The legend of Korra

[Reverent-One]

No. No it is not.

I'm tired of people constantly taking this tact "they didn't know they'd get another season! That's why the ending is so rushed! That's why the pacing in the series is so problematic!"

Let's suppose they never got another season and it ended after one season. Guess what? The pacing is still problematic throughout, with time being spent on characters or plots that are irrelevant, resulting in important things being skipped over or rushed through, particularly towards the end. Whether they got a second season or not is completely irrelevant to these issues.

You know he's not talking about those issues, right? He's responding to a comment about how the ending tied everything up without leaving any real loose ends. That's a totally different issue, and one that can be argued as being a result of not expecting to get more episodes after the intial 12.

[Flickerdart]

Actually in a game where you throw fireballs there WILL be accidents where people get their faces horribly melted off. A single mis-aim, somebody slips or tumbles or gets hit into the fire the wrong way and its burnsville for you.

I'm pretty sure Zuko is the only person in the entire show to get burned by firebending (except the one time Katara got burned when Aang was a firebending noob and lost control - something that won't happen with anyone but an Avatar, since anyone with that much power would also have more control of it) and that was done on purpose.

[Lord Seth]

You know he's not talking about those issues, right? He's responding to a comment about how the ending tied everything up without leaving any real loose ends. That's a totally different issue, and one that can be argued as being a result of not expecting to get more episodes after the intial 12.

It was still talking about the rushed nature of the ending.

[Scowling Dragon]

I'm pretty sure Zuko is the only person in the entire show to get burned by firebending and that was done on purpose.

Of course! That sure got me confused when all those firebending soldiers where shooting fire at Ang and the gang. They where just trying to tickle them to death! Cause as we all know fire doesn't burn unless you want it too.

Don't confuse kids TV logic with setting fluff.

[Dr.Epic]

I think we can all agree what the biggest mistake in season 1 was:

Spoiler

Show

Not nearly enough Meelo.

[Fragenstein]

I think we can all agree what the biggest mistake in season 1 was:

Spoiler

Show

Not nearly enough Meelo.

Spoiler

Show

[JadedDM]

I think the concept of having Korra re-learn the elements would just be a rehash of The Last Airbender, except more boring since there isn't a war going on at the moment. I would much rather the writers explore new ground than just repeat the same formula.

And yeah, Nickelodeon didn't believe in Korra at first. They thought the show would bomb because it had a female lead. It wasn't until it was proven successful that they agreed to another season. That's why the ending seemed so...'tidy.'

[Suichimo]

I'm pretty sure Zuko is the only person in the entire show to get burned by firebending (except the one time Katara got burned when Aang was a firebending noob and lost control - something that won't happen with anyone but an Avatar, since anyone with that much power would also have more control of it) and that was done on purpose.

Zuko burned Toph's feet at the Western Air Temple when she approached his camp at night and he was asleep.

[Flickerdart]

Zuko burned Toph's feet at the Western Air Temple when she approached his camp at night and he was asleep.

Ah yes, right. Still, that was again an attack intended to hurt or possibly even kill the person, which I'm pretty sure is not what they would use in pro bending.

Don't confuse kids TV logic with setting fluff.

Why would the two be distinct? It's pretty clear from all the non-burny fireblasts (the majority of them) that magical hand-fire is not the same thing as regular fire. Because hey, guess what? Fire doesn't have force. You can't push someone with fire. And yet that happens all the time.

[Dienekes]

Spoiler

Show

That was awesome

[kpenguin]

What I want to know is....

can Korra SLAM her JAMS

[Suichimo]

What I want to know is....

can Korra SLAM her JAMS

Well, the Gaang could, at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfmNRFJcHxs

[Lord Seth]

And yeah, Nickelodeon didn't believe in Korra at first. They thought the show would bomb because it had a female lead.

I'd be really interested in seeing sources for these claims.

[Scowling Dragon]

Bullcrap. Having a female lead would only attract more girls to the audience.

This isn't the 1950s.

[Mutant Sheep]

Bullcrap. Having a female lead would only attract more girls to the audience.

This isn't the 1950s.

But... COOTIES!

[Hiro Protagonest]

Ugh. It started a bit worse than the original and ended absolutely horrible.

Honestly, I think pro-bending was the only thing holding the series together. It managed to keep the side plot queue (which apparently the writers needed as the main plot seemed to only come around once every few episodes) filled with something halfway decent. The only other idea the writers had was "love triangle tension". I stopped less than halfway through the second-to-last episode, because I didn't like it anymore. The Avatar writers are the worst romance writers ever, it's as if they learned nothing from the first show, and in fact lost the point of "don't make it too heavy/central/whatever, this isn't a romance show".

[Geostationary]

This is relevant to current conversation, and I agree with many of its points- they botched the first season. Hopefully things go better in the new season, as I love me some spirits.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Bullcrap. Having a female lead would only attract more girls to the audience.

