Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[t209]

Well, once more into the breach now.

Spoiler: BG3 Act 3 spoiler

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Now I am in a conundrum with the finale.
In my first run, I brought Lae’zel, Astarion, and Shadowheart for personal story BUT I am more close to Karlach since I used her a lot.
Basically, “be the squid wizard, let Orpheus be one, and as I finally learned let Karlach be one” (I remember about Wyll and Karlach ending BUT I am playing as a bard and 4 party limit—still in vanilla mode—kinda annoying even if justifiable in game play sense…even if they could do 5 or 6 mode for single player.
Apparently rest of the folks in the Tavern either got splatted by Illithid, being turned into one, or just busy surviving.
That or just being Gale for “special ending”.

[Psyren]

Well, once more into the breach now.

Spoiler: BG3 Act 3 spoiler

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Now I am in a conundrum with the finale.
In my first run, I brought Lae’zel, Astarion, and Shadowheart for personal story BUT I am more close to Karlach since I used her a lot.
Basically, “be the squid wizard, let Orpheus be one, and as I finally learned let Karlach be one” (I remember about Wyll and Karlach ending BUT I am playing as a bard and 4 party limit—still in vanilla mode—kinda annoying even if justifiable in game play sense…even if they could do 5 or 6 mode for single player.
Apparently rest of the folks in the Tavern either got splatted by Illithid, being turned into one, or just busy surviving.
That or just being Gale for “special ending”.

Sorry, what was the conundrum/question? Are you trying to decide between the options in bold?

Personally I ended up going with

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convert Orpheus, convince him to stay alive and help Lae'zel from the shadows

as my canon ending, but I'm also leaning towards your #4.

[t209]

Sorry, what was the conundrum/question? Are you trying to decide between the options in bold?

Personally I ended up going with

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convert Orpheus, convince him to stay alive and help Lae'zel from the shadows

as my canon ending, but I'm also leaning towards your #4.

Yes, mostly the bolded one.

Spoiler: Act 3 spoiler

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since I probably forgot to save until Orpheus, part of me might try Orpheus run or convey my character…or switch out Astarion with Karlach.

[LibraryOgre]

Finally reaching the end of act 2 on my very slow playthrough. And man is this game still frustrating sometimes. So here I am, trying to carefully strategize my way through Moonrise Tower. Laying down area control spells (a wall of fire, black tentacles), and... Jaheira jumps in the middle of both ongoing spells, gets peppered by six arrows and dies immediately. Tried this fight three times now, it keeps happening.

Urgh. Maybe I should just let her die, I spent three hours on this yesterday. From all I've heard, she's only a not-very-good cameo anyway, like all the other returning characters.

It's part of why I'm not a big fan of control spells... Yes, some of these are great, but they're going to hurt me just as much, if not more.

[t209]

I almost forgot one thing…

Spoiler: Act 3 (again)

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Is the epilogue only for companions brought along for finale?
Not sure if patches changed everything.

[Lycunadari]

I almost forgot one thing…

Spoiler: Act 3 (again)

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Is the epilogue only for companions brought along for finale?
Not sure if patches changed everything.

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No, all companions will be present in the epilogue as long as they haven't perma-died before.

[t209]

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No, all companions will be present in the epilogue as long as they haven't perma-died before.

Spoiler: Act 3

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Is it available companions or one your brought to 4 team party?

[diplomancer]

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No, all companions will be present in the epilogue as long as they haven't perma-died before.

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what about those who did not die, but left in disgust of your actions

[Cikomyr2]

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what about those who did not die, but left in disgust of your actions

I so wish Wyll actually came to try to kill us if

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your Durge became the Slayer but denied Bhaal at the end

[Lycunadari]

Spoiler: Act 3

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Is it available companions or one your brought to 4 team party?

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what about those who did not die, but left in disgust of your actions

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You can have all 10 companions at the epilogue party, they don't have to be in your active party during the last fight. If anyone left because of your actions, they are presumably dead or turned into mindflayers (because they aren't protected by the prism) so they won't be at the party.

