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2012-08-10, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
FWIW, Olympic/FITA competition archery takes place at ranges up to 90m (300 feet) with a target size of 122cm (4 ft). [British] Clout (Long range) archery takes place at a maximum range of 180 yards, with scoring being based on distance from a flag. It dates back to pre-Elizabethan times (at ranges up to 240 yards) when the long bow was a viable weapon of war, and was inherently designed to train for use against "massed targets" since that what sensible armies did.
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2012-08-10, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Random thoughts, after reading ten pages of thread:
According to Vaarsuvius's theory, Belkar's Favored Enemy is anyone he doesn't lust after.
Treason is a crime, defined by law. The technicalities of whether or not a given act is treason depend on the legal code - which Tarquin wrote.
He does. I don't know what it is, but I'm confident that Tarquin has something else up his sleeve.
If V is within 40 feet of the Holy Word, s/he may not be casting very well at present.
Longbows aren't a D&D concept created for game balance. They are real bows that have real ranges. The range for an actual weapon should be looked up, not made up.
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2012-08-10, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
That doesn't mention anything about favored enemies, actually. (Also, I wouldn't take V's speculations in that strip to be anywhere near accurate, but YMMV.)
Edit: There's an argument that if Belkar cannot differentiate between groups of beings beyond Hate or Lust, he must only have Favored Enemy: Hate; that may be what you're trying to go with? But even V mentions that's only categorizations for the purpose of emotions, not creature type. I'm pretty sure Belkar can tell the difference between a human and a goblin (though he may not care, that's an entirely different issue). Not to mention that it doesn't matter what differentiation Belkar can make; just because you're a blind ranger doesn't mean you get Favored Enemy: Everything I Attack.
If V is within 40 feet of the Holy Word, s/he may not be casting very well at present.
Longbows aren't a D&D concept created for game balance. They are real bows that have real ranges. The range for an actual weapon should be looked up, not made up.Spoiler
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2012-08-10, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-10, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Why do people keep bringing this up? Holy Word's rules text is very explicit about ignoring line of sight and effecting people regardless of whether they are even aware of it happening.
Because, clearly, when making a game your concern should be if everything is historically precise and accurate, not whether the game is fun.Last edited by FujinAkari; 2012-08-10 at 07:28 PM.
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English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-08-10, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-10, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
And Durkon is also affected by the smoke, so his visibility is low.
I think that Kilkil was blown off-panel for a reason, or punchline, which has yet to be revealed.
Maybe he's dead, but more likely paralyzed and lying in a corner. Banished is a remote possibility.
But at least we now know Kilkil probably isn't some powerhouse in disguise.Last edited by Smolder; 2012-08-10 at 07:40 PM.
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2012-08-10, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Why would they duel? Qarr can become invisible, and can hide from V if he really wants, or if Malack bullies him into doing so. V and Malack have no problems with each other personally, and V isn't thinking clearly enough to be suspicious of Malack's presence. Malack, meanwhile, might want to use V to peg Nale while maintaining plausible deniablity for Tarquin as to his involvement.
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2012-08-10, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
I was meaning in reference to identifying Tarquin based on his speech, rather than seeing Kilkil. I agree that he probably didn't see/hear the kobold well enough to identify him.
As someone else pointed out earlier...
Originally Posted by SRD
Originally Posted by SRDLine of effect may or may not be needed, I honestly don't know that off the top of my head(Thanks Debatra!) Line of effect is needed, (and note I said line of effect, not sight), and hearing the word is also required to be killed/paralyzed/deafened/blinded.
So you're right, it is quite explicit about targets needing to hear it in order to be affected in any way apart from being banished to their home plane.
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2012-08-10, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by SRDOriginally Posted by SRDKaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
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2012-08-10, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Are demons immortal in D&D? If so then could Sabine expects to see Nale in the afterlife or plan on making him immortal? Forever seems an odd word to choose for a being who has watched generation after generation of people be born, grow old and die.
Of course, I am probably reading too much into it, but that's what happens when you get a story in little bits at a time.
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2012-08-10, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
There's a LG afterlife where souls seem to exist eternally...or at least until they reach "true perfect enlightenment", whatever that means. The souls of the Dark One's army seem to be eternally sustained as well in their afterlife. It seems to me that, in the OOTS-verse, a mortal's soul lives eternally in whatever afterlife they end up in.
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-08-10 at 09:24 PM.
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2012-08-10, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
That I figured. What makes me curious is if Sabine can still be with Nale in whatever afterlife he ends up in, I wasn't really thinking in terms of Nale leaving his afterlife is be with her.
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2012-08-10, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Now, I've never played a game of DnD in my life. However, I think I'm right when I say just like Celia, Sabine is an outsider. And we have confirmation from Celia here that outsiders can't be raised from the dead. And the srd20 website says it takes a spell like miracle or wish or something to bring an outsider back.
So if demons are outsiders, which I think they are, then they are not immortal as they can be killed. They don't grow old and die, however. If Nale is Chaotic Evil and goes to that afterlife, then Sabine should be able to be with him there forever, assuming she isn't killed... and assuming Nale's soul isn't taken by Malack.Last edited by RustyVenture; 2012-08-10 at 10:22 PM.
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2012-08-10, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Do they age or die of natural causes? No.
Can they be killed? Ambiguous (see panel 11).Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-08-10, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Hmm, I'm starting to think that after tattling on Sabine, Qarr was given an order to eventually pit Nale against Sabine because she knows too much and her loyalty is questionable. It'd be fitting, too: She was sent to tap out his evil potential, and in doing so she made him Evil enough to kill the one person closest to him.
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2012-08-10, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Actually, your guess about my line of reasoning turns out to be completely inaccurate.
In fact, I do not believe that fun requires ignorance of facts. I can actually have fun in a game which is well-informed and accurate. In fact, I have had fun playing D&D under rules that gave long ranges to longbows. Lots of people have enjoyed playing D&D under the current rules.
So your accusation that I believe game design should not be concerned with fun is simply untrue.
Wouldn't it have made more sense for you to ask for my motives, instead of making up a guess that is easy to disprove?
If somebody wrote a game in which swords were used to wash dishes, longbows were used to clean floors, and dishcloths were weapons with 500 foot range, most people would consider that bad design, and would have less fun trying to understand the absurd rules.
Nobody with any knowledge of dishcloths believes that they are weapons with a 500 foot range, and nobody with any knowledge of longbows believes that they have a short range.
But I won't guess about your motives. Would you please explain why you believe that rules for long-range weapons indicate that the designers had no concern for "whether the game is fun"?
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2012-08-10, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?
So Nale is completely deafened, and as Belkar confirmed, all they hear is "silence." So there's no way Nale could have heard Sabine if she audibly said "I love you" and "forever." However, the srd20 states that succubi have telepathy, so is it possible that Nale heard those last two things from Sabine? The text isn't in speech bubbles, but Sabine's mouth is open and the words are similar in design to the mummies' speech in the previous strips. I was wondering how others interpreted that?
I just can't shake the feeling that this may be the last time they ever see each other, given Malack desire for Nale's soul.
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2012-08-11, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-11, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Absolutely beautiful.
And what's better, they found a way that deafening the little psychopath worked to everyone's advantage.
Belarus can kill Nale in a magic less fight, right?
Edit: will Tarquin kill Belkar to protect Nale?
(personally I was hoping for an Elan vs Nale death match, where T had to intervene to save one at the cost of the other, but this would be cool, tooLast edited by kickassfrog; 2012-08-11 at 12:44 AM.
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2012-08-11, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
"Unless they're strong enough to resist, like I am"
Seems unaffected, too
Unless, like Z, kilkil is custom build to be particularly good at dealing with one class. Say, dual wielding murderous halfling barbarian rangers.
Doubtful, since his primary job probably gives a bad tax return or something as his most challenging problem, but you could see the irony.Last edited by kickassfrog; 2012-08-13 at 12:07 PM.
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2012-08-11, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?
As one of the three permanent members of the Linear Guild, Sabine is an important villain, so I don't think its close enough to the end of the strip to kill her off. I think this will result in a sit-down with her higher ups, or Quarr's.
"Be brave Tula and one day you too will be free!"
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2012-08-11, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-11, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Did Nale hear Sabine say she loves him forever?
I don't think the question here is "will Sabine die?" Since she is A. already out of the battle without being killed, and B. involved in the still unexplored IIFC plot.
But Nale on the other hand is looking like he's in pretty poor shape, getting wrecked by Belkar and all. If one of them goes down, it would still be the last time they saw each other.
Anyway, as for the OP, I don't think we'll have a real chance to find out. Like I said before, I think Nale's going to die in the near future, and I doubt it would be brought up over that time. As always, only time will tell.Last edited by Chessgeek; 2012-08-11 at 01:06 AM.
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2012-08-11, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
What does your humble opinion say about Belkar being level 16?
(Twelfth level was a barbarian level; Belkar has had the experience point penalty--which is 20%, not 10%--ever since then.)
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2012-08-11, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Nope, because you are putting words in my mouth, and I have no desire to fill in the blanks for a strawman argument you are attempting to refute.
My statement is and continues to be that the chief concern of game designers should be to make a balanced and fun game, not a historically accurate one. If the two are both possible, great. If not, I can tell you exactly how much sleep I will lose over the loss of the latter.Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-08-11, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-08-11, 02:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-08-11, 02:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #860 - The Discussion Thread
Besides, a bow's maximum range in a hallway is much less than in an open battlefield... a longbow (and every other missile weapon) shoots parabolically, and its maximum-distance shot would look like a taller (thirty-to-forty-five-degree perhaps) arc.
But in the stickverse, they go like laser-pointers. Fine with me.