unless you take Astorath the Grim, which will still totally ruin your example?
Sorry, I don't see any way to fit 3 LRs in 1000 points using C:BA.
Because Fast Whirlwinds are still Whirlwinds - and you get to pay extra points for the privilege. At least it's only 5 points more than normal. Apparently Matt Ward knows that even when Fast, Whirlwinds still suck. I thought that was obvious to all involved.
I don't see how. The units still scatter (1d6, not none). And get destroyed if only one model can't be deployed. Armour 12 is far less durable than Armour 14. Armour 12 is easy to break.
As for units, you can deploy them anywhere on the line of move, can't you just deploy them 5" from any obstacles?
But, to be fair, I always wondered why the whole unit is destroyed, instead of not-fitting part.
Do you know how many Force Weapons get taken into a tournament? Lots.
Thunder Hammers break Mephiston in two. When he's down to I1, that's when you run your Librarian in. I've seen it done.
Also (below) is my recollection of events from last night, where Mephiston tried to fight some of the better (i.e; Common as dirt in tournaments) Uniques of the game.
Typhus killed Mephiston in one round;
Lots of attacks => Poisoned Power Weapon => No invulnerable => Force Weapon'd.
(Very unlucky rolls on Fisty's part)
- Typhus is very much a top-tier Unique already. I'm not surprised.Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!
"Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"
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2010-04-16, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
It's not a good point, if your 'oh so awesome' move takes a Unique character to pull off (it's what Unique characters do) and only works for one unit.
Well, their wargear looks pretty impressive. Reducing enemies to WS1, Meltaguns, AP4 Bolters - to me they seem just as useful as Terminators. Oh, and they can be taken as troops, which is a big plus.
I might be wrong, though.
No. No they can't be taken as Troops.
They do get Jump Packs instead, though, and Descent of Angels - after all, BA are all about JPs, not bikes.
Deploying on the board is usually a 2nd Turn Assault.
Deploying from Deep Strike is at best a 3rd Turn Assault. Or, maybe 2nd if you're using Drop Pods. Or 1st, if your enemy Assaults you.
Descent of Angels is a bonus. You can do just fine without it. It's only good for Vanguard. Descent of Angels is also completely over-ridden by Locator Beacons. Which work for Terminators and Drop Pods too. Yep, Locator Beacons also work when you jump out of a Stormraven.
Erm... do you mean they're good or bad here?
Har har har. I'm sometimes wrong, and regularly misguided
You do realize Death Company is 0-1, unless you take Astorath the Grim, which will still totally ruin your example?
Librarian 100
Death Company 60 Redeemer 240
Assault Squad 100 Redeemer 205
Assault Squad 100 Redeemer 205
...1010. It can be doable in the more friendly games.
Well... I, for one, don't get all the Whirlwind hate. It seems like an okay vehicle to me, which means I'm missing something crucial.
It is also a fast skimmer. Don't they get cover saves?
As for units, you can deploy them anywhere on the line of move, can't you just deploy them 5" from any obstacles?
Ermmm... Maybe I'm missing something here, but how do you move units in combat? And doesn't I1 mean that his window to strike long passed, unless there are Force Fists?
Step 1. Tie Mephiston up with Thunder Hammer Terminators - who also cart 3+ Invulnerables so wont die that easily.
Step 2. Whilst Fisty is I1, throw your Librarian in.
I wonder how non-unique Chaos Lord would have fared against him?
Toughness 4. No Eternal Warrior. Lower Initiative. No way to stop Mephiston using all his Psychic Powers or Force Weapon attacks. Pretty one-sided. Blissgiver might work if you're lucky enough.
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2010-04-16, 05:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- England
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Dakness? I brought my flashlight
May I add one more suggestion to your list?
What do you do when you suddenly find yourself looking across the table at an army you have no idea how to beat?
It's not likely, but it could happen. Say you rock up with a squad of Fire Dragons in a Falcon that are there to take down anything in armour, and looking back at you is an Alpha-Strike IG Tank army. More vehicles than you could theoretically kill even if you toasted one in every single turn of the game and assuming that the first thing they DIDN'T do was kill your Dragons?
What's your back-up plan when 'killing the enemy' simply won't work? Do you declare Going To Ground every turn and hope for the best? Or do you run at the enemy and hope for honourable death or bittersweet glory in one big wave of Swamping? They're desperate tactics, but they can work if you know before hand how to do it.
Anyone with their own Force Weapon and Invulnerable save backing them up would do it, to be honest.
Unfortunately this means Grey Knight Grand Masters are the most likely candidate, and although he's only half the cost of Mephiston you'd have to bring more Grey Knights with him, which do not make a good Tournament army.
Better off with a good roll on any Eldar Farseer's successful Mind War/Culexus Assassin's Life Drain would do it just fine. Heck, even Prince Yriel could do it on the charge, with a bit of luck.
Mephiston isn't as scary as people make him out to be, and hasn't been for a long time
And Chaos Terminators. And Orks in Mega-Armour. And Wraithguard.
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