[Psyren]

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what about those who did not die, but left in disgust of your actions

"Left in disgust" functionally = dead, because

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they left the protection of the artifact, which likely means they got converted by the brain pulse in Act 3 like every other tadpoled thrall.

[Cikomyr2]

"Left in disgust" functionally = dead, because

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they left the protection of the artifact, which likely means they got converted by the brain pulse in Act 3 like every other tadpoled thrall.

I wished there was something done with the companions to whom it happens.

Actually have them show up in Act 3 to screw you over in their plot-critical moment.

[Psyren]

I wished there was something done with the companions to whom it happens.

Actually have them show up in Act 3 to screw you over in their plot-critical moment.

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For all you know, they do - just as one of the rando enemy mindflayers you blaze past in the boss rush on the way to the Brainstem. That's how ceremorphosis is actually supposed to work, after all, it's not like the victims would be wearing nametags.

[Cikomyr2]

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For all you know, they do - just as one of the rando enemy mindflayers you blaze past in the boss rush on the way to the Brainstem. That's how ceremorphosis is actually supposed to work, after all, it's not like the victims would be wearing nametags.

I didnt meant as the endgame when the apocalypse is happening, but during act 3 when their character could act as agents instead of terrors.

Wyll would be at Gortash's side, reunited with his father. Shadowheart would have sold us to the Sharran cult, etc..

Basically fighting our ex companions as characters, more than as mere NPCs. Because True Souls keep most of their personality, its their allegiance that's overriden.

[diplomancer]

"Left in disgust" functionally = dead, because

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they left the protection of the artifact, which likely means they got converted by the brain pulse in Act 3 like every other tadpoled thrall.

True for most of them, but not for Jaheira (nor, I suppose, for Halsin, if you somehow manage to get him in your party in an evil run).

[Anonymouswizard]

Restarted again, I wanted to go back to my Tiefling Paladin run but it turns out that Ancients can't pick the option I want at the end of Astarion's quest without falling. So Devotion it is! Now I just have to spend a couple of levels until I can nab that heavy armour and ignore that -1 to AC!

The real annoyance is being unable to decide what colour skin I should have. Karlach has red, so I don't want to copy, but the oranges look a little weird and I'm not 100% sold on the pink I picked. Maybe I'll switch to purple or blue.

[Psyren]

Restarted again, I wanted to go back to my Tiefling Paladin run but it turns out that Ancients can't pick the option I want at the end of Astarion's quest without falling. So Devotion it is! Now I just have to spend a couple of levels until I can nab that heavy armour and ignore that -1 to AC!

Instead of full-on restarting, why not retrain to Devotion for Astarion's quest and then flip back to Ancients after?

I didnt meant as the endgame when the apocalypse is happening, but during act 3 when their character could act as agents instead of terrors.

Wyll would be at Gortash's side, reunited with his father. Shadowheart would have sold us to the Sharran cult, etc..

Basically fighting our ex companions as characters, more than as mere NPCs. Because True Souls keep most of their personality, its their allegiance that's overriden.

I mean, I guess, but I doubt they'd ever get that far without being in the party. Shadowheart's chances of bringing down Viconia without allies are essentially nil, tadpoled Ulder Ravengard finds his son repulsive etc.

True for most of them, but not for Jaheira (nor, I suppose, for Halsin, if you somehow manage to get him in your party in an evil run).

True for Jaheira but then she'd just be dedicating her time to trying to save Minsc. Or if they leave together, Minsc would run into the same tadpole problem and she'd have her hands full with that, assuming she survived.

I think the only way to get Halsin to leave in disgust is to not cure the Shadow Curse, which he can't do on his own so he'd be as good as dead. I'm not sure if there's a breaking point for him in Act 3, even if you embrace Bhaal.

