Yes, but samus has always had superior equipment and stuff to her smarter enemies. When she decks huge creatures all the time, it's not just that she's that good (though she is), it's also because they're kinda stupid and have absolutely disgusting fighting technique. A real fighter like the swarmlord wouldn't just constantly lunge in melee and then take about 5 seconds to figure out that samus dodged.
Again that's an in-game limitation. We're seeing the action from Samu's PoV, that certainly has much better reflexes tha us simple people. What looked like a 5 sec delay from the boss may as well be a fraction of second in a real combat. The game would be unplayable otherwise!
This is, I could just as well say the Swarmlord takes half an hour between attacks since that's around as much time it'll take between two assault phases in TT.
Again, assuming he can get close at all. Samus's a ranged specialist, she has no reasons to stay and wait for the big bug with four swords to close in.
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Originally Posted by Top cat
Remember fighting meta ridley in metroid prime? Just how much of a chance do you think you would have stood if he'd just kept slashing at you and driven you into a corner rather than used his idiot lunge attack?
Also, the swarmlord is an ~8m biped. It's probably pretty fast and has a psychic ranged attack.
Well, we know from the manga that's Ridley is a big show off
Also he can fly. The swarmlord meanwhile may be big, but size=/=movement speed, and unless it's a nice plains it can easily turn against him when the ground can't hold his massive weight.
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Originally Posted by lord_khaine
But even dying once is enough for him to lose, doesnt matter if he comes back later on
Hmm, if dying once is enough for disqualification that indeed makes it trickier.
Still don't count Jack out as he may as he's shown to be a king of resilience, since as Prime32 pointed out his enemies had basically to rewrite reality to erase him from existence to get him out of the way!
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Originally Posted by lord_khaine
Thats mostly because of a combination of it being the only option, and bad writing, considering Johns ability to move at close to light speed would make it impossible for a human to get even close to him with a flamethrower, and his Phase ability should make it easy getting rid of the nanobots.
Honestly, Batmans contingency plans were mostly retardet, and only worked because of bad writing, for gods sake, some of the plans consistet of hypnotising GL while he were asleep, or hitting the Flash with a projectile weapon
I'll have to agree you on that one, super powered people just seem to get more stupid when near batman!
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Originally Posted by Prime32
He usually plays around with his opponents first, which works because it's basically impossible to one-shot him. He can spot the tiniest weaknesses with ease, and has been known to create on the spot superior versions of techniques he saw someone use once years ago.
Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be suprised if Jack proceeded to shoot Omega lazors from his eyes while unlocking his full psychic potential!
Last edited by deuterio12 : 01-08-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
Im actualy pretty sure thats a style of magic that Jack doesnt use, i dont think he at any time have produced any sort of elemental attack.
Hmm. Samus never seemed particularly fast (travel speed) to me, except while dodging. From what I've seen, I don't think she could keep her distance from the swarmlord (who, let's get real, should be a few times faster than a human but isn't for balance reasons - just like samus, really). Do we have locations for either fight?
Well Prime32, i think you are forgetting that using that spell Blew Jack up
What can ya say, he is, as the chick with the glasses whose name I cannot recall, a genuine idiot :P
Though it's interesting to note it was Evangeline's spell that evidently blew him up.
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Originally Posted by dehro
so basically vampires are sporks?
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But I don`t have to know an answer. I don`t feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose. It doesn't frighten me.
1 Creed & Swarmlord (Warhammer 40k) vs 22 Samus & Dark Samus (Metroid)
Blowing up critters like the Swarmlord is something Samus does twice before breakfast, and Creed is no a match for her or the clone in a strait-up fight either.
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Last edited by Even Human : 01-09-2012 at 09:21 AM.
Hmm, ok. That's pretty fast, but I don't want to hear any "supersonic". That's not supersonic, it just sounds cool and alliterates.
Can she do this indefinitely? Apparently it takes a few seconds to charge, but does it keep gong or only last a set time? What about manouverability (there was a 3d game it was featured in) - can she dodge around obstacles? Is it actually effective for running around, or just for charging at enemies and completing puzzles? And then there's again, the arena. It'll have a huge effect on this fight. How does selecting it work again :s
Actualy it's been stablished that Batman's contigency plan against MM is simply "KILL IT WITH FIRE", be it advanced nanobots that constantly burn the atmosphere around him or plain flamethrowers.
