I get why you're upset, but the other side of the coin is that for a lot of people, going out to Gencon requires a much greater investment of time and effort than pre-ordering. For someone who bases his or her decision to go to the con in any part on the availability of OoTS content, it's hard to begrudge someone who's actually willing to go outside, braving sunlight, possibly airports, and even more dire, airline food, their right to purchase slightly before we receive our product by mail.
IMHO, if being a lazy, on-line shopping, pre-ordering fan means I might get product a little later than someone else...well...that's the price of convenience. YMMV...just my opinion.
Not to mention paying for all that just to for the chance to stand in line to buy the book. I'm pretty sure paying the shipping costs on a pre-ordered book is a wee bit cheaper than all the expenses to get to and into the Con. A pre-ordered GenCon ticket for 1 day is something like $35/$40 if I remember correctly from last year. (Just for some added perspective, not to beat a dead horse. )
I am perhaps one of the biggest fans of the comic and have all the paperbacks and most of the Dragon issues which had the comics from this paperback already. I think i started reading at comic 3. So I'm a huge fan. I am not upset about the delay, stuff happens.
What is irking me a bit is that while I preordered to help guage costs and help Rick with effectively maximizing profit with this book, due to geographic inconveniences I'll be waiting for mine in the mail while people who DIDNT take steps and be courteous by preorder will get this book at Gencon before me. I dont think its fair that anyone can walk up to the counter and purchase this will fans who are trying to be supportive get screwed.
The book was supposed to ship in June now a preorder of it is going to be send ahead of time for distribution at Gencon.. huge slap in the face.
So last time I will preorder to help out, its seems your more rewarded NOT to preorder.
If the people at GenCon were actually getting preferential treatment over people who preordered, I might agree with you. However, since people who preordered can pick their copies up at GenCon, they can get them just as soon as people who buy at GenCon. That seems fair to me.
I don't think it's that the people at GenCon don't have to go through a lot of hassle or work to get the book, it's that the preorder people received a promise from ookoodook to get the book months ago, whereas there was no such promise or commitment made to GenCon attendees that part of their ticket costs offered a chance to pick up a copy of the book. So it is a bit annoying seeing that when they have the ability/chance to gt some books out early, they are not going to the people who made the earlier commitments first (they could've done by order of preorders) but rather to GenCon where no such commitment was made. While it makes sense from a business point of view, GenCon is undoubtedly a good place to make sales, and good for selling excess stock and making money. However that is being prioritised over preorders made by people who were supposed to have received it months ago. I personally don't mind waiting a week or so, but that was just for the people who were claiming GenCon people deserve to get it first for buying con tickets, or waiting in line, or travelling. They didn't incur those costs for the express purpose of getting the book. They weren't promised early access to the book when they bought the tickets, and the gencon tickets/costs gives the attendees far more value than the chance to purchase a book. The issue is who promises were made to, and which commitments they are honoring first. And in this case, the original promises and commitments made to the preorder folks are being bypassed in favour of selling them commercially at a major convention. That said, I'm in favour of that. I see that they're still a business, and it makes sense to do it this way, just don't have people claiming that going to Gencon entitles them to the book more than people who preordered it.
You guys are looking at this all wrong. The issue here is that the books got delayed, NOT that Gencon will get them first. The books were -always- going to be at Gencon, it was just expected that they would have shipped the pre-orders by now.
This isn't an issue of genconners getting preferential treatment, this is an issue of printing delays which pushed back the ability to ship the order.
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Sheriff: Please drop the discussion regarding GenCon, which is becoming increasingly hostile and is ultimately pointless. This is a thread for announcement of delivery issues and possibly questions related to that (although direct email to Ookoodook is probably a more fruitful avenue). If you have specific issues, changes, or complaints, take them up privately with Ookoodook. This thread is not here for sniping, flaming, trolling, or legal, commercial, or philosophical debates about what a pre-order means.
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Fedoruman Roland Avatar by Chris the Pontifex
Always on the lookout for alternates for our long-running Rules Cyclopedia/BECMI game Old Ways.
However that is being prioritised over preorders made by people who were supposed to have received it months ago.
This is in no way true. It just isn't. There is no way, shape, or form that the books being at GenCon will be prioritized over getting pre-orders out. If we have the books physically at GenCon, then the pre-orders will already have begun being shipped. The only way that won't be the case is if for some reason the books arrive literally the day before GenCon, which is highly unlikely. If they arrive earlier than that, they will already begin shipping before GenCon. If they arrive later, then they won't be at GenCon either. But there is no action we are taking that puts the books being at GenCon ahead of those that are shipping.
If you're going to blame me for the time that the postal service takes to deliver it which may put delivery after GenCon even if it ships before GenCon, well, there's nothing I can do about that. I don't have magic postal powers. All we can do is ship them the moment we get them.