[Cikomyr2]

I mean, I guess, but I doubt they'd ever get that far without being in the party. Shadowheart's chances of bringing down Viconia without allies are essentially nil, tadpoled Ulder Ravengard finds his son repulsive etc.

Well, the main hurdle of them "getting that far" was the army of the Absolute.

Which they would be part of anyway. I don't see how we cant simply assume they'd have outsped us to Baldur's Gate and "followed their mission".

Astarion could have infiltrated Cazador domain back, faked subservience and started converting other spawns to his cause.

I ***know*** Ravenguard doesnt like Wyll, but thats because he has no Tadpole-induced reason to do so. If both were tadpoled, im sure they would be standing fast to accomplish.. something.

The point would be to turn them as proper Villains. We ***know*** these people, we know they are talented at what they do. Having to face off against them would add one additional layer of story to do with them, instead of "...and we never heard of them again"

[BRC]

hrmmm

assuming Mizora doesn't have some trigger clause she can pull in the contract, Absolutist Wyll probably ends up working for Gortash in some capacity. "Duke Ravenguard's heroic Son, The Blade of Frontiers, was cursed by Fiends, and the Duke cast him out! Welcome back Baldur's Gate's favorite son!"

Absolutist Karlach probably ends up doing what she did in Avernus, being a frontline berserker in the armies of the Absolute. She's probably convinced herself that she's doing it out of thanks for freeing her from Avernus. Heck, maybe she ALSO ends up working for Gortash again, but I feel like it's more likely she's just a frontline trooper in Thorm's army.

Absolutist Shadowheart "Learns to Reject Shar and embrace the love of the Absolute!". Another brainwashed fanatic. Shar probably punishes her with her hand, but Shadowheart either pulls through it, or is discarded as useless. Or the absolutists cut off her hand for her.

Absolutist Lae'Zell. Hrmm, another frontline soldier? Maybe a suicide bomber against the Githyanki.

Absolutist Gale: Probably ends up working at Moonrise for Ketheric, believes he's doing it because Thorm will keep him fed with magic items and knows how to cure his condition. If they can figure out a way to explode the orb on command, well, that's just a potent weapon. In the meantime, They can get their hands on spare magic items and he's a very potent Wizard, those are always valuable.

Absolutist Astarion: Probably follows his current route pretty closely. They send him to infiltrate Cazador's lair, thus removing one potential threat to their schemes. If they know about the army of vamprie spawn, they might try to use him, and the promise of walking in the sun again, to get them all to accept Tadpoles.

[Cikomyr2]

assuming Mizora doesn't have some trigger clause she can pull in the contract, Absolutist Wyll probably ends up working for Gortash in some capacity. "Duke Ravenguard's heroic Son, The Blade of Frontiers, was cursed by Fiends, and the Duke cast him out! Welcome back Baldur's Gate's favorite son!"

Absolutist Karlach probably ends up doing what she did in Avernus, being a frontline berserker in the armies of the Absolute. She's probably convinced herself that she's doing it out of thanks for freeing her from Avernus. Heck, maybe she ALSO ends up working for Gortash again, but I feel like it's more likely she's just a frontline trooper in Thorm's army.

Absolutist Shadowheart "Learns to Reject Shar and embrace the love of the Absolute!". Another brainwashed fanatic. Shar probably punishes her with her hand, but Shadowheart either pulls through it, or is discarded as useless. Or the absolutists cut off her hand for her.

Absolutist Lae'Zell. Hrmm, another frontline soldier? Maybe a suicide bomber against the Githyanki.

Absolutist Gale: Probably ends up working at Moonrise for Ketheric, believes he's doing it because Thorm will keep him fed with magic items and knows how to cure his condition. If they can figure out a way to explode the orb on command, well, that's just a potent weapon. In the meantime, They can get their hands on spare magic items and he's a very potent Wizard, those are always valuable.

