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2010-12-05, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-05, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Excellent handbook! One comment from your recent updates...I feel like you are overselling Action before Thought. Warblades get precious few maneuvers known or readied and with their Battle Reflexes, Warblades tend to have "acceptable" Reflex under all but the lowest of point buys (elite array, for example). In addition, most reflex saves aren't the "save or lose" that fortitude and will saves can be. Eating a Fireball is bad, certainly, but eating a Suggestion or Confusion or Finger of Death is so, so much worse.
What it comes down to is that I feel it should just be Good instead of Great; like Disarming Strike or Tactical Strike, it's a solid choice that comes up short in comparison to the rest of a Warblade's arsenal unless you're in a campaign with a ton of reflex-save attacks being tossed around and/or you are cross-classed to have Evasion and/or you have a low stat array and couldn't afford 12s or 14s on Int and Dex. Or at least a mention that if a player has to "pick" between these maneuvers and the other 2nd (and 1st, and 3rd) level options, Action before Thought places way behind.
Of course, that's all just personal opinion after one campaign with a Warblade, so take it with a grain of salt. Fantastic work, can't wait for the restHomebrew!
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2010-12-05, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I felt the same way myself, actually, and since someone else agrees I think I will change it.
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-05, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Thanks for posting this! I just picked up ToB for the first time and had no idea where to go. I saw that the warblade was the closest comparison to a fighter, and decided to run with it, but didn't know much of where to go. this helps greatly! thanks!
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2010-12-05, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Very glad you find it useful.
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-05, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
You may also wish to give a nod to the 'bardblade', which is a surprisingly effective commander.
Basically, you go with Bard4 then Warblade the rest of the way. This lets you pick up 2nd level maneuvers and stances with your first level of Warblade. More importantly, you work on focusing on improving your Inspire Courage, possibly with Dragonfire Inspiration thrown in. This synergies awesomely when you use White Raven Song so Bard and Warblade levels stack for Inspire Courage, and gives you yet another thing you do for the whole group as a White Raven commander-type build. And it effectively doesn't cost you anything to do, when it comes right down to it. Certainly not anything worth something like a +10 on attack and damage and +10d6 sonic damage on every hit.
Also, there are three discipline-based tactical feats worth taking, for various reasons:
1) Clarion Commander. If you have any Rogues in the party, they will love you. With a flat DC20 Intimidate check, you turn on their sneak attacks with no further requirements. Pile On also has it's uses, since you get your attack back anyways.
2) Shards of Granite. Take a -5 on attacks. This gives you 10 temp hit points from Stone Power, so you are ignoring the first 10 damage every round, before any other considerations, since it is refreshed every round. Now you ignore all DR or Hardness. Yea, that DR 15/Magic *AND* Bludgeoning that Litches have? No problem. DR Cold Iron *AND* Good that high-end evil outsiders have? Not a problem anymore. DR 15/EPIC that the Tarrasque has? Completely ignored. For any TWF-based build, this is practically a prerequisite.
3) Stormguard Warrior. This one takes the form of a one-two punch, and is best used against opponents with a lot of AC and a lot of hit points. Basically, your first turn, you use it to get a bunch of damage bonuses on every attack on the following turn. Then you combo with something like Karmic Strike so that every swing he hits you with also provokes an Attack of Opportunity, which you graciously decline in favor of even more attack and damage bonuses the following round. Then you unleash the storm, with +WTFBBQ to attack, and +ZOMGWTFBBQ to damage (You can easily rack up +100 or more damage per hit from this combo, with at least a +20 to attack, if you do it right and he is stupid enough to full-attack you). Obviously, it's a lot simpler to dispatch him in the first round. However, if you are waiting for the round of debuffs to land on him first, it's a great way to make sure he never gets to round 3.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
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2010-12-06, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Thanks for the input; I'll definitely put the bardblade in the multiclassing section. Do you want to provide a more detailed outline I can attribute to you?
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-06, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Bard: Bards and Warblades go together like healbots and beatsticks. There's a feat that even makes this easier: White Raven Song. It lets your Bard levels and your Warblade levels stack for determining your level of Inspire Courage. There's been a lot of thought on how to maximize Inspire Courage, I suggest you look into it. While you are at it, look up Dragonfire Inspiration.
What you loose: Two initiator levels, 1 BAB, 2 maneuvers known, 1 maneuver readied, and Stance Mastery with a traditional 4Bard/16Warblade build
What you gain: Inspire Courage to give Morale bonuses to everyone's attack and damage, and because it is a Morale bonus, it should stack with just about everything else (other than another morale bonus, of course). Possible Dragonfire Inspiration to give a handful of d6's to everyone's damage rolls. Mind you, this includes yourself. Suddenly, you will find yourself being able to hit a lot more often, and doing a lot more damage per hit as well. And so does your allies. With Lingering Song, you can get both of them going simultaneously long enough to end the fight.
If you are considering being the 'party leader' who wants to help and support the party as a whole in a meaningful way, and already considering White Raven to do so, then this is definitely a very viable option for you.
While we're at it, let's get the Barbarian out of the way as well...
Barbarian: Unfortunately, it doesn't give you much you don't have already. Full BAB? Got it. D12 HD? Got that too. Hulk smash? No problem for ya. DR? You have Stone Dragon for that. Rage? Maneuvers are a much more effective way of increasing damage output.
