The Flash on CW

[BRC]

I've only seen the second episode, but to me it seems alright. I'd like to join the angry mob when it comes to the Flash's secret identity discovered too soon. When it comes to the Flash from the 1990's, at least Barry is actually trying to guard his secret identity. Only a Star Labs scientist, a Private Investigator (I think), and an old vigilante learned of his secret identity. While there was one episode where everybody sees that Barry is the Flash, it was a time travel episode, so I shouldn't let that bother me too much.

I can just go on and on about how the 1990's Flash series is better compared to the 2014 Flash.

Heck, if these two got into a fight, I'd be betting my money on the Flash from the 1990's series.

In my opinion, the 2014 series is okay, but the 1990 series was the best Flash series ever.

Eh, I don't mind it that much.

"The Hero needs to keep their identity secret" is a tried-and-true source of drama, but it can cause a lot of problems. All characters need to be either "In the Know" or Unaware.

The show is about Barry being The Flash. Just about everything connects with that in some way. With Unaware characters the only real connection is "The Hero must hide their secret identity, and in doing so complicate their life". With Aware characters, the Hero can interact with them honestly, without the big cloud of "Keeping a secret identity" hovering over everything. You can have honest interactions with unaware characters, but they can't connect to the Hero aspects that make up 80% of the show.

Barry gets one major character to hide his identity from (Iris), and a bunch of characters with whom he can openly discuss the hero aspects of the show (AKA what we're here for). If too many characters are unaware of the Hero's identity, then the show can easily split between the Hero stuff, and "non-hero" stuff, which is either based around hiding the secret, OR is unconnected to the reason everybody's watching the show.

[grolim]

They were called Fire and Ice? So much for subtlety. Though if they give both of those characters their powers the CGI budget better go up.

[Pex]

I'm starting to notice that while The Flash is not Tomorrow People shirtless every episode he is injured a lot requiring a scene of him on a bed recovering wearing an open shirt. So far the pattern is roughly every other episode.

Speaking of Tomorrow People . . .

Hello to Robbie Amell. Having his starring vehicle cancelled, Robbie is back doing guest star work. Good for him he is getting acting gigs, but he tries so hard looking for that big break that never comes. He's Ken Olandt of the 1980's all over again. I do appreciate he kept his shirt on. Is it too obvious to think his character wasn't really killed and Robbie will come back in some future episode as a meta-human, possibly with the power of invisibility, insubstantial, or both? Unintended bias, I played a GURPS Supers hero with that combination of powers way back when in college.

[grolim]

I'm starting to notice that while The Flash is not Tomorrow People shirtless every episode he is injured a lot requiring a scene of him on a bed recovering wearing an open shirt. So far the pattern is roughly every other episode.

Speaking of Tomorrow People . . .

Hello to Robbie Amell. Having his starring vehicle cancelled, Robbie is back doing guest star work. Good for him he is getting acting gigs, but he tries so hard looking for that big break that never comes. He's Ken Olandt of the 1980's all over again. I do appreciate he kept his shirt on. Is it too obvious to think his character wasn't really killed and Robbie will come back in some future episode as a meta-human, possibly with the power of invisibility, insubstantial, or both? Unintended bias, I played a GURPS Supers hero with that combination of powers way back when in college.

Well he is supposed to be Ronnie Raymond...who becomes Firestorm in a nuclear accident. SO if they change it to a particle accelerator I think he will be back. Plus with her character's name and that they were called Fire and Ice, she is meant to be Killer Frost.

[Friv]

Well he is supposed to be Ronnie Raymond...who becomes Firestorm in a nuclear accident. SO if they change it to a particle accelerator I think he will be back. Plus with her character's name and that they were called Fire and Ice, she is meant to be Killer Frost.

Well, this is the CW. They're not above using names as references for fakeouts (see Tommy Merlyn, f'rex.) It's very possible that Caitlin won't actually become Killer Frost. But it's also possible that she will.

One of the things I quite like about these series - they're not afraid to stray really far from the traditional canon, but they're also not afraid to make all kinds of little nods to it, either.

