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Thread: lich phylactery
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2012-11-13, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-13, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
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2012-11-13, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-13, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Step 1: Get a Large or Colossal Box.
Step 2: Cast Animate Object on it.
Step 3: Cast Permanency on it.
Step 4: Equip your Animated Box (henceforth known as Vault) with a Third Eye Conceal and a Ring of Invisibility.
Step 5: Create a Craft Contingent Ghost Form for Vault.
Step 6: Have Vault activate it's CC Ghost Form.
Step 7: Cast Ghost Form on yourself.
Step 8: Cast Temporal Stasis on Vault, having it voluntarily forgo it's save (and thus immunity to creature only Transmutations).
Step 9: Dimension Door inside Vault.
Step 10: Greater Teleport yourself to the center of a randomly chosen star in a randomly chosen galaxy.
Step 11: Cast Disintegrate to empty Vault of stellar matter.
Step 12: Cast Mage's Private Sanctum inside Vault.
Step 13: Make Mage's Private Sanctum Permanent.
Step 14: Furnish Vault with all the equipment you want on hand for regeneration.
Step 15: Place a Weirdstone inside Vault and activate it.
Step 16: Create a Golem ( I would go with Shadesteel) with the Rudimentary Intelligence feat.
Step 17: Place Golem inside Vault and cast a Permanent Telepathic Bond on Golem.
Step 18: Create a Permanent Teleportation Circle back to your regular area of operations.
Step 19: Rest and recover your spells.
Step 20: Order Golem to deactivate your Weirdstone.
Step 21: Use your Teleportation Circle.
Step 22: Over the Telepathic Bond order Golem to reactivate your Weirdstone.
That should keep your safe from virtually everything. The only way for anyone but you to get inside your Vault is with a Wish (and how precise your destination needs to be is a matter of DM adjudication, "Next to Tippy's phylactery" might be perfectly acceptable) and nothing else is a threat. Whenever you want to visit your Vault you simply order your Golem to deactivate the Weirdstone and teleport it (or Wish yourself in), or die.
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2012-11-14, 04:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Well that does seem a rather solid defense. Though since you can be a Lich at Caster Level 11 and you don't HAVE to be a wizard or Cleric then this sort of set up wouldn't be possible (Getting someone to help you requires trust, something I don't see any person/thing going to this much trouble has)
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2012-11-14, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Put you phalactry inside a golem and then any of the following:
1) Dump it overboard into the deepest darkest depth of the sea.
2) feed it to a tarseresque.
3) Hide it in a tomb with an army of similar golems
4) Fit it with a spawn money trap and sell it.
5) Drop it in the trackless wastes of the largest and most desolate desert in the world. Order it to bury itself during the day and relocate itself at night.
6) Fit it with some kind of random teleport so it moves somewhere else every time its hit.
7) Cast some kind of permanent levitation spell on it so it drifts serenely around the world in the jetsteam.Last edited by Blightedmarsh; 2012-11-14 at 04:46 AM.
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2012-11-14, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Assuming you've just put the phylactery in a hollow in the golemn's body, since it can't actually be part of the golemn, 1 & 2 don't work because they both result in the destruction of your phylactery, kinda the opposite of what you're shooting for. 4 has economic implications which are utterly staggering.
I like the rest of them though. I might modify 6 so that it triggers when anyone attempts to hit it rather than whenever it's succesfully hit though.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2012-11-14, 05:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Assuming you've just put the phylactery in a hollow in the golemn's body, since it can't actually be part of the golemn, 1 & 2 don't work because they both result in the destruction of your phylactery, kinda the opposite of what you're shooting for. 4 has economic implications which are utterly staggering.
I like the rest of them though. I might modify 6 so that it triggers when anyone attempts to hit it rather than whenever it's successfully hit though.
4) That's part of the idea. This will end up being one of the most valuable, well guarded and fought over objects in the world as well as destabilizing the world economy. Not only does this protect it but it also ferments a conflicts for you to manipulate and exploit as well as acting as a distraction and a ready supply of corpses for your world conquering army.
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2012-11-14, 05:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Unfortunately, I don't think the crushing damage from deep water cares about whether there are any hollows in the structure like RL physics does. Let me check and I'll edit in a confirmation/denial.
Edit: seems I was wrong. There's a fort save to negate the damage and objects and con - creatures don't have to make fort saves unless the effect specifically says it effects objects. Oddly, this means that even if the golemn was filled with little air pockets he'd be fine. Silly RAW.
Item number 2 on that list is still a terribad idea though.Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-14 at 05:43 AM.
