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2011-09-11, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Raleigh, NC
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2011-09-12, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
And, overall, it is a simple but effective way to make casters stronger... Beside think about a battle: 1000 people vs 1000 people. I would mean what every 6 seconds 100 people drop the weapon, fall down, ... assuming only one attack.
If your DM do this, speak friendly with him. If he does not understand go Archivist or Wizard.
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2011-09-12, 03:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
There are all kinds of idiotic houserules. Critical fumbles are but one type. ^^
Anyway, 'nuther well-known WotC blunder, listed for the sake of completeness:
Martial Adepts' Stance Progression.
A straight Warblade gains access to a 5th-level class feature (level 3 stance) only at level 10. A multiclassed Warblade/X gets it by level 6.
(At least this is easily fixed by delaying the 2nd stance by one level. For Crusaders it's a lot more difficult, their progression is a lot more fouled up.)Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2011-09-12, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
On a related note, is there any reason to take Crusader 20? The 'capstone' is pathetic, and the whole messed up stance progression system means no access to 8th-level stances. Which is mind-numbingly stupid, to put it bluntly, since they can't take Immortal Fortitude without multiclassing, despite it being the Crusaders' signature stance.
I mean, aside from the whole "better than Fighter 20" thingy, of course.
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2011-09-12, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Well, _technically_ they could gain the stance by buying it as Feat on level 15. But of course, being forced to a) waste a Stance on level 14 for something that's long outdated and b) expend a Feat to gain access to a class feature is both, as you put it, mind-numbingly stupid.
I recommend giving both Crusader and Warblade the same Stance progression, with stances gained at levels 1, 5, 10 and 15. Simple as that.
As for your question, if for some unfathomable reason ;) you think that +1 to attack and damage for one round is not worth 4-5 levels, and considering you only have access to three 9th level maneuvers, no, there's not really any good reason to go Crs 20. Ah yes, you also get an extra maneuver granted, but well... all of that isn't exactly a great Capstone. (Although better than what a Rogue gets, haha)Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2011-09-12, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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2011-09-12, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Kansas
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2011-09-12, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-09-12, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Ponyville
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2011-09-12, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2011-09-12, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
The only good thing about not having a real capstone, as a Crusader, is that if your DM doesn't allow you a sensible stance progression, you have a strong motivation to take 6 levels of melee dips to get Thicket of Blades around your 5th IL.
Either that, or just play the damn RKV
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2011-09-12, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- Tx
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2011-09-12, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Have you ever seen RotW's Halfling Rogue? At 1st level, your ranged sneak attack is +1d6 and your melee sneak attack is +0. At 20th level, your ranged sneak attack is +10d6 and your melee sneak attack is +9d6. I'm pretty sure they meant for ranged to be +2d6 and melee to be +0, and then at 20th level for ranged to be +11d6 and melee to be +9d6.
Oh, and the entire mechanics for Jump and Carrying Capacities bother me.
According to the Carrying Capacities chart my Strength is between 16 and 20.
I have made DC 32 jumps and can reproduce the feat.Jude P.
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2011-09-12, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
As an avid power lifter I can relate to this one. It's almost like the game designers didn't have a lot of experience with picking up heavy things and putting them back down again.
As far as other rules that don't really work go, a Monk 1/Anything 19 with the Superior Unarmed Strike feat does damage as a 5th level monk, rather than using the SUS table.
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2011-09-12, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Jude P.
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2011-09-12, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Er... because basic motor functions don't translate that well to other contexts. Here's proof.
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2011-09-12, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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2011-09-12, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- Chicago, IL
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2011-09-12, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Showing real courage! Everyone is a winner!
...but obviously that would make you a "blind quadriplegic" then, since you can't do a simple thing like coordinate leg muscles the way most of us do automatically every day... right?