[Jayngfet]

Well, this is the CW. They're not above using names as references for fakeouts (see Tommy Merlyn, f'rex.) It's very possible that Caitlin won't actually become Killer Frost. But it's also possible that she will.

One of the things I quite like about these series - they're not afraid to stray really far from the traditional canon, but they're also not afraid to make all kinds of little nods to it, either.

On the flipside, they did a double fakeout, since they're doing the "real" Black Canary(and foreshadowing the other one coming back, because lolRa'z), and Mia is going by her comic book name and taking on her proper role now.

Firestorm is potentially an easy character to do provided he doesn't have an active fire effect all the time. Since he transmutes things into other things all you really have to do is cut your scenes properly and use different props a lot of the time. All you need to do is have Stephen Amell fire some arrows off to stage left and throw teddy bears from stage right in the next shot and people will get the idea, for example.

Besides, since they have Firestorm AND Atom both set up it's obvious that they're pushing things to go in a flashier, more effects driven direction.

[Giggling Ghast]

Captain Cold is surprisingly evil. I always thought Flash's rogues were a somewhat amicable bunch.

[BWR]

A pretty good episode. As always I have to remind myself that comic book logic and drama rule, not sense (if Barry is so fast, why doesn't he just speedblitz CC instead of stopping for a chat and then trying to save people from the freeze ray?), but still enjoyable.

[comicshorse]

Captain Cold is surprisingly evil. I always thought Flash's rogues were a somewhat amicable bunch.

More coldly professional I thought. They don't kill women or children more because it generates too much heat (pun intended) than through any moral code

[Pex]

On cue Flash has his shirt off/open this episode.

Every other episode.

Gotta have the thrill. They learned their lesson not to be as blatant as Tomorrow People, but it's there.

Why am I so obsessed with this?

[Kitten Champion]

Why am I so obsessed with this?

You have me doing it too.

Granted shirtless well-toned men have been a hallmark of CW/WB for ages now.

[Lizard Lord]

I wasn't really interested in this show until I happened to catch the ending of the last episode. If we get

Spoiler

Show

Gorrila Grodd, a hyper intelligent and possibly psychic gorilla, as a recurring villain

I will be very invested in watching it. It would be like a B-movie T.V. show!

[Pex]

I never read the comics. My first exposure to The Flash was The Superfriends cartoon show of the 1970s. It was terrible when it had the kids. It was great any other time. I did like the Wonder Twins series, but my favorite was when they fought the Legion of Doom. That is when I was introduced to Grodd. I had never heard of the villain before. I had no idea for which superhero he was the arch enemy. Grodd made an appearance in the later years of the Justice League of a few years ago. They had him be from an advanced technological country of apes in Africa. It's nice for me to finally learn he's Flash's villain.

[Lizard Lord]

I never read the comics. My first exposure to The Flash was The Superfriends cartoon show of the 1970s. It was terrible when it had the kids. It was great any other time. I did like the Wonder Twins series, but my favorite was when they fought the Legion of Doom. That is when I was introduced to Grodd. I had never heard of the villain before. I had no idea for which superhero he was the arch enemy. Grodd made an appearance in the later years of the Justice League of a few years ago. They had him be from an advanced technological country of apes in Africa. It's nice for me to finally learn he's Flash's villain.

Off topic a bit, I had a similar experience with Solomon Grundy. I had seen him the Justice League cartoons and vaguely recall him in Superfriends. but I didn't know he was a Batman villain until playing some of the Arkham games.