This isn't the 1950s.

We'd all like to think that I think... but in the media world strong gender perceptions persist and a lot of the nominal change of the past few decades is only skin deep. Stop and ask yourself how many action oriented shows have female lead characters... versus how many have maybe one or two ladies around to be girlsfriends, mothers, and other traditional supporting roles. (Or arguably worse get a varnish of being action girls or spunky heroines while never actually achieving much)

More important here though is the unfortunate but true fact that while girls will watch boy shows in respectable numbers, the opposite is not true. And in the voodoo tea-leaf reading world of marketing, merely having a female lead is enough to invoke that. The feeling that just by being a girl Korra is going to subconsciously repel potential male viewers, which will automatically outweigh any gains from a female audience.

Its no accident that Korra is the most aggressive and brash character in the show. (Not that that is the only reason)

[Dienekes]

Ugh. It started a bit worse than the original and ended absolutely horrible.

Honestly, I think pro-bending was the only thing holding the series together. It managed to keep the side plot queue (which apparently the writers needed as the main plot seemed to only come around once every few episodes) filled with something halfway decent. The only other idea the writers had was "love triangle tension". I stopped less than halfway through the second-to-last episode, because I didn't like it anymore. The Avatar writers are the worst romance writers ever, it's as if they learned nothing from the first show, and in fact lost the point of "don't make it too heavy/central/whatever, this isn't a romance show".

To be fair I almost like the way the romance was handled in the first show. It pops up annoyingly often at first, then during the big final conclusion bits it basically gets brushed off in a corner to be forgotten until the denouement when to be honest all the good stuff has already happened anyway.

If only all romances were so un-obstructive I might not despise romantic subplots as much as I do.

[Lord Seth]

Ugh. It started a bit worse than the original and ended absolutely horrible.

Honestly, I think pro-bending was the only thing holding the series together. It managed to keep the side plot queue (which apparently the writers needed as the main plot seemed to only come around once every few episodes) filled with something halfway decent. The only other idea the writers had was "love triangle tension". I stopped less than halfway through the second-to-last episode, because I didn't like it anymore. The Avatar writers are the worst romance writers ever, it's as if they learned nothing from the first show, and in fact lost the point of "don't make it too heavy/central/whatever, this isn't a romance show".

I feel there's a lot of things they didn't learn from the original series, season 3 in particular. People who've talked to me about Avatar know my disdain for season 3. And Korra was like a parade of all the problems I had with season 3.

I don't like Pro-Bending though. The whole thing seemed like a big waste of time. It really led nowhere, and the only contribution it made was introducing Mako and Bolin, who become pretty superfluous to the plot as soon as Pro-Bending ends.

I will agree, however, that Korra had one of the worst love triangles I've seen. I can't see what it accomplished other than making Mako and Korra look like horrible people. And being yet another thing that wasted time that could have and should have gone to more important plots.

[BRC]

I feel there's a lot of things they didn't learn from the original series, season 3 in particular. People who've talked to me about Avatar know my disdain for season 3. And Korra was like a parade of all the problems I had with season 3.

I don't like Pro-Bending though. The whole thing seemed like a big waste of time. It really led nowhere, and the only contribution it made was introducing Mako and Bolin, who become pretty superfluous to the plot as soon as Pro-Bending ends.

I will agree, however, that Korra had one of the worst love triangles I've seen. I can't see what it accomplished other than making Mako and Korra look like horrible people. And being yet another thing that wasted time that could have and should have gone to more important plots.

The worst thing about the Love Triangle was that they, I thought, did an excellent job of resolving it, before they brought it back up again. They had the Obligatory Romance Episode, which ended with Korra coming off as impulsive, inconsiderate, and somewhat selfish (As benefits her "Growing up being told she's the savior of the world" personality). Was it a waste of time? Maybe, but it provided some of that episodic character building that made the first show so great, and it ends with a good place for Korra to grow from, specifically regaining Bolin's trust and realizing she was kind of an ******* to everybody involved.

But Forcing a deeply, and realistically, flawed protagonist to analyze their own actions and grow? Not in THIS show! Instead, Bolin just kind of decides to be cool with it (While at the same time becoming basically irrelevant), and Mako and Asami just kind of break up so that "Protagonist gets their romantic interest" can be checked off. And Korra's big lesson is that, if you're a jerk who tries to manipulate and bully a guy into a relationship...you get him anyway, because you're the avatar.

[Soras Teva Gee]

There's probably more then a bit of pandering in that love triangle. While every fandom does it, outside of the Potterverse I'm not sure I've seen a fandom with shipping being so prominent in its activity.

Which doesn't change that honestly a 12 episode series probably no business delving into romance so heavily unless its the main plot. There just isn't the room to do the slow boil process that will make it all work. Especially when you've got several other threads needing attention.