D&D is not that much of a real-world simulation. There's simulationist elements, but really it's a game, and the carrying rules straddle that line between the two. Even as they stand, they're complicated enough that most people don't even both with them except in emergencies. And if you made them more realistic, they'd almost certainly get more complicated, not less. I'm willing to accept a moderate loss in realism in order to expedite gameplay.Last edited by sonofzeal; 2011-09-12 at 12:21 PM.
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2011-09-12, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Oddly enough, they're actually not too bad at calculating the load you could hold over your head.
The world record standing military press weight is 535 pounds. The world record clean and jerk weight is 580 pounds. Per D&D rules, you can lift up to your maximum load over your head. For both of those weights, you end up with a Strength of 23 (using the PF chart).
If you start with 20 STR (18 + racial modifier), a 1st level barbarian could hit that number while raging.
The same calculations would put me at a strength of around 14, if you go by the largest number for "hold over head" weight and equate that to max standing military press.
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2011-09-12, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
The problem is the rule that knowing about a monster or being able to identify it has a DC based on the monster HD. THAT was stupid, people may never have seen a red dragon, but the average commoner 1 in D&D land probably knows that red dragons are evil and breath fire, and he can identify the great wyrm red as bad news without ever spending 20+ skill ranks on knowledge arcana.
Similarly, the odds are he can identify a HUMAN without needing to train a specific skill, but RAW this is a DC 11 knowledge check and hence can't be done untrained.
Knowledge devotion may well be fine, I have no opinion, but it is in fact stupid that your knowledge can give you a bonus against things you can't identify, but then identifing well known stuff (like cows and people) should be trivial and most people should be able to figure out that the big red flying reptile may be a red dragon and maybe breaths fire without needing to make a DC 42 or whatever knowledge check.
Gods help you if you need to identify a god. What's the knowledge DC to figure out that the guy who looks JUST LIKE the statue in your temple and is glowing like the sun may be Pelor or someone pretending to be Pelor.
One skill rank is enough to learn a profession well enough to earn a good living at it, one skill rank grants fluency with a language, two skill ranks is enough to be the difference between pretender no real chance and a likely olympic champion at something like the high jump.
One skill rank should be enough to bloody well MEMORIZE information equivalent to every monster manual ever printed for any edition of this game, because that's far less information than one language or profession. Sorting out the truth from myth may need more ranks, but the monster knowledge DCs are absurd.
DougLLast edited by Doug Lampert; 2011-09-12 at 12:57 PM.
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2011-09-12, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- The Land of the Cats
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
It's harder to identify a Warhorse than a Blink Dog.
A Huge Air Elemental is harder to identify than a Small Air Elemental.
An Elephant is harder to identify (and know details about) than a Pixie.
Of course, when I'm playing or running a game, we have situational modifiers... Very rare creatures, or creatures with multiple templates, apply a penalty to the Knowledge Devotion roll.
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2011-09-12, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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2011-09-12, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
What about spear-fishing?
Jude P.
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2011-09-12, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I prefer Crusader 11/Swordsage 2 or Warblade 2/Master of Nine 5 increasing Crusader progression. You can time it right to get a Devoted Spirit 6th level stance at 2nd level Master of Nine. I'm partial to Aura of Perfect Order.
Anyway, Celestial Mystics have as a prerequisite Vow Of Abstinance, meaning they can't drink alcoholic beverages. Identify has a material component of an owl feather in wine that must be drunk. Celestial Mystics are forbidden to cast Identify.
If you roll 26 on the random traits table for NPCs, you're screwed. (On purpose though, see #100.)
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2011-09-12, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2011-09-12, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2011-09-12, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Oolitic, IN
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2011-09-12, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I can't speak for traditional spear fishing, but a modern spear gun is kind of like an industrial murder slingshot.
My man concern about the harpoons is that a full sized harpoon is heavy. They're also aerodynamic (hydrodynamic) enough that you would think that they could do damage at the first range increment, at least.
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2011-09-12, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection