Results 991 to 1,020 of 1500
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2012-09-25, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- right behind you
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
No, what you see is her wing thrashing about and slowing as she drowns. Sort of like the standard movie bathtub drowning you see limbs flailing and slowing until it stops. I think the angle is just a little strange, so it looks like she lost a part of her wing.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2012-09-25, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Strongly disagree. Anyone who wants to keep the "Good" label, and not be in the Punisher's category of barely-non-antisociality, DOES NOT deny a villain the option of choosing to reform, make restitution and eventually be redeemed by doing more good than they previously have done evil. Every person that the Joker kills is solely to be blamed only on the Joker and not ever on anyone else who could have theoretically killed them. After all, you could prevent all future murders by just killing everybody (which is precisely Judge Death's logic, IIRC). Past behavior is not indicative of future possibilities; anyone could wake up with a different alignment overnight, so you always should work to prevent crimes AS they happen, not randomly execute anyone that you think MIGHT commit a crime later, even if you think that because of a long history of previous crimes (nor is capital punishment ever anything but thinly-disguised vengeance). Heroism is NOT about expedient, "get it over with" solutions. It is about accepting the risk that things may go wrong, and assuming personal responsibility for stopping that wrongness AS it happens. The correct solution is not for Batman to kill the Joker, it is for him to turn Gotham's run-of-the-mill criminals over to Robin and Huntress and so forth, and spend the rest of his life watching Joker 24/7 like a hawk, and making sure his natural lifespan exceeds Joker's or that he finds a replacement to take over the vigil otherwise.
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2012-09-25, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- right behind you
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
I call bull, while a single act isnt indicative of a pattern, when you have a psycho like the joker who repeatedly and consistently goes about murdering innocent people, you DO have a pattern, and yes, you do know that he will keep on doing it. Allowing him to continue going out and killing people in the vague hope that one day his psychosis will just magically heal and he becomes good is just as evil as committing the acts yourself, because you have it in your power to stop it, and you chose not to. When all other methods have been exhausted, there is no point in repeating the steps that clearly failed to work. Its expected to make him get arrested the first time. The second time its expected that you arrest him again and try to make his holding area more secure. But when you have had it repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot stop him from killing through nonlethal measures, its time to make a choice. Execute the guilty, or condemn untold innocents to death.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2012-09-25, 10:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
I'd argue that one actually. Bruce dedicates his life to stopping crime, he has no actual reason for doing this, is not government elected, nor does he have any social contract to keep doing what he's doing.
He is no more responsible for Joker's murders than any other bystander in Gotham, the only difference is he's a bystander and chooses to go out and limit the damage Joker is capable of doing and so what he is willing or even able to do (since Bruce feels that if he starts killing he won't be able to stop himself) is entirely his own philanthropic activities in Gotham. As such, any action he does on his own volition in prevention of crime can be seen in a heroic light. Now would it be better for all involved if Batman killed the Joker? Yes. But if he's right about himself and he does go all Punisher afterwards is that within the realm of respectable vigilantism? Then we get into opinions on the death penalty itself, and so forth.
And I think I had a point here that I was building up to. Ugh, that's what happens when I type when I'm about to go to sleep. Maybe this'll come to me tomorrow.
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2012-09-25, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Capital punishment is for crimes you really don't want committed- it's a strong disincentive.
Plus you whole "always give the villain a second chance" is so silly and non-sensical. The protagonists just slaughtered their way through a bunch of nameless guards (who, if you think about it, just have a day jobs to support the wife and kids), then you get to the top of the volcano lair and beat up the villain, and now for some reason you're supposed to spare them? The mastermind, the one who is genuinely evil, after killing all those guys who just happened to be working there.
Of course when you turn around, the spared villain reaches for the gun but then you kick him into a pit of lava and quip something pithy.
I guess that would make a great storyline for a 80s action movie, but I really hope goblins doesn't do something so cliched, inane, and morally senseless.
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2012-09-25, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
The Batman is neither judge nor jury, and there's no reason he should carry the burden of executioner. It makes less sense to me why the state doesn't execute him. I mean, the joker is like the worst terrorist in the world. You'd think they'd have an execution van all ready to go as soon as he was caught.
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2012-09-25, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Argonth
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
I never said it was the good thing to do, or the heroic thing. I said it's the moral thing. By my own reckoning.
She's taking a chance on Duv right now, that she'll come to her senses and play nice. I expect this decision to result in her death. It's not what I'd do. At least in theory, I wouldn't know for sure since I've never had to kill another person before. It seems like the best way.Witty sig here nosey, aren't ya?
Avatar by Hacktor
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2012-09-26, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
That's what you get for leaving NO legal authority available for capital punishment.
Never remove the permanent solution entirely. Make it hard to "qualify," sure. I can stand as high a standard of evidence and clear threat to society as you want to build. But never take it completely off the table.Last edited by Imgran; 2012-09-26 at 12:50 AM.
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2012-09-26, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Drawing a distinction between "good" and "moral" is wickety at best, at least IMO. As I said before, making decisions on the basis of expediency rather than principle is Neutral at best. I'd even lean toward calling it Evil (though the E-word isn't an absolute condemnation in my book, it's more like "no better than a crook", with no caveat that crooks are not still people possessing rights). Not wanting to deal with the long hard road of righteousness, just wanting to dispose of someone today in case they'd be inconvenient for you tomorrow (for an admittedly very high degree of inconvenience which is fairly reasonable to define)...I don't call that moral, I call it coldly mechanistic efficiency, leaning in the direction of dystopian.