Absolutist Astarion: Probably follows his current route pretty closely. They send him to infiltrate Cazador's lair, thus removing one potential threat to their schemes. If they know about the army of vamprie spawn, they might try to use him, and the promise of walking in the sun again, to get them all to accept Tadpoles.

I like the way you are thinking. But i feel all of these should be more indicative and informative of their characters.

I absolutely agree with your Wyll and Astarion ideas.

Shadowheart may have managed to corrupt some of the Sharrans, and thrown Viconia's leadership of the lodge into chaos. Maybe the Absolute actually restored the memory she lost, and she can promise the same to the other cult members.

Karlach.. shouldnt just be a front line soldier. What if she leaves your group, she basically turns all tiefling survivor in Absolute agents within the city? Ensuring a few survive and provide cover for their entry in the city?

Same thing for Lae'zel. I feel if she was converted by the Absolute, she should have corrupted/coopted the Creche and turned them to their side. Or perhaps she could have turned Kith'rak Voss?

Gale.. gale gale gale.. what would the Absolute do with the Magical Nuke? Damn, i have no idea. Maybe try to take over Lorroakan's tower?

Ultimately, it should inform on their character. Provide an opportunity to see how these heroes turning their back on you still had the might and wits to leave their mark on the world. Maybe even allow the voice actor to ham it up.

I just feel the core of the story are the Origins Companions, and the game should fully utilize them.

[Anonymouswizard]

Instead of full-on restarting, why not retrain to Devotion for Astarion's quest and then flip back to Ancients after?

Because Paladin Oaths feel like a bigger part of the roleplay than other subclasses, and I wanted to mess around with skin tones (settled on a light blue instead of any of the Tiefling ones). Also I could just break the oath and then shove like 1000gp in Sir Oathbreaker's face, but I'd rather get through the game without meeting him if possible.

Especially as he doesn't seem to turn up if you give Alfira the old stabby stab.

[Cikomyr2]

I personally dislike the difficulty it is to break an oath, especially with the ease it is to restore it.

And especially as you cant respec as an Oathbreaker.

[Eldonauran]

Especially as he doesn't seem to turn up if you give Alfira the old stabby stab.

Technically, you didn't break your oath there. You were neither conscious nor in control of your body at that point. Its fine to roleplay the guilt and loss such actions caused, but your character is as much a victim of the event as Alfira is.

[InvisibleBison]

your character is as much a victim of the event as Alfira is.

Qualitatively, maybe, but quantitatively I feel Alfira's more a victim than Durge.

[Cikomyr2]

Qualitatively, maybe, but quantitatively I feel Alfira's more a victim than Durge.

Oh snap!

Man, someone needs a lesser restoration spell after that burn 🤣

[Psyren]

Technically, you didn't break your oath there. You were neither conscious nor in control of your body at that point. Its fine to roleplay the guilt and loss such actions caused, but your character is as much a victim of the event as Alfira is.

Agreed (except maybe for the last bit, no point in quantifying the victimhood between the two.)

I personally dislike the difficulty it is to break an oath, especially with the ease it is to restore it.

And especially as you cant respec as an Oathbreaker.

If you don't want to follow a guide to break your oath, the OIO mod will tell you exactly which conversation options will break each oath, as well as noting which ones will break any oath.

While I dislike Oathbreaker in tabletop 5e, they did a really good job of implementing in in BG3 by creating the Oathbreaker character, and in particular giving... it?... unique dialogue with Dark Urge. It was a pretty brilliant choice on Larian's part and makes me want to actually do an Oathbreaker Durge run.

[LibraryOgre]

Oh snap!

Just like Alfira's neck.

***

Every time I multi-class Wyll into a Paladin, though, I wonder why he signed a contract instead of swore an oath.

[BRC]

I like the way you are thinking. But i feel all of these should be more indicative and informative of their characters.

I absolutely agree with your Wyll and Astarion ideas.

Shadowheart may have managed to corrupt some of the Sharrans, and thrown Viconia's leadership of the lodge into chaos. Maybe the Absolute actually restored the memory she lost, and she can promise the same to the other cult members.

