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Thread: Rules Questions
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2008-08-16, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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- Tennessee
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Re: Rules Questions
The Giant posted this a while ago in response to a question about sending V's raven to grab a loot in another room.
I am very, very, super sorry if this has been addressed before now, but 8 pages is a lot to read through.
If V sends his raven to grab a loot in a room with Elan and Belkar present, and Blackwing draws a loot that is a single-target trap, who does the trap target?
I presume it targets Blackwing the Raven, and has no effect, but is there an official ruling somewhere?
EDIT: Also, the FAQ currently states that monsters cannot provide support for more than one monster in the same room, in an effort to cut down on horde size.
The rule as stated is that the monster closest to the top receives the support. In the case of Battle Size it does not matter, but in the case of receiving bonuses to Attack and Defense, do lower monsters inherit the support if the higher monster is killed?
Example: Goblin A gains support from other goblins in the form of +2 Attack and Defense, and is played first. Goblin B also gains support in the same way, but is played second, and therefore does not gain the support from other goblins. Goblins C-Z are played afterwards turning Goblin A into one bad dude. One of the PCs takes out Goblin A. Does Goblin B now gain the support since he's at the top of the stack?Last edited by FreeloadingSausage; 2008-08-16 at 08:46 PM.
"The men below this deck are no longer combatants, and neither will you be."
- Jan Vekk von Larsfolk
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(Signature image by Kalirush)
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2008-08-17, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Argentina
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Re: Rules Questions
solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2008-08-18, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Rules Questions
Yes, according to the FAQ: "Should the Woodcutter be defeated, all monsters that were supporting the Woodcutter are now free to immediately support the next monster in the stack, the Teenagers."
I believe there's a mistake in the following example in the FAQ, though: "Player 4 plays Demon Roach. Demon Roach supports Demon Roach King, not Orc Summoner, because Demon Roach King is closer to the top of the stack." This wouldn't happen, since Demon Roach King immediately moves to the bottom of the stack when played.
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2008-08-28, 11:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
Durkon's shtick Goblinthwacker... does it let him attack goblins just outside of his normal range with Thor's Hammer?
Zoit! Avatar by Cult_of_the_Raven.
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2008-08-29, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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2008-09-11, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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Re: Rules Questions
Hi! I bought the game a few weeks ago and have played it a fair few times since then (the joys of being a student and in the summer holidays...) A few questions have come up though, so I was wondering if anyone could give me an official ruling or at least an alternative interpretation on them? If anyone's interested, I've put the interpretations of me and my friends in italics after the questions.
Firstly, Haley's shtick "Secret Crush" - what happens if Elan's an NPC? Does it work so long as she's on the floor that Elan as an NPC is (pretty powerful in a 2 player game, where both players tend to be on the same floor)? Or does it only work if Nale's on the same floor? We decided (through roll of the dice) that it didn't work for NPC Elan, making it, TBH, a fairly useless schtick if Elan's not being played.
Also, her "Disarm Traps" - when disarming, you get +4 to your roll; does this also cumulate with other things for evading traps? If so and you get it with both The Stick loot and Good Reflexes schtick, you've got +8 on trying to disarm traps; pretty good odds... We decided that one could work and one couldn't; I can't remember which way round but I think it might have been "Good Reflexes" stacked (since reflexes are good for disarming traps) but The Stick didn't.
V's "Ambiguous Gender" - does this have to happen whenever you're attacked (and have the schtick in play)? Or can you choose to not let it happen, say if you thought you had a reasonable chance of winning? And if it does come into effect, could you still play "Saw it Coming" first if you had it? I'd imagine "Ambiguous Gender" has to be used whenever you're attacked, regardless of desire, and there's no text to say you can flip it when you want; however, since the player's already attacked you you could use "Saw it Coming" first, then play out "Ambiguous Gender".
Elan's "Gratuitous Nudity" - I know that in the FAQ it says when he flips it he has to close his own eyes, but I'd question that personally...the idea is by being naked, no-one (except Haley) wants to look so they close their eyes; why would Elan close his? If it weren't for the Haley exception, I'd agree with Elan closing his eyes as well, but as it is... Also, it says it counts as a boost for his "Hide" shtick. Is that whenever it's in play? Or is it any point in the turn when it's flipped (the monsters close their eyes too)? Or just the first battle? I'd imagine from the way everything else works, it would boost "Hide" so long as it is unflipped...but that seems somewhat counter-intuitive...