[PlusSixPelican]

I wanted to see her do more airbending. I mean, Aang had a conceptual block with Firebending, but he still managed to pick it up after meeting with some fancy dragons. She picked up on the philosophy, but barely did any pew pew with the wind. Heck, it would have felt like less of an asspull if we'd seen her do it even in just three seperate scenes. Maybe a funny moment where Korra gets shoved off a cliff with a glider-staff.

And...meh, I would have liked to see Masami fall apart without it having been triangulated. Just...ya know, ships die. That sort of thing. Korra not being all selfish about it would have been...nifty? Like, sooooo much more character stuff comes out of it just failing and watching her flail about with doubt instead of...what happened.

I still liked the show, but still. C'mon.

[MLai]

It poses the question, would you have preferred an unfinished story with a possible movie to wrap up the loose ends ala Firefly, or a rushed but self contained story in a single season?

The former. AFAIC, unrealized potential is infinitely preferable to wasted potential. Because even if there's no follow-up movie/OVA/comics, there are always easily-realized fanfics and fancomics nowadays. Hell, the creators themselves could kickstart for an indie follow-up webcomic, if in some bizarro world no studio accepts their proposal for more seasons.

ON FIREBENDING:

I'm pretty sure Zuko is the only person in the entire show to get burned by firebending (except the one time Katara got burned when Aang was a firebending noob and lost control - something that won't happen with anyone but an Avatar, since anyone with that much power would also have more control of it) and that was done on purpose.

Huh, this goes back to the Aang vs Colonel Mustang thread. One of the questions that popped up was whether Firebenders have a sort of fire-retardant biostatic field surrounding themselves at all times. That way even if a firebender didn't have a chance to parry a fire attack, he'll be relatively unscathed (he'll still feel the explosive force, though) unless the power differential was just too great.

Zuko burned Toph's feet at the Western Air Temple when she approached his camp at night and he was asleep.

Non-firebenders don't have this Fire Resistance.

Ah yes, right. Still, that was again an attack intended to hurt or possibly even kill the person, which I'm pretty sure is not what they would use in pro bending.

This is true, in that fire can have different temperatures. Though ofc even the "coolest" fire is still fire.

Why would the two be distinct? It's pretty clear from all the non-burny fireblasts (the majority of them) that magical hand-fire is not the same thing as regular fire. Because hey, guess what? Fire doesn't have force. You can't push someone with fire. And yet that happens all the time.

Actually, in the vs thread I was never disproven when I said "Show me one instance where a non-firebender gets hit directly by fire, and doesn't get burned like IRL."
One person cited when Vagrant Hero Zuko finally shed his disguise and blasted the earthbender deserter-soldier-bully. Until I dissected the scene frame by frame, which showed that the bully did throw up a hasty guard to protect his exposed face, and he was in full earthbender-soldier gear, and since Earth Kingdom was in a protracted war with Fire Kingdom it only makes sense that all their soldiers are armored in asbestos.
Anything else is more "Hollywood partial resistance to harm" rather than "kid-friendly magical immunity to harm".
And you can "push someone with fire" if the method you used to propel that fire involved some sort of explosive or rapid-expansion force. Firebenders don't just magically levitate their fireballs towards their targets. It's also how high-end firebending allows flight/double-jump via "rocket feet."

ON AIRBENDING (and plotting):

I think the concept of having Korra re-learn the elements would just be a rehash of The Last Airbender, except more boring since there isn't a war going on at the moment. I would much rather the writers explore new ground than just repeat the same formula.

It all depends on the execution. Exactly because as you say, the circumstances are so different.
So Korra having multiple powers on hand, is not just repeating the same formula as season 1? See? You can pick anything apart if you just assume boring execution.
We've actually never had a storyline where the protag must learn and get used to newfound AIRbending powers. It's diluted in the canon now, because if Korra's airbending fails her (because she's new at it) at any time, she can just default to her other 3 which are at like Level 40.
And the absence of a big war means the story won't be ruined by "Must Catch Up To Plot NAO" storytelling. The pace would be less hurried so we can focus more on characterization, as a more "mature" show should.

[Brother Oni]

I wanted to see her do more airbending. I mean, Aang had a conceptual block with Firebending, but he still managed to pick it up after meeting with some fancy dragons.

Actually he had a conceptual block with Earthbending as its philosophical leanings (meet force with force and wear your opponent down via attrition) are the polar opposite to Airbending (evade and let your opponent wear himself out).

Firebending he picked up rather quickly, but the training accident with Korra gave himself an emotional block, which took the dragons to get over.

The former. AFAIC, unrealized potential is infinitely preferable to wasted potential.

That's entirely fine, just bear in mind that other people will prefer the latter choice. Obviously the creators decided on the other choice.