You do not "know"; you assume. The Joker is sick in the head, and he probably won't just wake up well, but it's not impossible. I misspoke a bit earlier; you certainly have the right to assume he poses an immediate threat, but the correct response to knowing that Arkham can't hold him is to build a prison that's more secure than Arkham. Rehabilitating the Joker is an epic-level challenge, and the prison built to hold him should not be a level-appropriate challenge for him to overcome.
Allowing him to continue going out and killing people in the vague hope that one day his psychosis will just magically heal and he becomes good is just as evil as committing the acts yourself
* An ironic statement coming from me, I realize.
But when you have had it repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot stop him from killing through nonlethal measures, its time to make a choice. Execute the guilty, or condemn untold innocents to death.
According to my philosophy, no, it's still just a justification for murdering anyone you've decided you have the right to murder. It clearly isn't a 100% effective deterrent; the crime still happens, so your moral authority to keep using it is the odds that more murder would happen otherwise. And I don't believe that to be very true. I think an actually effective incarceration and rehabilitation system (not what we have, due to budget constraints, corruption, incompetence, and many other factors) is potentially a FAR better anti-crime measure than any amount of capital punishment could ever be. You just have to do it right, and ceasing to try because it's too difficult is not a reasonable course of action IMO.
Plus you whole "always give the villain a second chance" is so silly and non-sensical. The protagonists just slaughtered their way through a bunch of nameless guards (who, if you think about it, just have a day jobs to support the wife and kids)
I guess that would make a great storyline for a 80s action movie, but I really hope goblins doesn't do something so cliched, inane, and morally senseless.
**
Spoilerfor having killed that fox just to prove she could, not knowing at the time it was an act of mercy.
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2012-09-26, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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- Hey, look! Squirrels!
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Why, Saves. Why.
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2012-09-26, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Lustria
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Last edited by Killer Angel; 2012-09-26 at 02:07 AM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
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2012-09-26, 02:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Almonte, ON, Canada
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Oh, good. Gigantic off-topic morality debates! I do so love it when the multiple quotes start getting brought out, 'cause that means it's just getting started.
No, seriously, make a thread, but I don't think 5000-word "Should Batman kill Joker" posts are best put here. Pretty please? I don't want to dread opening the Goblins thread lest I have to wade through pages of arguments.My PMV's! Youtube Channel
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2012-09-26, 05:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Lustria
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2012-09-26, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2012
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
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2012-09-26, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
- Location
- Argonth
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Of course it's neutral, I said so myself. "Moral" means different things depending on who you talk to, in the interest of not ruining the thread let's please not go into the specifics of that.
You do not "know"; you assume. The Joker is sick in the head, and he probably won't just wake up well, but it's not impossible.
Once again, YOU do not condemn anyone. The Joker does. He is not a disease, he is not a wild animal; he is a sentient human being and remains 100% responsible for his own actions at all times.
That much is agreed. But we don't know that Duv is anywhere near as irredeemable as the Joker - though we also don't know that Saves is as much an idealist as Batman.Witty sig here nosey, aren't ya?
Avatar by Hacktor
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2012-09-26, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
I don't think Fox would (or should) kill a defeated Duv either, but chopping off a piece of her [o]other[/i] wing and wearing it on her belt as a reminder that "There IS no destiny but what we make foe ourselves!" would be epic.
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2012-09-26, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Since this thread is now about Batman:
1. He did kill the Joker at least once; I'm pretty sure. But it didn't stick.
2. He's not an official and he has no legal license to kill. If he kills the Joker, it's a murder.Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2012-09-26, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-26, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
There was also the time he half broke Joker's neck, and Joker broke it all the way, basically framing Batman for his own death.
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2012-09-27, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
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2012-09-27, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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- MI
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
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2012-09-27, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Lustria
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2012-09-27, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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2012-09-27, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
It was actually used as a means for getting further support by the police to catch him. Mind you they were already attempting to do so anyway, but now they could pin for murder as well. It makes sense if you read the comic, they really wanted to capture Batman in that one.
Anyway, sbout Goblins. Saves is dumb. Biscuit is awesome. Chief is missed. Senior Vorpal Kickass'o is a hero. And when was the last time we saw the main group of goblins? It feels like it's been forever.
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2012-09-27, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
According to the URL, it was on January 21, 2011.
It's been a pretty long time.
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2012-09-27, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Argonth
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2012-09-27, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
Yeah, that one comic, "SENORRRRR VORPAL KICKASSOOOOOO!!!!!" Was freaking epic. I loved that wild dash straight for Kore, the sound of Chief in pain snapping him out of his mute broken mind and straight into action. I Really REALLY want to see how senor vorpal acts after they get a bit of breathing room. Will he sink back into immobility? Or will he be functional, but still heavily scarred mentally?
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2012-09-27, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
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2012-09-28, 06:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- NYC
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2012-09-28, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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- East Midlands, UK
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Re: Goblins IX: For that, you shall DIE!
"Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot" - N.Gaiman, The Sandman