That'll do for the moment! I'll probably be back to ask for more later, but any answers to the above would be great. It's a fantastic game though, so long as you've got the time to play it!
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2008-09-11, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
Hey there! As a fellow gamer i'll say what i have been ruling on the subject.
In our games we made no distinction about it, she always gets the bonus as long as she is on the same floor as Elan (PC or NPC).
Also, her "Disarm Traps" - when disarming, you get +4 to your roll; does this also cumulate with other things for evading traps?
V's "Ambiguous Gender" - does this have to happen whenever you're attacked (and have the schtick in play)? Or can you choose to not let it happen, say if you thought you had a reasonable chance of winning? And if it does come into effect, could you still play "Saw it Coming" first if you had it? I'd imagine "Ambiguous Gender" has to be used whenever you're attacked, regardless of desire, and there's no text to say you can flip it when you want; however, since the player's already attacked you you could use "Saw it Coming" first, then play out "Ambiguous Gender".
About having to use it, I'd follow the same guidelines as most other shticks have (specially Roy's 'Fearless Leader' or Durkon's 'Clank clank clank'). If it is not flipped, it is in use. To not use it, it should be flipped. If it is not indicated in the card that you can flip it,then you can't and have to use it when it's played.
Elan's "Gratuitous Nudity" - I know that in the FAQ it says when he flips it he has to close his own eyes, but I'd question that personally...the idea is by being naked, no-one (except Haley) wants to look so they close their eyes; why would Elan close his? If it weren't for the Haley exception, I'd agree with Elan closing his eyes as well, but as it is...
Also, it says it counts as a boost for his "Hide" shtick. Is that whenever it's in play? Or is it any point in the turn when it's flipped (the monsters close their eyes too)? Or just the first battle? I'd imagine from the way everything else works, it would boost "Hide" so long as it is unflipped...but that seems somewhat counter-intuitive...solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2008-10-10, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Rules Questions
Is it possible to remove the "Xykon" special ability from Xykon using the "I forgot they could do that" card?
It sounds pretty silly at first but the rules doesn't forbid it, from what i can tell. This came up in the last game we played and after a good laugh we decided that yes, its possible to remove the "xykon" ability, which postpones the destruction of the dungeon by one turn if he is defeated (when IFTCDT is no longer i effect). What's the official ruling?
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2008-10-10, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Rules Questions
I suspect it's not meant to be removable. As you say, it's allowed by a strict reading of the rules, but I think that's probably a mistake in the rules. The Giant or apegamer would have to give the official word, though.
we decided that yes, its possible to remove the "xykon" ability, which postpones the destruction of the dungeon by one turn if he is defeated (when IFTCDT is no longer i effect).
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2008-10-11, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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2008-10-11, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
Well, in this case i agree that we need the word of the creators. But judging from what you propose i wouldn't allow it in my games for how abusable it can be. Roy and V can get an IFTCDT for that battle using the Sarcastic Quip Loot and could attempt to do this every game.
As an argument i would propose that it can't be affected by Screw This! card because it's a "Special" ability, not a normal one.solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2008-10-31, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Rules Questions
Hi, I just had the Screw This! card "I forgot they could do that" used to negate Xycon's Xycon ability. Our GM looked over the rules and after some laughs decided it wasn't forbidden by the game. But really then the game was broken. Without Xycon's ability the game doesn't end. It's what makes the dungeon collapse. Really it was only used to take the points I'd get from killing him. But looking into it further we decided the game couldn't end. Dan was declared the winner for managing to break the game. We made this account to see if something has been said about this rule.
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2008-11-08, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Canada, ON
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Re: Rules Questions
I have a Ranged attack question because it seems to me the rules aren't too clear on this.
If a player (say V w/a fireball) makes a ranged attack from 2 rooms away on an enemy and V loses the roll. does V take a wound for losing or because it's a ranged attack there's is no bad result for suffering defeat?
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2008-11-09, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Rules Questions
If the defender has sufficent range to reach the attacker, then the attacker gets wounded. (Or, if the defender is another player, it's the defender's shtick's result, which may or may not be a wound.) If the defender doesn't have enough range to reach the attacker, then the attacker is safe. See the rulebook, page 12, under "Ranged Defense".
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2008-12-06, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
Further question about Goblinthwacker. Can you also use it to attack goblins further down in the stack just outside the normal range for Thor's Hammer? For example, if your hammer has a range of 2, and three rooms away, there's a stack with, in order, a Crunchy Taco Golem (Food type) and a Goblin with an Eel Biting It On The Nose (Goblin type), can you hit the goblin with the golem there, or do you have to destroy the golem first in some other fashion?