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2012-11-14, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
I'm not the biggest spell caster, so this may be incredibly flawed. All the same, I was inspired by the chap stick idea.
It has been said that you are not permitted to make a phylactery out of an item that is magic, nor make that phylactery magic.
What if you made a box, as is mentioned before, and get an artificer to craft some sort of spell trigger for some crazy spell. I was thinking making one lose interest in the box.
Then you put the box somewhere -- anywhere -- and you don't have to worry about that box being disturbed.
Just my 2 cents.
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2012-11-14, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
there is a spell that does just that though I'm not sure artificers can emulate it
aversion would also work, but the save is a little low, and it too is mind=affecting.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
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2012-11-14, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Most people would agree with me on this, but that spell in the hands of a Lich player is effectively a "Nope, I don't die. Suck it". So if you're not allowed to play Lich's at your table, this spell is generally the "why" to that.
Koschei the Deathless would be proud.
If it is a spell, the Artificer can make it.Larloch, The Shadow King (w/ Ioun Stones) avatar by Iron Penguin
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2012-11-14, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
No. It prevents new undead from being created, but undead can enter the effect. You'll take a -4 to your turning resistance, but chances are that even if one of the good guys happens to wander down into whatever vault your sword is in, they will probably not be close enough to your level to stand a chance against your powers.
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2012-11-14, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-14, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
I realize that this is a high-level option, but what about Genesis? After reading the spell several times, it seems that this should work...:
Create a demi-plane with the following: the middle...say...60ft with the Positive-dominant trait (using Golden Ladybug's idea of a planar-trait resistant box, probably around 10-15 feet to a side, so you can regenerate comfortably, and have your extra spell books, components, etc. around.) The rest of the plane should have the Negative-dominant trait, (help dissuade enemies from being there, and 1d6 fast healing for you...)
Next, give the plane the time trait of 10 days = 1 round on Material (this is why you need the arcane/divine version, the psionic version has that annoying clause about time...)
If I'm reading it right, this should be possible, and it gives you the benefit of returning to action approximately 1 round of being "killed."
You may want to cast the spell a few extra times to make the plane larger...keeps enemies away longer...(besides, what's 5000exp/cast at high levels? )Last edited by Rijan_Sai; 2012-11-14 at 03:50 PM.
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2012-11-18, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
I just realized there may be a huge problem with the OP's idea of a chameleon lich. Becoming a lich will disqualify you for able learner which, in turn, will disqualify you for chameleon.
This could be a huge problem if the DM rules it that way. More than before, I strongly suggest asking your DM if this is kosher.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2012-11-18, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Larloch, The Shadow King (w/ Ioun Stones) avatar by Iron Penguin
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2012-11-18, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Those contradicting statements make the exact nature of the RAW fuzzy at best, in this case.
That's why I reiterated my suggestion of discussing it with the DM.
I always advise discussing things with the DM on issues of fuzzy RAW or other highly debatable material, such as alignment.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2012-11-18, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Hmm, I remember reading about a phylactery hiding technique somewhere, though I can't quite remember the source. It goes a little something like this:
1: Take a 1st level sorcerer as an apprentice.
2: Train sorcerer to level 2
3: Kill the sorcerer
4: Carve the phylactery in the inside of the sorcerer's skull
5: Resurrect sorcerer
6: Continue grooming your sorcerer to be your second in command.
Now you end up with a mobile, self preserving phylactery with potent spell casting abilities. Also, doing so also ensures that your apprentice won't pull a starscream on you, since you can't be killed without the sorceror suffering a slow, painful death 1d10 days later.
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2012-11-18, 11:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
First, make sure you have a way to survive in an airless environment, and a way to cast spells without sound. Silent Spell at least, and you may want a greater metamagic rod of it.
Create a plane via Genesis. The plane should be airless; other than that, add whatever useful planar traits you can get away with. Then set up your phylactery-crafting workshop in there, and plaster the plane with forbiddance.
Craft the phylactery there in secret; under no circumstances allow any hands but yours to touch it.
Add plenty of protective spells around your phylactery, and include whatever equipment you'd need handy upon resurrection (basic equipment for spellcasting, at the very least). Also trap the place to taste.
A demiplane wholly covered by forbiddance cannot be entered by any means short of wish. Forbiddance only blocks travel to its interior, not leaving, so you're fine getting out after regenerating. The phylactery is near-impossible to locate; nobody can discern location it, as no one has touched it, and lesser spells can be warded against. In the event that someone does wish themselves into your plane, they will be going in blind (hopefully. Are there any other divinations I should be taking into account?). They will then find themselves unable to breathe, unable to cast spells with verbal components, and will be subject to your traps and all the planar traits of your demiplane.