[endoperez]

Actually, in the vs thread I was never disproven when I said "Show me one instance where a non-firebender gets hit directly by fire, and doesn't get burned like IRL."
One person cited when Vagrant Hero Zuko finally shed his disguise and blasted the earthbender deserter-soldier-bully. Until I dissected the scene frame by frame, which showed that the bully did throw up a hasty guard to protect his exposed face, and he was in full earthbender-soldier gear, and since Earth Kingdom was in a protracted war with Fire Kingdom it only makes sense that all their soldiers are armored in asbestos.

Oh. You were that guy. As I remember it, you never accepted that your theory might be wrong, but several people were arguing for it.

Basically, you were saying "This is what I think, prove me wrong" instead of "this is what I think, here's the proof".
It's like saying Earthbending can't be used to break bones of earthbenders, because we never see any earthbenders with broken bones. Well, except that guy in The Divide, but that accident was too powerful even for his earthbending-infused bones. And the fact that non-earthbenders didn't get broken bones doesn't matter because when Iroh was captured by earthbenders in the first season, it was implied they could break his hands..



Here are two other cases of people getting burned by fire or firebending:

Zuko when his boat exploded.
That woman Zuko met when traveling alone, who had a burn on her leg.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. Korra might be inferior to the Last Airbender as a whole, but if we compare it to just the first season, I think Korra is actually better. Also, there are some questionable decisions, there's a stupid love triangle with a stupid resolution and the ending was rushed, but at the same time the action is great, the humour is great, the setting is amazing and for a kids' show it can get surprisingly morally complex at times. Also, Bolin is awesome.

Bullcrap. Having a female lead would only attract more girls to the audience.

This isn't the 1950s.

You'd be surprised. Having a female lead, or a non-white lead, tends to make a show more risky and more likely to bomb, at least in executive eyes. Why do you think most Hollywood movies that are not romantic comedies tend to be about a white dude?

Yes, the world of executives tends to be a nasty, socially backwards place.

[MLai]

Oh. You were that guy. Basically, you were saying "This is what I think, prove me wrong" instead of "this is what I think, here's the proof".

So you don't consider Korra's entire firebending graduation test as proof? (I referred to it in that thread too.)

It's like saying Earthbending can't be used to break bones of earthbenders, because we never see any earthbenders with broken bones.

You could make a case for it, actually. Consider how easily Jet, a skilled martial artist but non-bender, died to a single blunt earthbending attack. While we see Toph manhandling earthbenders like punting ragdolls in her intro episode, and they're all none the worse afterwards.

Zuko when his boat exploded.
That woman Zuko met when traveling alone, who had a burn on her leg.

1. Fire resistance does not mean "hur hur I no sell explosions."
2. She's an Earth Kingdom woman.

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. Korra might be inferior to the Last Airbender as a whole, but if we compare it to just the first season, I think Korra is actually better.

The elevated anger is precisely because it started off with such great potential. That critique blog linked earlier is excellent. With a few changes this season could have been the Citizen Kane of 21st-century cartoons, breaking all assumptions and tropes, being not just a deconstruction like Spec Ops The Line but also a cautionary tale applicable to daily life, and expose tweens/teens to possibly their first experience of moral ambiguity.

[Math_Mage]

I think the concept of having Korra re-learn the elements would just be a rehash of The Last Airbender, except more boring since there isn't a war going on at the moment. I would much rather the writers explore new ground than just repeat the same formula.

Sure, but it would be easy to tie elemental training into the obvious 'new ground' (greater exploration of the Spirit world), so I don't see that as a particularly high barrier. Indeed, I don't see any other way for them to play it. The barrier to Korra's other Bending wouldn't be anything like Aang's was; she has plenty of expertise, but her spiritual connection to the elements is blocked off.

And yeah, Nickelodeon didn't believe in Korra at first. They thought the show would bomb because it had a female lead. It wasn't until it was proven successful that they agreed to another season. That's why the ending seemed so...'tidy.'

Then Nickelodeon are idiots. How long did Kim Possible run again?

Which is what you get when accountants decide whether a series gets made in the middle of a recession.

It poses the question, would you have preferred an unfinished story with a possible movie to wrap up the loose ends ala Firefly, or a rushed but self contained story in a single season?

You're asking someone on the Internet to choose between being more like Firefly and being less like Firefly. Really, what answer do you expect to get?

But in all seriousness, LoK wasn't a story. It was a storyboard that someone decided to animate without fleshing it out because they "didn't have time" to do it properly. So yes, I prefer an unfinished story to an outline.

[Tengu_temp]

I take everything people who suggest show rewrites say with a pinch of salt. It's easy to be a critic, actually writing something is a different matter entirely, especially when you have a dozen things such as deadlines or executive pressure hanging over your head. Also, hindsight is always 20/20.