Zoit! Avatar by Cult_of_the_Raven.
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2008-12-06, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Rules Questions
No mechanism in the game lets you skip the top monster in a stack to battle one underneath it.
The boost effect on Thor's Hammer does include extending its range, so if there's a Goblin at the top of a stack that's three rooms away, and Goblinthwacker would boost your range up to 3, then you can battle that Goblin.
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2008-12-22, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- st. louis
Re: Rules Questions
This was already asked ....
Originally Posted by Moebius
More questions about Area Effect Shticks...
Can you Defend against multiple monsters with Turn Undead or Poorly-Planned Illusion? The only other AES (so far), Fireball, has N/A for Defense, but those two have a value. Turn Undead is actually better in Defense than Attack.
Yes, you can Defend using an Area Effect Shtick, if the shtick has a value for Defense. This would happen if you walk into a room of Monsters, or if you are attacked at Range by a Monster via the "Ambush!" Screw This! card.
but my question was, when denfending with an area of effect do you select the highest attacking value in the stack like you would if for defense if you were attacking?
Also I saw this asked and didnt see an answer, but it happened in our first game:
A question came up last night regarding the "Ghost of Dorukan" card in the Xykon's Lair deck in conjunction with Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion schtick. The wording on the "Ghost of Dorukan" card specifies that the boon is granted to the player who "kills the last monster in the room." In this case, Elan had killed the first monster he faced out of four in the room with a different battle schtick, but then used Poorly-Planned Illusion to move the rest of the monsters to another room.
While it seems to me to make sense that Elan get the boon, the wording on the card would imply otherwise. Should the card say "defeats" instead of "kills"? Does the Ghost stay put until a new battle in the room is triggered and the new "last" monster in the room is actually killed? Or is there some other interpretation I'm missing? Elan DID kill a monster, but at the time he killed it, it wasn't the last one in the room. The last monster in the room wasn't killed, but moved to a different room. Thanks in advance!
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2008-12-22, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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2009-01-31, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Denmark
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Re: Rules Questions
------------------------------
If there's a battle going on, and for some reason you don't defeat it and it's still in the room (hide shtick fx), can I then just flee the monster when it's my turn next? Or do someone else need to defeat the monster beofre I can go awaySpoilerSpoilerYou never know, when to know that it would be good knowing, that if you didn't know, you would not be knowing at allSpoiler-Thanks Calamity for allowing me to adapt Mr. Scuffy He really serves as a good avatar
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2009-01-31, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Argentina
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Re: Rules Questions
solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2009-02-23, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Rules Questions
The Broken Weapon Screw This: If I use Broken Weapon to, say, break Roy's Greenhilt Sword, and he trades in monsters for a schtick and chooses another copy of Greenhilt Sword, does it come into play flipped or not?
Creative Motivation: If I use Creative Motivation to ask Elan for help, do I get the bonus from Bard Song?
I'm guessing Roy's Fearless Leader ability can only give the positive effect (heal 1 Wound or unflip 1 Schtick) on a per-battle basis, not a per-Loot-card basis. Is that right?
If you're attacked while resting or missing a turn, can you use Battle Schticks to defend yourself and potentially inflict damage?
Relatedly, if you're attacked and dealt damage you still get the benefits of resting, right?Last edited by Frogwarrior; 2009-02-23 at 05:16 PM.
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2009-02-26, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
As the card is written, you can draw and play new copies of the same shtick but you can't unflip them until you reach the entrance; but here it could collide RAW with RAI. So, as long as there is no clarification i'd say play it as RAW.
Creative Motivation: If I use Creative Motivation to ask Elan for help, do I get the bonus from Bard Song?
I'm guessing Roy's Fearless Leader ability can only give the positive effect (heal 1 Wound or unflip 1 Schtick) on a per-battle basis, not a per-Loot-card basis. Is that right?
If you're attacked while resting or missing a turn, can you use Battle Schticks to defend yourself and potentially inflict damage?
Relatedly, if you're attacked and dealt damage you still get the benefits of resting, right?solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2009-03-01, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Rules Questions
Just bought this game and played it for the first time with some friends, awesome game, but I had one question that I couldn't find an answer for anywhere.
When using passive non-battle shticks, is there any limit to the number that apply, if they can apply? I've found nothing in the rules, only that you can only use one battle shtick at a time.