This is still imperfect; someone with sufficient resources and preparedness could still wish in, defeat your defenses, and destroy your phylactery. But in nearly any circumstance there are easier ways to get rid of you than destroying you outright, and it's a better investiture of effort to try to defend against these.
On a related note: I've often given this matter thought (you might be able to tell!) but one thing I can't figure out how to properly defend against is imprisonment. While we're protecting our liches from permanent death, is there any way we can cover them against this 9th-level spell?
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2012-11-18, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
All that is needed to reverse Imprisonment is a Freedom spell.
You have 1) a Familiar, and if your DM is nice, 2) a cohort from Leadership or Undead Leadership. Either one might be able to free you, given the right magic item and/or class for the cohort (ya know, a scroll of Freedom or another sort of magical item which casts the spell). You could also get a Contingency plus Greater Dispel Magic to counter the spell.
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2012-11-19, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
I believe there is a spell (from Libris Mortis, I think) that makes you explode to deal damage to enemies, while simultaneously making it impossible to resurrect you.
Get a contingent casting of that spell, that triggers when someone casts Imprisonment on you. You explode, regenerate at your Phylactery and also become immune to unwanted attempts to bring you back to life
Also, after checking the traits of a Positive Dominant Plane:
Originally Posted by SRD
FTFY
You don't want your Phylactery holder dying on you, do you? How would it be able to use its own spells to keep you safe if it just keels over and dies from old age?
That said, I wouldn't be so naive as to entrust the secret of my immortality to anyone other than me, and even then...
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2012-11-25, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
depending on whether you disintegrate (or something of the like) when you die, you could just make it your rib bone and inscribe it with invisible ink. perhaps enchant it to prevent it form giving off any magical auras?
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2012-11-25, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
1) Take a few levels of Fleshwarper (Or better yet, have a Fleshwarper on staff)
2) prepare for Lichdom, Design your phylactery to be a flexible spine.
3) Kidnap princess McGuffin and perform a quick surgery on her.
4) Make sure she is healed completely and fully afterwards.
5) wait for the PCs to come in and save the day, and finalize your transformation to lichdom by letting them take that pesky mortality from you.
While their at it, why don't they take the princess and keep her safe too...
Why expend your own resources keeping a phylactery safe when you can let an entire nation do it for you. It's not like they can take out the poor girl's spine on a whim, and good luck finding a good flesh warper to take it out again safely. For extra credit, make it an Elven princess so you have a good long amount of time to find a new 'suitor' for your next phylactery, or ask your local friendly DM if the host dying counts as the Phylactery being destroyed. If not, then, Hey! Whose going to defile the grave of the long loved Queen Lijji with out a damn good reason.
Plus if you die, you'd raise up again in a royal graveyard. Go Team Evil!
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2012-11-25, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Could you find some really.
..really..
..expensive water, fashion it into a solid, possibly very cold, cube...
..do the magic stuff..
..and then throw it into the sea?
The molecules that constitute your phylactery will now spread out into the water of the world.
Hang on. It the item/object the key thing? I.E does it have to be a 'noun', which seemingly could comprise of different stuff, such as metal, stone and wood.
If can be an 'object', which could comprise of multiple materials, why not make the infrastructure - roads/aqueducts/plumbing - of your nation your phylactery?
I'm a little confuzzled to how a combination of one set of materials is being considered to be a single 'whole' while a combination of the another set of materials - on a larger scale - isn't be considered a single whole.
-.o Bugger it. I cast it on the King's bladder stone.
Then I cast Enlarge (Bladder Stone).
Because.
Last edited by O.L.Scudmungus; 2012-11-25 at 02:44 PM.
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2012-11-25, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Go to hell steal the devils spellbook, get out of hell polymorph your soul into that book with all its texts and everything the same as before. Go back to hell act like you are trying to kill him and try reading from " the fake " spellbook, he attacks you drop it and teleport out. Lets see someone go through all the nine hells to get it. And on the plus side you have all the magic spells he has now.
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2012-11-25, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: lich phylactery
Well, it has to be Tiny. A city's infrastructure is probably a bit bigger than that.
Venger's talking about the real Pelor. A hallow spell would be a bit out of place in his church.Last edited by Amidus Drexel; 2012-11-25 at 04:53 PM.
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2012-11-25, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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