In fact, there's only one real thing you can get from it. A single-level dip with the Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion lets you trade out the 10' speed bonus for Pounce. That means you don't need to wait to get Pouncing Strike, and can use it more frequently. Of course, since you've already got it, you may as well pick up Intimidating Rage and the skill trick Never Outnumbered for some battlefield control to go with your pounce. Other than that? Give this a pass.Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-12-06 at 01:23 AM.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-12-06, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Claw at the Moon is awesome for characters who multiclass into Warblade at later levels. A Jump check that will beat AC is not hard to get for most characters. Hunter's Sense is often the most useful Level 1 stance for such a multiclasser, and to take it, first you have to take Wolf Fang Strike, Claw at the Moon, or Rabid Wolf Strike. Some characters never TWF and aren't particularly reckless, but have ranks in Jump, so CatM is their best option. YMMV though.
Leading the Charge is pretty decent even if the Warblade is the only charger in his party. It's a scaling flat bonus to charge damage, and since it's a stance, you can combine it with other maneuvers that involve charging -- or, if you want to be really nasty, combine it with Pounce. I'd say it should be at least Black rather than red.
Bolstering Voice -- I love the flavor of this stance, and at low levels it's indeed as awesome as you say. But since it's a morale bonus, it quickly loses its impact if your party has any buff-focused character, such as a Bard or Cleric.
Eh, Whirling Frenzy is still pretty nice. Not worth it by itself, still, no. But if you're dipping for Pounce, I'd suggest taking Whirling Frenzy instead of Rage + Intimidating Rage.
A second Barbarian level is also pretty viable, since it doesn't lose you any Initiator levels, if you use some other ACFs. (In particular, the Wolf Totem gives you Improved Trip instead of a redundant Uncanny Dodge. Of course, you have to ask your DM if he'll allow you to take Lion Spirit Totem from CChamp and Wolf Totem from UA.)Last edited by Draz74; 2010-12-06 at 01:42 AM.
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2010-12-07, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Thanks both of you. Right now I've just done two separate halves of the barbarian section, one from Draz and the other from Shneekey, but I'll make it more coherent ASAP.
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-07, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I'd add that 2 levels in a full BAB class are always worth considering since they will allow you to get a 3rd level stance at warblade 4.
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You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
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2010-12-07, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
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2010-12-07, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
If you have access, Strongarm Ranger 2 might be the ideal dip, for skill points and Power Attack.
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2010-12-07, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
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2010-12-07, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2010-12-07, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
If we're talking Gestalt, a fun, simple, decent build is just Diamond Mind Warblade 20//Psion 20. There is little you won't be able to do, you'll be a full caster with the HP of a tank, and with a couple of feats (Instant Clarity and maybe Psychic Renewal) you can give a real, consistent beatdown on everything you can see.
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2010-12-07, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-08, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
You can call me Draz.
Trophies:
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Also of note:
- Winning Entry of Gestalt Build Challenge IV
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- Judge of Iron Chef XXIII (Divine Champion)
I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2010-12-08, 12:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Why not, Draz?
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-08, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-12-08, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
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2010-12-08, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
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2010-12-08, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
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2010-12-08, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
So you'd rather all melee characters took a level dip into cloister cleric/used UMD to pretend to be a monk/minmaxed a skill check than take a level dip as a barbarian? I understand those options are generally more powerful than pounce, but doesn't it generally mesh with the character concept better?
Last edited by Boci; 2010-12-08 at 03:41 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-12-08, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Actually, I think maximized Tumble fits a Warblade a lot better than wild fighting. Specially when you consider you can't use strikes in a charge.
Really, you don't even need pounce, you can gain free movement from cheap items. Anklets of Translocation, Bloodspike Tempo, Quicksilver Boots, Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker; that's just the tip of the iceberg, really. The most expensive of the bunch costs 3200gp only.
I'm not a fan of lots of dips and we should realize not all DMs like the view that classes are metagame concepts. Specially with a Barbarian that worships a specific animal totem, this can get ugly. "Oh, so your urban swashbucklign Warblade suddenly acquired an spiritual connection to the Lion totem? Care to explain how?" Unless you shout 'just refluff it!' at your DMs face and he accepts, I'm guessing that won't fly. Buying a pair of magical boots and/or maximizing Tumble? Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
...and Warblades don't even need free movement as much as other melee classes anyway.
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2010-12-08, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Minmaxing a class skill shouldn't be that bad, really. Plus, Rage doesn't mesh terribly well with Diamond Mind, given you can't make any Concentration checks while raging, which disables a good many of that discipline's maneuvers. As shinken's pointed out, not every Warblade needs to embrace their inner beast, plus, how are you gonna get to Dual Stance otherwise without locking in a bunch of your feat slots to go MoN?
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2010-12-08, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Counter argument DC: 40 check.
Please, be polite. I don't claim your a foaming mouth zealot who believes it is their life's goal to defend WotC's fluff from the unworthy heavans, so I'd take it kindly if you just you made your point by saying "not all DMs permit refluffing" rather than implying that anyone who does so isn't going to bother trying proprerly and will just be rude about it.
Counter argument: DC 40 check.
To a reliable get a DC 40 check?
There are alternatives.Last edited by Boci; 2010-12-08 at 04:24 PM.
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2010-12-08, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
In the campaign I run, one of the players is a single class Warblade and he uses a Glaive to great effect. The ability to deliver Strikes at reach range seriously destroys his enemies.
Just because I abuse the system doesn't mean I cannot use role play to justify my atrocities.
+5 Banishing Warhammer = Banhammer
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2010-12-08, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
How is that even a counter argument? Yes, it's somewhat hard to do. Imight have to spend resource on it. What's the problem with that?
That's not what I said, that's not what I meant and I take offense at you suggesting so. I just said 'not anyone will accept refluffing'.
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2010-12-08, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Level 10, 13 ranks, dex mod 5, synergy 2, +10 from magical items, total modifiers +30, no ACP, I can suceed 50% of the time. Before that the chances are even less.
No, you said "Unless you shout 'just refluff it!' at your DMs face" which has different implications."It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself