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Thread: Avengers: Infinity War
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2018-05-01, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
So the opening weekend destroyed other opening weekend box office records (can't link to box office mojo here at work). It's worldwide gross this weekend looks like it was only a few million short of the entire box office gross for Justice League, which is pretty funny. From what I can see its the first film to break $250 million in it's opening weekend too. I guess that's not unexpected for this movie that the whole MCU has been hyping up for the last 10 years or so.
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2018-05-01, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Even if that specific method is literally the only possible way, ever, to make/repair one, you're talking about (a) a dude who can control reality and time, and (b) decades/centuries to devote to the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8cLast edited by Psyren; 2018-05-01 at 10:29 AM.
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2018-05-01, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Why does everyone assumes the Infinity Gauntlet can resolve Entropy/Resource Finity in the universe?
The movie clearly shown that it had limits to its powers
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2018-05-01, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
This movie really is shaping up to be the anti Last Jedi. I am seeing reviews start to shift downwards in a mixed reception in comparison to the audience scores in a way mirroring last Jedi.
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2018-05-01, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
It's because the audience that saw it on release, were probably going to like it anyway. That's generally why pre-sales, and opening weekend reviews are generally always positive. Why see it opening weekend, if you probably don't want to see it?
Contrast to the middle of the next week, where people are like 'Eh, I'll see it soon.' because they're not emotionally invested enough to see it the day it comes out.
So of course people who see it on opening night, or through Advanced Screenings are going to love it.
People who don't love the movie before it's even come out, or people who saw the trailer and went 'Yeah, looks alright...' are going to have mixed feeling about it.
'Anti-Last Jedi' would actually mean that opening reviews were weak, and audiences who saw it later, loved it.
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2018-05-01, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-05-01, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
This is not Avengers 3: Infinity War it is instead Avengers 3: Perception War!
Spoiler: Especially since, Spoilers for Avengers 3
Especially since only one person saw the possible futures in this movie, he did not tell anybody the plan, and now the person who knows the plan is dead, literally dust in the wind.
So not an infinity war, no ...
Actuallizing the previous person who Actually. Maybe we should not get into a language specificity, accuracy, and precision contest
There are multiple definitions of anti, the reverse definition of anti instead of other definitions ...(such as contrasting to, opposing to, hostile to, etc) is actually a more recent definition, reverse is a merely a new meaning of the anti prefix and does not negate the old meaning prefixes.
Oh please tell me Thanos is going to use a snap of his fingers to end grammar and vocabulary warsLast edited by Ramza00; 2018-05-01 at 02:13 PM.
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2018-05-01, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-05-01, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-05-01, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Spoiler: Thoughts, mostly from beginning of movie...I saw it this weekend. So... I agree with the sentiment others have mentioned that Thanos' plan is overly simplistic in its explanation. It doesn't really seem to make sense on its face. Thanos has no way to discriminate, from what we can tell, how this calculus works. It just annihilates half of the universe's population. I think we can all agree that this is hardly a precise and fool-proof method to achieve his goals. I wanted very much to buy into the idea that Thanos really believes in his plan and truly wants to bring about harmony and stability to the universe. But it is sort of silly to see him sitting down watching the sunrise, a scene that is supposed to convey that he has accomplished his goal, when all he did was kill trillions of people.
This hardly guarantees the type of paradise and harmony that he seems to want for everyone.
I would have much preferred if Thanos ruled the universe or galaxy or whatever with an iron fist. Like a true tyrant. One with the power of the Infinity Stones. With that power, he could bring about whatever universe he wanted. Killing half the universe is just purely arbitrary and doesn't really make sense with what he wants. He could conquer immediately and have everyone bowing down to him and pledging fealty to avoid being annihilated. He could actually create a true universal utopia, except it's authoritarian and tyrannical and not free. Everyone plays along because of fear. And the Avengers and everyone else would oppose him and overthrow him because it wouldn't be free.
But the "if I kill half of all populations, everything will be wonderful" is silly and doesn't seem to be justified ever in the movies. I mean... I know he mentions Gamora"s planet but it doesn't really track. I mean... there was a time when her planet wasn't overpopulated. Killing half the people doesn't remove the factors that led down that path. It just sort of resets it. How does that do anything? Ok, so in the two decades since he took Gamora in, they're not experiencing resource strain because half of their population got murdered. Are we supposed to assume that they will simply never overpopulate again? Why?
Apart from that, there was a little redundancy between Gamora asking Quill to kill her so that Thanos can't get the Soul Stone, and Vision asking Wanda to kill him so that Thanos can't get the Mind Stone, and a little differently in Dr. Strange assuring Tony that he will let both Tony and Spider-Man die to keep Thanos from getting the Time Stone. All of these conversations make sense, but seeing them back to back to back makes it lose some of its impact, which was probably bound to happen in a movie with this many characters.
Tony's new suit is awesome. Peter's new suit is awesome. I was super excited when Cap and Co showed up to save Vision and Wanda, though I did feel the two strongest characters on the Avengers were suspiciously underpowered against Thanos' thugs. So that was kind of a weird fight to watch. As excited as I was to see Cap, it was weird that the three humans with no powers just saved Wanda and Vision from a duo of super-powered aliens. But I'm still glad that it happened .
Speaking of underpowered overpowered characters, I'm not sure what the purpose of shackling the Hulk was. Is it because he's pretty one-dimensional and too strong in what he does? I think I see the story-reasons; he's scared? But what was the meta reason? Similarly, Strange was toned down quite a bit. This however makes sense because he saw the future. Still, the pathway forward should have involved a little more uber magic being slung around, for meta reasons. Come on, we want to see the Sorcerer Supreme in action!
I can't comment on the movie in total because, full disclosure, I actually fell asleep during the huge end battle in Wakanda. I woke up to Wanda destroying the Mind Stone and I was like "Oh damn, that sucks". Then Thanos shows up and reverses time. Then Thor impales him with the axe and Thanos snaps his fingers. When Bucky showed up and vanished I was like "Hmm... I missed something important", but then I realized it was the snap of the fingers and Thanos had enacted his plan. But I did miss the whole fight and some other bits (the conversation before he threw Gamora over the cliff, and the relighting the forge scene). So I've got to watch it again to really get my proper thoughts on it. (I was exhausted this weekend and tried hard to stay awake but I just couldn't muster it!)Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
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2018-05-01, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Spoiler: Thanos's PlanYou have to remember that the core of Thanos's motivation is his own experiences on Titan. Overpopulation and dwindling resources were choking his people to the point that, not long after dismissing Thanos's 50% genocide plan, the entire planet died and what was left was a planet of dust. The fact that they didn't listen to him, and he didn't force his point, is referenced by him as his greatest regret. He could have saved his people, if he'd tried. 50% would die, yes, but fairly. Random chance. No preferences, no bias. And in the end the world would carry on with a lower burden on it.
Thanos doesn't want to rule. He doesn't even want to kill. He isn't even trying to impress Death Incarnate in this movie. All he wants to do is hit the snooze button on the doomsday clock that marks the ultimate, inevitable decline of every sapient race on every planet, even if just this once. Maybe the blessed reprieve it grants them, the brief moment of prosperity, will show the planets the wisdom he learned the hard way and resolve to find a solution of their own for next time. He can hope. But this time it fell upon him, this was his chance to redeem himself for failing to save his own home by saving the galaxy...
Not saying I agree with his argument, but I totally understand it as a Big Picture solution. Hell, it's even heroic if you remove that pesky morality aspect of it. Overpopulation and dwindling resources are inevitable fates to any society that mirrors ours and, faced with the outcome of that fate once already, he dedicated what was left of his life to keeping it from happening anywhere else. If anything, he's like Tony Stark in Age of Ultron: so dedicated to fixing his mistakes that he's blind to the fact that he's making a bigger one.
Spoiler: My Opinion on the Movie. Short version: the best of the Marvel movies to date.Funny, dramatic, and shocking all at (mostly) the proper times. The comedy didn't shoot itself in the foot the way it frequently did in Ragnarok and Black Panther, wrecking the pacing of otherwise epic moments. Characters were mostly on point, and those points where they seemed out of character were still in keeping with their spirits (I, for example, wholly agree that Starlord's flipping out at Gamora's death was entirely reasonable for an emotionally stunted man-child with severe issues with relationships and intimacy. Giving him someone he cares about and then taking it away from him is the surest way to break him.)
Breaking the massive cast up into bite-sized subgroups was inspired. Groupings were mixed up from their standard arrangements to showcase new interactions and some much needed comedy. Strange teaming up with Stark and Parker in particular was fun, as Stark and Strange have massive egos and all three of them are devastatingly clever each in their own way. Having Hulk lose a fight for once and spend the rest of the movie hiding like a frightened child helped remove a gamebreaker element from the plot and continue to evolve the character.
The "dust deaths" were pretty well done. With the exception of Parker, none of the others really had time to understand what was happening before they went, and watching this terrified teenager beg for his life was heartbreaking. Ending it with Fury going out like a proper Samuel L Jackson was also fun. I strongly suspect that most of the surviving characters will not survive the next movie - those who are left tend to be veterans nearing the end of their actors' contracts. So the next movie will likely have them making numerous sacrifices, with only a few surviving to see the others restored, handing off the torch to a new generation. The movie's actual ending was also pretty solid just for how curtly it stops. No heroes regrouping, no turning points, just the Mad Titan watching the sunset in the peaceful confidence that he did an unpleasant job that was for the greater good. The movie ends with the flat thud it needed.
The one part I didn't like was the Wakanda battle. It was too big, took too long, and the Shaky Cam slider was set too high. The thresher wheels in particular were superfluous - just go from the horde to the elites to Thanos. And did I mention the Shaky Cam? I couldn't make out half the action against the horde because of it, which made it unique in the movie and just plain unpleasant.
Also worth mentioning: I'd always thought they should do a Marvel-Star Wars crossover, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Snoke comes off as a badass in this movie and it's satisfying that Stark and Parker are the ones to beat him this time.Spoiler: My inventory:
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Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2018-05-01, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Am I the only one who wants Avengers 4 to be a Blues Brothers' sequel? Note when I say sequel I also want Carol Danvers / Captain Marvel to be in it.
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2018-05-01, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
It's a fun movie as viewed as such. I agree with others, that you don't necessarily want to give Thanos's plan too much thought.
Spoiler: Numbers, and mild spoilersHeck, noting the emphasis I added above, it's going to end up being a lot more than 50%. If he's putting no thought into it other than random chance (not counting specific promises he may or may not have made), then 50% die instantly. How many die in the immediate aftermath? How many die in the next year?
Look at earth. There's an average on 700,000 people in the air at ANY given moment (as of 2013). So half of them died instantly. But the pilots of half those flights presumably also died, so actually it's more like 525,000 died just from being in a plane that crashed (this ignores anyone killed by the plane crashing into them).
Based on NHTSA data there are an average of 5,808,272 car accidents/year in the USA, or 15913 per day. It averages 101 deaths per day. Those are not good numbers normally, And half the people driving cars just vanished (not to mention buses) ....
There are already places where food and medicine is scarce. But half the doctors, farmers, fishers, etc. just vanished....
And all that is before the mental breakdowns caused by such a traumatic event starts taking a toll....
It would surprise me if you don't get another 10-15% out of this, and 25% in the long-term isn't out of the realm of possibility."That's a horrible idea! What time?"
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2018-05-01, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Spoiler: Banner's roleTo give Ruffalo more screen time and act as an exposition device. Between the already crowded film and the fact he spent most of Ragnorok as the Hulk, shelving his alter ego lets him get a bit of real face time. Second and more narratively, Banner being gone since Age Of Ultron makes him a solid outsider to reintroduce characters and events to. Every time Banner enters a new scene, there's two or three lines where someone updates him on the status quo. It's a quick shorthand for the substantial part of the audience that might have watched some, but not all, of the preceding films.
This balancing act is also why Strange, Panther, and the other more recent characters get shorter shrift. They've had recent films, so that's another reason to give more time to the old guard that probably will be retiring after Avengers 4.
Am I the only one who sat up when Nidavellir appears on screen and thought, huh, I didn't know Cybertron was gonna be in this film? Because minus the rings, it honestly looks more like the Transformers' homeworld than the Bay movies.Last edited by Legato Endless; 2018-05-01 at 04:08 PM.
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2018-05-01, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
I know everyone's excited for Captain Marvel, but wasn't the end of GotG2, Adam Warlock?
Considering that only Strange knows the plan...
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2018-05-01, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
That's a good point about having someone to explain stuff to throughout the movie Legato.
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2018-05-01, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Ya know, the point of these movies being centered around kid emotional core makes a lot more sense when you consider what i feel is Civil War's strongest line:
"I dont care. He killed my mom"
Thats a kid's motivation. But it doesnt make it any less real on screen.
Everyone in this bloody MCU is an Orphan. Stark, Rogers, Thor, Qill, Gamora, Rocket, Scarlet Witch, Parker.. have we seen a single healthy parent-child relationship? The best was probably Hawkeye.
They are all emotionally raw individuals who are still struggling with growing up, one way or another.
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2018-05-01, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
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2018-05-01, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Yeah, but the only Marvel films between now and IW2 are Captain Marvel and Ant Man and the Wasp.
Adam Warlock won't be appearing until GotG3 after all this is settled.
In the Infinity Gauntlet Warlock is, Strange not so much (none of the earth heroes are really. They're just there to add bigness to what is undoubtedly a Cosmic Marvel story).
It's Warlock, Surfer, and Nebula that are actually significant to the outcome.Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2018-05-01 at 04:34 PM.
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2018-05-01, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Spoiler
While at the start of the first Avengers Hulk, Thor and Tony seemed reasonably evenly-matched, both Tony and Thor have upped their game repeatedly since, whereas Hulk is still just Hulk. Collateral damage notwithstanding, Tony was able to defeat Hulk by Avengers 2 and Thor is able to hold his own against Hulk in Ragnarok even without his hammer or the lightning - and is then implied to defeat him once he lets the lightning loose. Bruce's reaction when Thor appears in Infinity War is pretty indicative. Thor and Tony haven't fought since the first Avengers movie, but at this point it's probably not unreasonable to assume Thor is stronger, especially with his new axe.
Indeed, and although we didn't really get the opportunity to dwell on it, the first surprising thing about the opening scene of Infinity War shouldn't have been that Thanos could beat up the Hulk, but that he'd already beaten the stuffing out of Thor.
Which is probably in part why Thor has been packed off on sidequests for most of Age of Ultron and Infinity War, so that he doesn't overshadow the rest of the cast.GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2018-05-01, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
I was in a theater that was about 40% full and I was amazed at how quiet everyone was during the film.
BTW, Loved the film. They really pulled it off!
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2018-05-01, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-05-01, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
So, I just watched this movie. Wow, that was depressing.
When is the sequel coming out? Will they reflixillate the timeline in true Marvel fashion, or is this the new normal?
Also, at this point I’m just bored with infinity stones. Meh.
Speaking of which, according to Dr. Strange’s colleague, the infinity stones were born in the Big Bang, aka our current universe. But I seem to recall Odin saying that the aether was from a time before our universe, and by implication the other stones. Granted cosmology is not anyone’s strong suit in the MCU, but this seems like a bit of a discrepancy to me.
(Although no worse than “dark elves” from before time began, who a) have eyes that see light and b) have a bipedal primate bauplan.)
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2018-05-01, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Depends how you define "orphan", of course. Thor was well into adulthood (if a man-child) by the time he lost his family. Tony was eighteen? On the cusp of adulthood, and he had a surrogate father in Stane in the aftermath. T'Challa's father died violently but T'Challa himself was an adult and had an established heroic identity by that point. We don't know what Banner's relationship with his parents is like in the MCU. Strange or Rhodes, ditto. Before Bucky's "death" he seemed to have a healthy family dynamic.
The problem, as ever, is that healthy families aren't interesting, whereas dead family members provides instant drama. So it's not surprising really.GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup
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2018-05-01, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
You gotta wonder though.
SpoilerWhy half? Why is half the magic number? Putting aside someone else pointing out that more than half the people on earth died in that moment due to trains planes and automobiles, why was he stuck on half? 75% would have crippled the various worlds giving them probably exponentially more time to work with, 25% would have dropped the populations impressively, and given how slow the total population of the earth is increasing, a instant 25% drop would set back the total for decades at least. Did he want 50 because that leaves enough of every government intact to keep things under control and minimize chaos? I should mention I havent watched the film so not sure if there was a specific reason why half was decided on."Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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2018-05-01, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
You know that was the two key insights of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby that made the 1960s marvel and it's follow up Marvel evolutions (but also other comic copied it and integrated it into their stories).
Those two keys insights were.
1) Create drama and even sometimes melodrama for drama sells long term stories where people keep reading but also they are invested in the characters.
2) Tell myth stories aka fantastical stories (what I mean by this I will explain more on this will come.)
1930s to 1950s comics often told stories at the vigilante level like stopping bank robbers, and having a hero with their side kick. This was the original golden age of comics.
Jack Kirby and to a lesser extent Stan Lee had the insight to tell over arching stories you have to tell origin stories of where you came from, and that origin stories are very important for human identity, consciousness, and theory of mind for they can be a glue to hold a more complicated identity together. You can not be a perfect person, but one part of you is awesome and it is getting more awesome for you develop it. Thus you can be a flawed being but also heroic, and the conflicting nature of this heroism and your flaws will allow you to tell drama.
One of the main thing in fantasy / mythological stories is this origin part of the narrative but once told you can tell more complicated stories where things change with adventures. Adventures can be fun and the heros can be challenged and they can lose things even if they win (remember the comic codes ethic rules literally required for good to always win).
But there is another term besides fantasy and also not science fiction a d that is science fantasy. Well almost all the marvel comics take place in the science fantasy genre much like Star Wars does.
So of course everyone in the MCU is an orphan, and even if they are not an orphan they have some form of lost or regret for this is part of their you tell a dramatic story around. You give them both a heroic trait which is a talent but also some sort of loss they are trying to overcome or prevent and the tension between the two create drama.
For example from 1963
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2018-05-01, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
SpoilerIn the most clear of terms I can think of, because a 50/50 split "sounds" balanced, due to it being an inherently balanced term. Splitting the universe 50/50, perfectly balanced. Thanos' obsession with the term is likely what influenced it. No greater math beyond it, and I'm find with that.
A more thought through answer on my part: Half of a world's total population is still a good enough number to populate the species while still leaving quite a bit of room for everyone to live and work in. Thinking of it this way, on Earth we have like what, 6 billion people? That's 3 billion left, more than enough to stay alive while still making a noticeable impact on the environment and our living situation. Of a group of six friends, three of them are poofed into dust. Any number higher than an exact 50% would lean a little too close to "and then we all die out".
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2018-05-01, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Just saw the movie, and boy was it worth the wait! I just felt that the marketing for this specific movie (the implication that the past 10 years was building up to this) was just a little off. 2008's Iron Man is a lead-in to the original Avengers movie, and only the latter is the lead-in (first time we got the Thanos hype) to this movie, so it's more 6-7 years in the making than 10.
One thing confusing me about the Soul StoneSpoilerWhy is the Red Skull guarding it? Wasn't he instead trying to use the Tesseract (Mind Stone) in the Cap movie? And how was it that he turned out to be teleported to this faraway planet, if he has nothing to do with the Space Stone?
Another thing that I didn't understand was that Thor and Heimdall...Spoiler...were able to use the bifrost to send them to places they weren't supposed to know the location to. Okay, maybe Heimdall can see through dimensions, and he actually saw when Thor was speaking to Strange in the Sanctorum. How about Thor going to Wakanda, of all places, though?