The situation we're running into is specifically with leaping attack. With two in play one is boosted to +2 attack and +2 range, but there's nothing that says the other isn't boosted and used as well, resulting in +4 attack +4 range, for a range 4 attack 7 twin daggers of doom. With 3 leaps in play this jumps up to a 12 attack at 9 range before counting any equipped loot, with ring of jumping(?) making it a 15 attack at 12 range, the best attack I've seen in the game.
This is pretty nasty, so I'm assuming it goes against the spirit of the rules, but there's no rule we could find, unless we missed it digging through the rules and errata about 4 times, that keeps passive non-battle shticks from going up exponentially rather than linearly.
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2009-03-01, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Rules Questions
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2009-03-01, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Rules Questions
There's actually nothing anywhere in the rules or errata, unless it's not in a section about schticks, that says anything that would imply they aren't seperate shticks. It simply states that a shtick is boosted once for every shtick with the same name you have in play that is face-up and since all copies of Leaping Attack are face up they should all boost each other. If I'm missing something that is actually in the rules please list a page so I can reference.
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2009-03-01, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2009-03-01, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Rules Questions
Meh, clear? No, that's vague at best, it's specifically referencing a battle schtick, and only says that the extra copies boost the first, not that they can't be used, they simply can't in that scenario since only one battle schtick can be used at a time. The only reference to multiples of a passive schtick is the bard song at the end of the comic, and again, that's vague at best on how they work. I'm sticking with the extras do nothing but boost, but I was hoping for something more clear cut than "you might want to go tell Elan all about that... He just drew his fourth Bard Song shtick" especially since there's nothing to that effect in the actual rules text.
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2009-03-01, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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Re: Rules Questions
You know, you asked for a reference, there are more appropriate answers than "Meh" when you don't like what was offered. Still, it does answer your question.
Since you have only 1 Twin Daggers of Doom (boosted by having 2 shticks, like the comics says) the benefit of Leaping Attack applies only once. You don't have 2 TDoD but 1 boosted, therefore you can only apply any bonus to the one you have.
Even in the scenario you described, you would be applying the boost to both TDoD but you can only use one of them for battles, so there is no way to add it up.solo tú sabes bien quien soy y por eso es tuyo mi corazón
AKA Yakkul
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2009-03-01, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Rules Questions
Actually it doesn't clearly answer my question, since Twin Daggers of Doom isn't boosted by Leaping Attack, LA just says TDoD gains +1 range and +1 attack. The only thing being boosted is the LAs but since they're not a battle schtick, or one that is flipped to trigger like Halfling Rage, there are no rules specifically stating that they don't all trigger, merely the vague reference in the comic, which points clearly towards the rule on battle schticks and brushes up against the rules for passive schticks, hence the "meh." I'm not sure I'm following your example, but nowhere did I apply LA to more than one TDoD, I just applied all of the LAs to one TDoD, which is the very action in question.
The simplest, and most balanced, interpretation is that yes, all copies of a schtick beyond the first are absorbed by the first original as a boost, but the only clear example of this is with a battle schtick, which already uses slightly different rules than other schticks. So, as I've already stated, I agree this is how it should work, even though I think it leaves Belkar a little underpowered, versus being overpowered, but that's a different matter, but I would like a definite reference that the rule does in fact work this way, and your reference, as stated, was vague in my opinion. Maybe you don't agree, and I do appreciate your, and all other, helpful attempts to clarify, but when I was looking for something clear cut and I get something vague, "meh" is the lackluster, "I'm unconvinced" kind of response I'm going to give, sorry if that particular onomatopoeia insulted you, never thought I'd use that word in a sentence.
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2009-03-02, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Rules Questions
You're right that there's no explicit, unambiguous statement in the rules that limits it to one (plus boosts). But it seems clear enough that that's the intent. If you look through the past messages in this thread, there might be something from apegamer or TheGiant that would confirm it - probably not explicitly, but they might have given an example that fits this interpretation only.
If this was different for battle vs. non-battle shticks, that would certainly merit an explicit mention, and there isn't any. Leaping Attack, Great Cleavage, Sneak Attack, and especially Bard Song would be rather overpowered if each one counted independently as well as boosting all the others. Great Cleavage is arguably overpowered already.
It could make for an interesting variation, though, if we throw in something to help V and Durkon stay competitive. Elan would need some help too, though, since inflating the power of Bard Song only helps the people he assists, not him.