Karlach.. shouldnt just be a front line soldier. What if she leaves your group, she basically turns all tiefling survivor in Absolute agents within the city? Ensuring a few survive and provide cover for their entry in the city?

Same thing for Lae'zel. I feel if she was converted by the Absolute, she should have corrupted/coopted the Creche and turned them to their side. Or perhaps she could have turned Kith'rak Voss?

Gale.. gale gale gale.. what would the Absolute do with the Magical Nuke? Damn, i have no idea. Maybe try to take over Lorroakan's tower?

Ultimately, it should inform on their character. Provide an opportunity to see how these heroes turning their back on you still had the might and wits to leave their mark on the world. Maybe even allow the voice actor to ham it up.

I just feel the core of the story are the Origins Companions, and the game should fully utilize them.

Eh, I don't feel like Lae'Zel has either the Charisma or reputation needed to subvert the Creche. Like, I get it from a "Each party member should do something significant" angle, but I feel like the Githyanki are probably the least subvert-able group out there unless you physically capture and tadpole them. They're already a cult of militant fanatics, and the moment they smell G'haik on the Absolutists they'd reject any thought of joining them. As far as I know, Lae'Zel was nothing special by Githyanki terms before her capture. Karlach was a well-known figure in the blood war, but most of Lae'Zel's backstory is just Gith Backstory. I think it's more likely she would help the Absolutists wipe out the Creche and lay an ambush for the PCs there than subvert the Creche.



Meanwhile, Timeline Questions

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Specifically, I'm wondering about the mind flayer colony under Moonrise.

The Emperor was Baldurian, and when he went to Moonrise, he encountered the Mind Flayer Colony, got Wormed, and Asuran managed to pull him out of the Elder Brain's control.

When exactly was that? My impression was that the war over Moonrise was a century or two ago, since Halsin fought in that conflict, and before that point Moonrise towers was the home of the well respected Thorme family which ruled over a prosperous and happy kingdom. But Balduran founded Baldur's Gate, which I always took to be much older than that?


The Emperor describes himself as checking out the ruins of Moonrise seeking treasure, standard adventurer stuff, implying that his visit was AFTER the shadowcurse. Did he found Baldur's gate, then just kind of wander off and keep adventuring for a few centuries until he got himself mindflayered? Was there a Mind Flayer colony under Moonrise towers when Ketheric Thorm first fell to Shar?

[/SPOILER]

[Anonymouswizard]

Just like Alfira's neck.

***

Every time I multi-class Wyll into a Paladin, though, I wonder why he signed a contract instead of swore an oath.

This is actually explained.

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Basically Mizora lured him to a cultist meeting, convinced him to pact in the heat of the moment, and then has been reminding him of at at every turn ever since.

It also turns out that Wyll's player just reused his character from Tyranny of Dragons.

Personally my favourite way to play is as a Paladin who takes Wyll on as their squire. You get a dame with barely controlled bloodlust mentoring Wyll as a knight in the hopes that once he breaks his contract he'll still feel like a fantasy superhero.

Although that's also because I like to go heavy on the warriors.

[BRC]

Question for those who beat the game.

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So I just beat Asuran, clearing up the last sidequest I know about before doing the finale.

I got the Dragonslayer greatsword and I want to play with it. Unfortunetly, I just respecced Karlach to a Monk, and am having fun with that. Lae'Zel has her Silver Sword, and I'm not going to take that away from her.

my Lockadin Tav uses Charisma and pact weapon, so scornergy with the greatsword's explicit "Double your strength bonus"


The most "Flavorful" approach I can think of is to give it to Minsc, The Greatest Hero Of Baldur's Gate. But I could also use it myself and just chug a potion to get a good strength bonus.

I guess my question is around the structure of the finale. Will my entire party get a chance to play, or do I just go through it all with my 4 favorites?