[RabbitHoleLost]

More coldly professional I thought. They don't kill women or children more because it generates too much heat (pun intended) than through any moral code

I'm a big Flash fan, via comics
(which is why I refuse to watch the CW show)

Spoiler

Show

But Flash's Rogues do have a moral code, instilled by Captain Cold, and it's something he's always touted.
No killing (not just women and children, but no killing), no drugs, avoid hurting cops as much as possible.
There've been some conflicts, of course, and Cold had issues with his sister, Lisa/Golden Glider, who was dedicated to killing Barry because she blamed him for her lover/The Top's death, and with issues with the second Mirror Master because of his drug problem, but generally he's kept these rules strict
The Rogues are generally an okay bunch, in terms of criminals
it's why they've always had villains like the Zooms/Reverse Flashes show up - because there's only so much you can do with a group of villains who don't murder

[GAZ]

I wasn't really interested in this show until I happened to catch the ending of the last episode. If we get

Spoiler

Show

Gorrila Grodd, a hyper intelligent and possibly psychic gorilla, as a recurring villain

I will be very invested in watching it. It would be like a B-movie T.V. show!

Spoiler

Show

I would say almost definitely psychic gorilla. Remember Dr. Wells saying that General Eiling was interested in mind control.

[Dienekes]

Off topic a bit, I had a similar experience with Solomon Grundy. I had seen him the Justice League cartoons and vaguely recall him in Superfriends. but I didn't know he was a Batman villain until playing some of the Arkham games.

Well that's because he's an old Green Lantern villain, who now gets passed around DC heroes. He did have a memorable appearance in the Batman comic Long Halloween so it's not unheard of to find him listed as a Bat villain.

[Lizard Lord]

Well that's because he's an old Green Lantern villain, who now gets passed around DC heroes. He did have a memorable appearance in the Batman comic Long Halloween so it's not unheard of to find him listed as a Bat villain.

Huh, so it is pure coincidence that he appeared in the only two Arkham games I have ever played? Weird.

[Jayngfet]

Huh, so it is pure coincidence that he appeared in the only two Arkham games I have ever played? Weird.

Not really, a lot of villains do just kinda get passed around. I believe Vandal Savage began as another GL villain but basically just migrated around. Darksied is mostly associated with Superman among the A-Listers but he's not exactly unique to him.

If a TV Series or animated show wants to claim him they're free to but there's a difference between someone who's mostly freelance and someone who's actually in somebodies rogues gallery.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I think everyone drops in on Gotham, though
There was a point when Captain Cold did business with Harvey/Two Face and heckled the BatFam for a bit

In general, since the DCU is a shared universe amongst all the heroes, it makes sense they share villains
Although it's to a much lesser sense than Marvel, where it seems like no villain belongs to one hero

(Personally, I originally thought Grundy belonged to Wonder Woman)

[Pex]

Flash is injured a lot this episode. Unlike other times he's hurt, he keeps his shirt on while recovering. This is Keeps Shirt On week after all. Next week he'll have it off or open.

We'll see if my prediction is right or wrong.

[huttj509]

Spoiler: On math!

Show

So, my brother's been watching this, I have not. He mentioned some numbers I decided to crunch.

The Flash needs to be going mach 1.1. This requires a 5.3 mile runup.

This winds up being an acceleration of 8.2 m/s^2 (or 18.3 miles per hour per second), and takes about 45 seconds to do.

While this is fast, it's 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. Porche 911 turbo S? 2.6 to 2.9 seconds.

I can see new sports car commercials with the driver at the finish line as the Flash pulls up..."what took you?"

BTW, for comparison, falling in a vacuum (at the earth's surface) is 0-60 in 2.7 seconds.

Spoiler: Math details

Show

x = x0 + v0 * t + 1/2 a * t^2
v = v0 + a * t
x0 = v0 = 0
x = 5.3 Mi
v = Mach 1.1 = 837.33 Mi/Hr

2x = (a*t) * t
v = a*t

2x = v*t -> t = 2x/v (substitute in known values and convert to desired units)
a = v/t

[BWR]

I wonder at what point Barry & co are going to question the morality of locking up peopl in what basically looks like a 10x10 room with no amenities for just about forever. No trial, nothing but a blank isolated cube. And when are the cops going to question where these baddies go. For all they know, these guys just disappear.

[Kitten Champion]

I wonder at what point Barry & co are going to question the morality of locking up peopl in what basically looks like a 10x10 room with no amenities for just about forever. No trial, nothing but a blank isolated cube. And when are the cops going to question where these baddies go. For all they know, these guys just disappear.