That's a pretty lame "plan", and very weak writing if that's the word-for-word quote. What's the contigency plan for Superman? "KILL IT WITH KRYPTONITE"? Simply stating a weakness and saying, "Use that" isn't exactly a plan.
Hey, want to hear my plan to kill Batman? Shoot him with a gun! I know, brilliant, right? The Joker is such an idiot.
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Originally Posted by deuterio12
Well, Evangeline can teleport trough shadows and isn't exactly an adept of fair fighting so I can perfectly see her switch out. Plus being a vampire may make her immune to mental attacks. Jack's willpower is strong enough to reverse death!
OK, shadow teleportation and dirty fighting, good. I don't know much about these Negima guys, so help me out. Questions about Evangeline:
1. Is there any in-canon evidence that she can resist high-level psychic attacks?
2. If she switches over to fight Doomsday... um, what could she do against him?
Questions about Jack:
1. How strong is he? Meaning, what kinds of feats has he done that would help me gauge his level of strength?
2. How does Jack "reverse" death? How fast is the process? If it isn't done in the heat of battle, Jack's death would count as a technical knock-out, even if he comes back after the fight.
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That's a pretty lame "plan", and very weak writing if that's the word-for-word quote. What's the contigency plan for Superman? "KILL IT WITH KRYPTONITE"? Simply stating a weakness and saying, "Use that" isn't exactly a plan.
Hey, want to hear my plan to kill Batman? Shoot him with a gun! I know, brilliant, right? The Joker is such an idiot.
OK, shadow teleportation and dirty fighting, good. I don't know much about these Negima guys, so help me out. Questions about Evangeline:
1. Is there any in-canon evidence that she can resist high-level psychic attacks?
2. If she switches over to fight Doomsday... um, what could she do against him?
Questions about Jack:
1. How strong is he? Meaning, what kinds of feats has he done that would help me gauge his level of strength?
2. How does Jack "reverse" death? How fast is the process? If it isn't done in the heat of battle, Jack's death would count as a technical knock-out, even if he comes back after the fight.
Evangeline
1. Can't remember
2. Freeze him into place, punch him through buildings.
Jack
1. I can't think of a specific example
2. He was unmade by the powers of creation. He apparently willed himself back to existence and joined in the final battle. There was a period of time between the final battle and his apparent death.
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Hey, want to hear my plan to kill Batman? Shoot him with a gun! I know, brilliant, right? The Joker is such an idiot.
Nah, the Joker just loves to play around with Batman too much. And nobody else dares to shoot batman because that would make the Joker come after them. No, seriously, there's a story where it seems like one of Joker's flunkies got a killing shot in batman, the Joker "rewards" him by nailing him inside a coffin and throwing him inside a boiling chemical vault.
In another story where the Joker chains batman in the middle of an open room and tells his flunkies to fill him with bullets, they discover the Joker replaced all their ammo with blank cartridges!
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Originally Posted by zingbat
OK, shadow teleportation and dirty fighting, good. I don't know much about these Negima guys, so help me out. Questions about Evangeline:
1. Is there any in-canon evidence that she can resist high-level psychic attacks?
2. If she switches over to fight Doomsday... um, what could she do against him?
1-Well, in 40K pshicic powers and magic are basically the same, and Evangeline is a magician with centuries of experience with all kind of protective spells.
2-The problem with Evangeline it's that she's one of those characters that so far has never truly gone all out, and actualy mostly sits out of the action so the other characters can do something. However we know she can dothis. And yes, that's your typical reality-destroying demon from beyond that she defeated whitout a sweat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zingbat
Questions about Jack:
1. How strong is he? Meaning, what kinds of feats has he done that would help me gauge his level of strength?
2. How does Jack "reverse" death? How fast is the process? If it isn't done in the heat of battle, Jack's death would count as a technical knock-out, even if he comes back after the fight.
1-Well, he throws swords sized for cleaving battleships and two-punches ancient wyrms.
2-Hell if anyone knows how he does it besides "fighting spirit"!
However, he revived himself in some seconds after being nuked and impaled by Negi. Erased from reality took him several hours tough.
Hmm, ok. That's pretty fast, but I don't want to hear any "supersonic". That's not supersonic, it just sounds cool and alliterates.