If you're mad because we're not going to deliberately withhold them from GenCon so that the pre-order people can enjoy their copies for a week before anyone else gets one, then you are probably going to stay mad forever because that's ridiculous. We are not going to shoot ourselves in the foot financially to satisfy a vague sense of privilege that some people who pre-ordered feel they are owed. We are doing the best we can with the hand we've been dealt; we aren't required to fall on our sword to make it up to you.
And as far as customers "never pre-ordering again," by all means, go ahead and do that if this situation bothers you that much. Pre-ordering will always carry a risk of delay, and if that risk is unacceptable to you, then please, don't pre-order. I mean it. You will be making my life easier by not putting yourself in a position where you feel the need to complain later.
However, if it's a short run like this book is, you also can't complain if the book sells out the first day that it's in-stock and you therefore don't get one. The benefit of pre-ordering this book was NOT that you would get it first; it was that you would be guaranteed to get it AT ALL. The pre-orders we've taken will eat up 55% of the total print run, and I expect GenCon to eat up another 15-20%, so anyone who hasn't pre-ordered has a strong chance of getting left out, and we're not reprinting this one. And that was why I asked people to pre-order to help me set print run numbers--not for my benefit, but for theirs. To make sure that everyone who really wanted one got one.
There are always choices in life with no clear winner. You can have guaranteed availability and an uncertain ship date, or you can have a guaranteed ship date and uncertain availability. Pick one based on what is most important to you.
Now, Roland has asked that we let this subtopic die, and I'm going to let it, since I feel that I've answered everything that's been brought up. But I just want to reiterate: There is nothing we are doing that prioritizes GenCon over pre-orders.
I pre-ordered because this was going to be a single print run. There have been some delays but the status updates show that the book is coming soon. When it arrives, I will read it. I am content to allow the process to work as long as the book arrives eventually. I would like the book's quality to not suffer due to people demanding that it be produced faster. If I have any questions, they are going to be sent to the distributor at this point.
Giant, thank you for producing the book and I look forward to seeing it.
Well, I think I'm finally going to break down and buy a copy. Sounds like the ideal time to do it -- no long wait, but plenty of copies still in existence.
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Mr. Burlew, I would like to thank you for producing this book, for devoting so much of your time to the site and comic, and for taking the time to address the problems people have had about the books.
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We should have a betting pool for the day/month it gets shipped out. Winner gets a hint for the MitD.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversaraph
And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
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Last edited by silversaraph : 07-21-2011 at 09:50 AM.
Although I am currently waiting patiently and have every confidence that the books will be arriving soon, it would be pleasant to receive an update from Ookoodook here as well. Even if it is a report that no change has happened, a bit of communication is always appreciated from a business.
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Cruncher of the Kibbles of Wisdom
Although I am currently waiting patiently and have every confidence that the books will be arriving soon, it would be pleasant to receive an update from Ookoodook here as well. Even if it is a report that no change has happened, a bit of communication is always appreciated from a business.
Agreed. It would be nice to know what's going on with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welknair
*Proceeds to google "Bride of the Portable Hole", jokingly wondering if it might exist*
Taken from another thread, all messages posted yesterday (20/7):
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Giant
Reprinting more is generally a bad thing, because it means that I failed to estimate demand properly. In a perfectly efficient system, I would guess the number needed and print exactly that many, whether it's 1000 or 30,000 copies. While it is nice when a book sells a lot more than the initial estimate, there's more wasted money involved on my part, because the cost to print drops as I print more at a time.
So, SOD has less reprints than OTOPCs because I have gotten better at estimating over time, not because it is less popular.
Also, for the record, the number of printings for each book is:
I'd also like to point out to everyone, of course, that now is a perfect time to preorder a copy if you've been on the fence. The book is clearly coming out soon, so you won't have a long wait, and the print run is limited, so it's a good idea to get it now if you're not planning on attending GenCon.
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The latest that I have heard is that it will be finished and leave the printer's location en route to Ookoodook "next week"; I currently have a request to the printer to clarify whether they mean "Mondayish" or "Fridayish" of next week.
Obviously, if its the first, then the book will arrive at Ookoodook around Wednesday and all pre-orders should be out the door before GenCon. If its the latter, it will arrive the following Monday and probably only a portion of the pre-orders will ship before the personnel from Ookoodook need to get on a plane to go to Indianapolis on Tuesday night.
I won't know anything else until the printer gets back to me.
EDIT: OK, they literally just got back to me in my email as I was posting this. The answer is "Wednesday night," which sort of leaves it up in the air. I will need to consult with Kevin from Ook to see what this means in terms of how many products will get out the door.