It really is a civil rights nightmare going on. I can see them justifying it to themselves in the first case with the gas guy, having killed dozens of people openly and being impossible to secure normally. Tonight's villain however was just a petty thug, one with superpowers obviously and he did some seriously illegal things, but nothing to warrant permanent isolation in Aperture Science's spartan suite.

Oh well, there's science to do, I guess.

[grolim]

Plus the first guy had already been sentenced to die for his previous crimes and was turned into a metahuman at his own execution. So him being locked up, alive is a plus for him.

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think what they are doing, is immoral per se. I mean there are basically two things you can do with most of these guys. Either lock them up within you unescapable jail cell, or kill them. Most of the guys they have encountered have shown themselves to be irresponsible with the powers that they have gotten. The stand in for the police force, The detective, has already brought up the fact that they should let the authorities handle it. He has also said, that they aren't able to do anything about it. Most of the people that have been shown so far could break out of normal prison easily. They also have done things that would be hard to prove in a normal court trial. Also, they are guilty of crimes. They are seen to be doing it, the proof is there. It's not like good ole Berry Allen is just picking out random people and throwing them into a dungeon. They aren't bringing them into a cell and torturing them for giggles. I suppose the argument could be made that they are abducting people and performing medical research without consent. I contend that they are treating this as an outbreak. If they had the Authority, they would be within the rights to hold people and try to find a way to treat what the disease. That is basically what is going on here, Quarantine. There is a threat to the general populace, and the normal authorities aren't equipped to handle it.

This this is a show about a Vigilante. Heck all shows about Vigilantes are by their very nature Unethical and Immoral.

My problem with this whole situation is that they aren't reporting what happen to anyone. There was a huge accident, and all this stuff happen to so many people, but still no one is told about it. The company is trying to clean up it's mess without having to pay the consequences. What you have here, is Erin Brockovich with superpowers.

[BWR]

I don't think what they are doing, is immoral per se. I mean there are basically two things you can do with most of these guys. Either lock them up within you unescapable jail cell, or kill them. Most of the guys they have encountered have shown themselves to be irresponsible with the powers that they have gotten. The stand in for the police force, The detective, has already brought up the fact that they should let the authorities handle it. He has also said, that they aren't able to do anything about it. Most of the people that have been shown so far could break out of normal prison easily. They also have done things that would be hard to prove in a normal court trial. Also, they are guilty of crimes. They are seen to be doing it, the proof is there. It's not like good ole Berry Allen is just picking out random people and throwing them into a dungeon. They aren't bringing them into a cell and torturing them for giggles. I suppose the argument could be made that they are abducting people and performing medical research without consent. I contend that they are treating this as an outbreak. If they had the Authority, they would be within the rights to hold people and try to find a way to treat what the disease. That is basically what is going on here, Quarantine. There is a threat to the general populace, and the normal authorities aren't equipped to handle it.

This this is a show about a Vigilante. Heck all shows about Vigilantes are by their very nature Unethical and Immoral.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. It may be necessary to protect people but locking people away like that is certainly not a good thing.

All shows about vigilantes are most certainly not unethical or immoral by their very nature. I'd say that they are mostly the complete opposite. They may be doing illegal things but they are certainly moral and ethical people. Considering that your average superhero is basically a vigilante spending his/her own time and money and risking his/her own life and limb helping people, I'd say they are very moral people in many respects. You can always argue that they would do better by going through the proper channels, but helping people is rarely immoral. And there are cases of vigilante stories where the law is either grossly incompetant (most superhero stories) or actively evil, in which case being a vigilante is actually the best option for helping people.

[Flickerdart]

Oh well, there's science to do, I guess.

<whitehall>Progress requires experimentation.</whitehall>

[The New Bruceski]

oops, wrong thread.

[Kyberwulf]

If the lesser of two evils is still evil. Then how do you explain running around a city getting into fights, acts of vandalism and breaking and entering. Invasion of privacy, not to mention putting innocent civilians in danger. How is that morally sound?