Can she do this indefinitely? Apparently it takes a few seconds to charge, but does it keep gong or only last a set time? What about manouverability (there was a 3d game it was featured in) - can she dodge around obstacles? Is it actually effective for running around, or just for charging at enemies and completing puzzles? And then there's again, the arena. It'll have a huge effect on this fight. How does selecting it work again :s
It takes 1 second to charge, and her maneuverability is limited - she can dodge obstacles but has to stop briefly to make sharp turns. However, she can also use it to fly. There is no time limit.
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Originally Posted by deuterio12
2-Hell if anyone knows how he does it besides "fighting spirit"!
However, he revived himself in some seconds after being nuked and impaled by Negi. Erased from reality took him several hours tough.
He came back partially about a minute or two after being erased so that he could give Negi advice, then disintegrated again.
I'm gonna go with Jack and Evangeline against Martian Manhunter and Doomsday. I can't honestly claim to know as much about the latter as I do of the former, but given how powerful Rakan and Evangeline are I think it's safe to give them the advantage.
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Originally Posted by dehro
so basically vampires are sporks?
Quote:
But I don`t have to know an answer. I don`t feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose. It doesn't frighten me.
I'm gonna go with Jack and Evangeline against Martian Manhunter and Doomsday. I can't honestly claim to know as much about the latter as I do of the former, but given how powerful Rakan and Evangeline are I think it's safe to give them the advantage.
Martian Manhunter has dragged around a moon and knocked out the entire Justice League, Doomsday has come out of a black hole alive and murdered Superman. I find your argument lacking. Being "powerful" is not enough to claim an advantage.
Can you elaborate on this? Did he escape under his own power or...
After smashing the army and spacefleet of a planet, Doomsday gets in a fight with the GL corps. After a massive battle raging across multiple space sectors and resulting in the deaths of thousands of Lanterns, Doomsday arrives on Oa. In a battle with the Guardians, they unleash what looks like a black hole, which rips an entire continent out of the planet, as well as taking down Doomsday. They think he has been obliterated, but he manages to escape.
Full disclosure, Doomsday does have GL ring for much of the battle. Although it is destroyed before he is cast into the Black Hole.
Also noteworthy, Doomsday battles a being called the Radiant, and the site of their battle is an entire continent turned to glass through the power of the energy unleashed.
Both of these are defeats Doomsday suffered several hundred thousand years before battling Superman. Doomsday goes up against the Radiant again in a Superman miniseries and kills him incredibly quickly, having adapted to disperse energy.
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Didn't he do that by making a gas tanker explode in Superman's face?
No. He did that by repeatedly punching Superman, in a duel that crossed over a massive area and included the Armed forces, Legion and Cadmus, Supergirl, the Justice League and others all intervening to help Superman and being roundly defeated. An exploding gas tanker briefly serves as a distraction to Superman allowing Doomsday to move the fight to Metropolis, but it doesn't injure him.
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And hasn't Superman since beaten up armies of Doomsdays at once?
I hear so, although I haven't personally read it. However, clones and copies are basically always rubbish.
The second time Doomsday and Superman fought, Supes packed special Kryptonite battle gear, and was actually defeated in even shorter order. Relying on a timely intervention from Waverider to save him.
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I'm pretty sure every member of the Justice League has knocked out the entire Justice League by now, including the guys with no powers.
This is a fair point, and I'll endeavour to find some better examples for J'onn.
After smashing the army and spacefleet of a planet, Doomsday gets in a fight with the GL corps. After a massive battle raging across multiple space sectors and resulting in the deaths of thousands of Lanterns, Doomsday arrives on Oa. In a battle with the Guardians, they unleash what looks like a black hole, which rips an entire continent out of the planet, as well as taking down Doomsday. They think he has been obliterated, but he manages to escape.
Full disclosure, Doomsday does have GL ring for much of the battle. Although it is destroyed before he is cast into the Black Hole.
To be honest, Hal Jordan is a normal human and he also soloed the whole GL corps and guardians just because he had a green latern ring. Also surviving black holes is kinda a staple for comic characters, if not outright a salvation ticket ("remember that giant explosion that looked like it disintregated me? Yeah, turns out it formed a black hole of sorts that put me in some other dimension and now I got back baby!")
EDIT: This site seems to confirm it "The resulting explosion destroys the mountain and, as far as the Guardians could tell, Doomsday. In actuality, the explosion tore a hole in space itself, sending Doomsday hurtling thousands and thousands of light years away. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selrahc
Also noteworthy, Doomsday battles a being called the Radiant, and the site of their battle is an entire continent turned to glass through the power of the energy unleashed.