Well this was preordered for me as an early birthday present but now it will be a slightly late present. But I realize how hard random stuff happening can be so I won't complain about any of this except for the lack of updates on the book's status for a decent period early on as that is the only part you could have changed (without large wads of cash to spare that is ).
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The latest that I have heard is that it will be finished and leave the printer's location en route to Ookoodook "next week"; I currently have a request to the printer to clarify whether they mean "Mondayish" or "Fridayish" of next week.
Obviously, if its the first, then the book will arrive at Ookoodook around Wednesday and all pre-orders should be out the door before GenCon. If its the latter, it will arrive the following Monday and probably only a portion of the pre-orders will ship before the personnel from Ookoodook need to get on a plane to go to Indianapolis on Tuesday night.
I won't know anything else until the printer gets back to me.
EDIT: OK, they literally just got back to me in my email as I was posting this. The answer is "Wednesday night," which sort of leaves it up in the air. I will need to consult with Kevin from Ook to see what this means in terms of how many products will get out the door.
Thank you! Hmm, depending on what happens, I may need to drop a message to the post office late next week. "If a package for me shows up the week after this, don't just leave it at the door like you usually do. I'll be out of the state, and what if it rains or something? I'll pick it up when I come home." Good to know this could be necessary. Thanks again for the information!
We've never had a pre-order this large, so it will be hard to say exactly how long it will take to get all the books out, but I estimate 10 days from the time that we get the book.
I will be at Gen Con starting Wednesday, the 3rd, but the warehouse crew will be working while I'm gone. I just get in the way anyway so things will go faster without me there.
If you're going to Gen Con and you want us to hold your book so that you can pick it up at the convention, let us know! Send an email to ship.manager@ookoodook.com. If we don't hear back before Tuesday, the 2nd, then we will ship your book as usual and you won't be able to pick it up at the convention. We will refund your shipping.
Now on to the games. We paid an outrageous amount to have a few games air-shipped over to sell at Gen Con. If you pre-ordered one of the games, we can give you a copy, but we cannot refund your shipping due to the cost we incurred in getting them here. Same deal - let us know before Tuesday (ship.manager@ookoodook.com), the 2nd or we won't be able to give you the game at the show.
The rest of the games should be here by the end of August. Literally as the games were on the dock the printer got a call that the games had failed product testing because (you'll like this) the game boxes didn't have the APE Games company city and zip code on the outside. I've been doing this for almost 15 years and have NEVER put my zip code on the game box. In fact, I'll bet that most of the games in your closet don't have the manufacturer's address on the box. Anyway, they had to take the whole shipment back and add address stickers before shipping them.
I'm also going to post this on Ookoodook.com and send out another carpet-bomb email.
Thank you! Hmm, depending on what happens, I may need to drop a message to the post office late next week. "If a package for me shows up the week after this, don't just leave it at the door like you usually do. I'll be out of the state, and what if it rains or something? I'll pick it up when I come home." Good to know this could be necessary. Thanks again for the information!
Place a request with the postal service to hold your mail while you are out of town. You can then drop by the post office when you get back and pick up your mail (and the book).
Thank you! Hmm, depending on what happens, I may need to drop a message to the post office late next week. "If a package for me shows up the week after this, don't just leave it at the door like you usually do. I'll be out of the state, and what if it rains or something? I'll pick it up when I come home." Good to know this could be necessary. Thanks again for the information!
As a former USPS employee, I can tell you that you can even request mail to be held for specific dates, up to 30 days in total, onlline. So you don't even need to go to the Post Office -- you can do it from home.
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Cruncher of the Kibbles of Wisdom
So from next Wednesday, it takes 10 days for the books to reach you from the printer and then they're shipped to us? Or are they shipped directly from the printer?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas-Dakota
Succubus gets grongratulatory cookies from me. You have stepped into the realm of puns that only the likes of Death, Your Friend the Reaper have seen.
Now on to the games. We paid an outrageous amount to have a few games air-shipped over to sell at Gen Con. If you pre-ordered one of the games, we can give you a copy, but we cannot refund your shipping due to the cost we incurred in getting them here. Same deal - let us know before Tuesday (ship.manager@ookoodook.com), the 2nd or we won't be able to give you the game at the show.
Are the games available to people who didn't preorder, or is it a reservation thing?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversaraph
And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
Spoiler
Yes, I really quoted myself and put it in my signature. You can't honestly say you never thought something you said was so awesome you wanted to make it into a quote and put it in your signature, can you?
Spoiler
Okay, maybe you can.
Why did I buy Teleporking.com? I have no idea. Am I rich yet?
To clarify further, the books should leave the printer next Wed. They'll be on a truck to the Ookoodook/APE warehouse until Fri or maybe Mon. Then we start shipping in earnest (unless Ernest has anything to say about it).
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Sounds like the ideal time to do it -- no long wait, but plenty of copies still in existence.
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