You're forgeting the point where the continent was glassed because they hit the super-reactor that fueled everything in the planet and it super-exploded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selrahc
No. He did that by repeatedly punching Superman, in a duel that crossed over a massive area and included the Armed forces, Legion and Cadmus, Supergirl, the Justice League and others all intervening to help Superman and being roundly defeated. An exploding gas tanker briefly serves as a distraction to Superman allowing Doomsday to move the fight to Metropolis, but it doesn't injure him.
That was propaganda. Superman was geting kinda of stale, so hey let's kill and ressurect him! (plus he never really died, more like he was left in coma)
On the other hand, it helped that doosmday, exceptionally, can make superman bleed with its sharp extremities. Not being an anime character, supes cannot afford to lose multiple gallons of blood. Jack, on the other hand, is an anime character so doosmday cannot kill him with blood loss!
Last edited by deuterio12 : 01-09-2012 at 03:59 PM.
Also surviving black holes is kinda a staple for comic characters, if not outright a salvation ticket ("remember that giant explosion that looked like it disintregated me? Yeah, turns out it formed a black hole of sorts that put me in some other dimension and now I got back baby!")
Currently the biggest feats claimed for Jack are smashing battleships and causing a big explosion in an arena. Even if you think comic-black holes don't count, I'd say continent glassing super-explosions are a whole league above that.
Made some edits to my post, may want to check it out. Mainly the guardian explosion ended up only teleporting stuff to other place, and the glassed continent was because of a reactor explosion, not doomsday's own power.
On the other hand, it helped that doosmday, exceptionally, can make superman bleed with its sharp extremities. Not being an anime character, supes cannot afford to lose multiple gallons of blood. Jack, on the other hand, is an anime character so doosmday cannot kill him with blood loss!
but repeatet blunt trauma from someone with superman+ levels of strength can penetrate even his abnormaly thick skull, and knock him unconcious.
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Jack has destroyed mountains and infinitely-large pocket dimensions. He can punch hard enough to kill someone standing a kilometer away, and threw a spear fast enough to create an explosion kilometers in width. He can easily punch his way through a shield that withstood being fired on by an orbital laser from the future, and also has techniques which ignore his opponents' defences outright (Zanmaken Nii no Tachi could hit J'onn while he's intangible or pass through Doomsday's skin to hit his brain).
__________________ Minmaxboards are back up! But BG will be deleted soon; for reals. Last chance to save anything.
Altough I'm rooting for Negima here, I must point out it's been stated that Doomsday has long evolved over having soft squishy vitual tissues of any kind. There's even a comic where supes uses a high-tech laser sword to almost cut doomsday in half, and we can see it has no internal organs or blood whatsoever inside, just compact grey mass that quickly glues itself back togheter. He's more of a flesh golem than a monstruous humanoid.
Last edited by deuterio12 : 01-10-2012 at 04:40 AM.
...has techniques which ignore his opponents' defences outright (Zanmaken Nii no Tachi could hit J'onn while he's intangible...
Debatable, to say the least. When the rules of two universes contradict each other, your favourite characters rules do not necessarily take presidence.
Anyway, Negima Wiki says that the technique "cuts a demonic spirit behind a person without injuring the person." Martians don't count as demonic spirirts.
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Anyway, Negima Wiki says that the technique "cuts a demonic spirit behind a person without injuring the person." Martians don't count as demonic spirirts.
Like already said it's a joke from tg\. He can help others infiltrate, but doesn't get free tanks.
I dare you to find a source for that. Standard krak missiles are more than enough to pierce the swarmlord's armor, and he only even gets an invulnerable save in close combat thanks to his parryng skillz. Even in the fluff it says nothing on the Swarmlord being exceptionally durable when compared to your average Hive Tyrant.
Congratulations, you just showed you know even less of Metroid than 40K.
First, Samus did receive genetic augments of her own when she was taken by the Chozo, otherwise woudln't survive on their planet.
Second, Cain is a completely normal human from 40K, that actualy strives to stay away from combat as much as possible, and he easily outskills chaos marines. Now Samus faces power armored monsters and eldritch horrors as her daily job. Think about how much skill that can grant if being a human watching for the artillery miles away from any danger allows you to outskill a SM.
Um..again, I actually read the wikitroid article on her non suit based capabilities.
All it really does it heighten it to assassin grade levels of dexterity, and allow her to breathe in alien atmospheres.. even the zero suit is still a type of power armor.
Inside it, her mind is just as vulnerable as an exceptionally strong willed person.
Exceptional within human limits, not space marine limits.
Swarm Lord can, and will, use his psychic abilities to rip her mind apart.
And also Creed can get himself a baneblade, anytime he damn well pleases. Especially if this conflict is important enough to ally himself with a Tyranid.
Of course if we're going to represent both at top power we could always give Creed a Retribution Class Imperial Warship, and Swarmlord his splinter fleet.
and Samus her ship.
I personally also do not appreciate your patronizing tone in your post, nor the constant rudeness I have encountered when discussing things with you. I will not be responding to further posts from you. now, or ever.
And also Creed can get himself a baneblade, anytime he damn well pleases. Especially if this conflict is important enough to ally himself with a Tyranid.
Of course if we're going to represent both at top power we could always give Creed a Retribution Class Imperial Warship, and Swarmlord his splinter fleet.
and Samus her ship.
I believe you're thinking about the conflict wrong. This is the two 40k fighters and the two Metroid fighters teleported to a location to battle to the death.
The fighters have somewhat standard gear, that they use. So while Creed could possibly requisition himself a Sentinel power lifter, a Displacement field, a stack full of void and vortex grenades and a conversion beamer, he doesn't get that. He gets the equipment he uses.
No allies are allowed. This is the fighters as fighters. Not as commanders. (And in my opinion Creed was a really silly nomination because his noteworthy strength is as a tactician and strategist, not a fighter.)
I believe you're thinking about the conflict wrong. This is the two 40k fighters and the two Metroid fighters teleported to a location to battle to the death.
The fighters have somewhat standard gear, that they use. So while Creed could possibly requisition himself a Sentinel power lifter, a Displacement field, a stack full of void and vortex grenades and a conversion beamer, he doesn't get that. He gets the equipment he uses.
No allies are allowed. This is the fighters as fighters. Not as commanders. (And in my opinion Creed was a really silly nomination because his noteworthy strength is as a tactician and strategist, not a fighter.)
No Baneblade for Creed.
No baneblade definatly since it requires a crew but if you can find a fluff example of his using other equitment then that would be fair to use. But you can't assume he will suddenly gear up in power armour and plasma weapons when he dosen't use those normally.
__________________ sacrificing minions: is there any promblem it CAN'T solve?
No baneblade definatly since it requires a crew but if you can find a fluff example of his using other equitment then that would be fair to use. But you can't assume he will suddenly gear up in power armour and plasma weapons when he dosen't use those normally.
Creed's kinda out of luck on that field, since one of the main characteristic of 40K special characters is that they never change their special wargear (which half-justifies their reduced point cost in comparison with vannilla commanders).
Anyway, even if he could requisition vehicles, he can't request warships for the simple fact he's an IG officer, and the IG and Imperial navy are two separate entities that don't take orders from one another. A suposed fail-safe to prevent commanders that realize the uglyness of the IoM and break free turn renegade instantly geting control of the nearest fleet.
And that's why guardsmen curse the heavens as they're forced to fight bloody ground battles when some simple warship suport could make their life much easier.
EDIT: On the other hand, sneaking inside a massive battleship, butchering the crew, overloard the reactors and escape as it explodes on the background is precisely the kind of thing Samus does as warm ups.
Last edited by deuterio12 : 01-10-2012 at 02:53 PM.
Creed's kinda out of luck on that field, since one of the main characteristic of 40K special characters is that they never change their special wargear (which half-justifies their reduced point cost in comparison with vannilla commanders).
Anyway, even if he could requisition vehicles, he can't request warships for the simple fact he's an IG officer, and the IG and Imperial navy are two separate entities that don't take orders from one another. A suposed fail-safe to prevent commanders that realize the uglyness of the IoM and break free turn renegade instantly geting control of the nearest fleet.
And that's why guardsmen curse the heavens as they're forced to fight bloody ground battles when some simple warship suport could make their life much easier.
EDIT: On the other hand, sneaking inside a massive battleship, butchering the crew, overloard the reactors and escape as it explodes on the background is precisely the kind of thing Samus does as warm ups.
The battlefield therefore is now a Space Hulk. Does this change anything?
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