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2012-05-24, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Dorn and Fulgrim call out Curze for War Crimes. Curze is imprisoned on the Phalanx. He subsequently Batmans his way out ('Batman' is a verb now). Curze attempts to kill Dorn. Dorn doesn't fight back. He is only saved by Sigismund. The Dark King.
It is unclear how far Fulgrim is along in his particular journey at this point.
Curze is the only thing in the galaxy that Dorn is afraid of. Because there is no reason to his actions. Dorn starts to wonder what it would take for him to turn against Dad, and he begins to accept that his brothers might not be his brothers anymore. Becoming resolute they they aren't his brothers anymore in Deliverance Lost.
3- During the Drop site massacre he fights Corax forcing him to flee?
Otherwise, I have nothing to add.
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2012-05-24, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I believe it depends on the version of chainsword. Some are essentially weaponised chainsaws, with the teeth rotating round the blade constantly, while others just oscillate the teeth back and forth to achieve the same cutting effect.
As for the actual thing that makes them move, probably a motor, with possibly a fan belt for the first version.
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2012-05-24, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Didn't see this post.
Is there anywhere I can find out about this star child theory? I keep finding mentions of it but no actual explanation.
Would it be killing the emperor if the star child theory is true, turning off the machine? I doubt the theorists believe it is.
Where can I find super-marines? Are they somewhere between Primarchs and Terminators?
...Then bad stuff happens.
Also, Terminators are just regular Marines with better armour.
So, all sorcerers are psykers, all psykers are psychics? But not all psychics are psykers or sorcerers?
The RPGs (Dark Heresy and similar) make a distinction similar to Spontaneous and Memorising Casters from D&D. Sorcery must be learned, from books and knowledge from tutors and Pacts with Daemons. Often from forbidden texts. As 'Joe Imperial' should not be allowed to learn sorcery, as he doesn't have the knowledge to use it properly and shouldn't deal with daemons..
Psykery is something you're born with, and mastery of the warp is done through willpower alone. If you're good at Psykery, picking up Sorcery is easier than if you weren't a psyker.
I though they were different because in 40K, nurture trumps nature?
Also, to add a bit on, what is it in Chainswords that makes the blade spin? Since I don't think it says anywhere.
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2012-05-25, 01:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
My extended signature.
Thanks to the wonderful Ceika for my signature.
I have Steam cards and other stuff! I am selling/trading them.
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2012-05-25, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Damn right.
Spoiler
Also, Re: Starchild... some of the stuff is considered canon, but it may or may not be considered true. They are theories that Inquisitors and similar have. I believe the Thorian Sourcebook is still available on the GW website, for instance. It never states that it's either right or wrong, which is how I like things. It also makes it somewhat confusing about whether or not Thorians are Puritans or Radicals.
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2012-05-25, 05:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Princess in the streets.
Princess in the sheets.
Don't touch me I'm royalty.
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2012-05-25, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-25, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
What are the limits on time displacement due to Warp travel?
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2012-05-25, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-25, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The warp is inherently chaotic and unpredicatable, it can theoretically acheive anything at all, so there is no absolute limit at all to how far back it could send you.
Theoretically.
In practice though it'd take a ridiculous quantity (even by 40k standards) of energy to power, and would be about as accurate as warp travel without a navigator. And that's presuming the Chaos Gods (read: Tzeentch) would tollerate you to going back in the first place.
Pretty much the only thing Warp Strom powered time travel is good for is amusing antics, driving Farseers insane, and getting the heroes there on time no matter how long they spend faffing about on route.
It also helps excuse the rubbish GW passes off as a timeline of events. Seriously, could someone please explain to me in detail when the Eldar Empire was around please? It always seems to clash with the Pre-Emps Human galactic civilisation. Everytime I try and work it out, Slaanesh ends up being born at the same time the Iron-Men are rebelling for some reason...
Anyway, back to time travel. The only time I can remember that someone went back and achieved anything they wanted to out of it, was an Ork Warboss (one of my favoirite stories). His Waaaargh! fell through (read: piloted into screaming joyously) a Warp Storm, and found itself several years in the past. Realising what had happened (I think they ended up at a war they'd already fought), the Boss invaded his own planet, had his Waaargh! attack itself, and dueled himself to the death... so he could have two copies of his favoirite gun.
Oh yeah, and for some reason Matt Ward thought letting Necron SCIENCE! have access to reliable time travel was cool though. Of course it was only one dude who got it, and he is their End-Game-Win-Condition, Orikan the Diviner.Last edited by Voidhawk; 2012-05-25 at 09:48 AM.
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2012-05-25, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
To expand on this, the main issues with Orikan's time travel are twofold; One, the unintended consequences of his meddling are often disastrous (In order to ensure one of his prophecies was fulfilled, he went back in time and had a Silver Skulls taskforce ambushed to ensure they wouldn't show up at the battle he predicted his current overlord would win. It worked... But the retaliatory strike from the angry Silver Skulls left the tomb world in ruins), and he's embroiled in some sort of shenanigans that he needs kept secret*... And the revelation that he has access to even a semi-reliable time travel method would draw way too much attention.
*It's deliberately ambiguous right now what Orikan is up to, but his empowered stat line is suspiciously identical to that of a C'tan shard.
In other news, the second Ultramarines Omnibuswas released recently*checks* Err... It's still only available for Advance Order on the GW website. Does this mean someone screwed up and put it out for purchase early at the store I got it from?
Anyway, Killing Ground was a fun read.Last edited by Squark; 2012-05-25 at 10:13 AM.
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2012-05-25, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-25, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Not that they're Raven Guard; more to do with it being Corax - a Primarch - attempting to take the Emperor's work and alter it for his own ends. It's nothing to do with genetics, just the simple fact that Corax (or, arguably, anyone else since) was not as good a geneticist as the Emperor.
Is psykery and being a psychic the same thing?
Being able to read minds or predict the future, means that you must be a psyker (or, in far, far more rare circumstances, receiving a vision directly from the Emperor). Not all Psykers are able to read minds or predict the future, however.
Originally Posted by Voidhawk
Presumably, the turmoil in the Warp that closed off the proto-Imperium from it's frontiers was caused by Slaanesh being 'formed', and afterwards - with the generated power spent and the danger concentrated into one small area - the Warp calmed and the Emperor was able to make his move.~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2012-05-25, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The pre-Fall Eldar Empire was largely where the Eye of Terror is now... which is a different part of space to pre-Unification Mankind's galactic civilisation.
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2012-05-25, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I think the original explanation was that the warp storms were caused by the Eldar (either due to them surpressing their emotions in the original version or by their excesses in the current version). Wiping out most of the Eldar is what carmed it down.
Sometimes Slaanesh is blamed but the sort of Jungian combined psychic unconciousness of the pre-fall Eldar and the embyronic form of Slaanesh are pretty much the same thing.
Even now Slaanesh still isn't fully detatched from the Eldar, hence the soulstones and the Dark Eldar having to top themselves up as their souls naturally get pulled into Slaanesh.
The height of the Eldar and the Dark Age of Technology were more or less concurrent. The Iron Men thing happened way before the birth of Slaanesh. Since as I say above, the fall into decadence of the Eldar caused the warp storms that cut off terra, so the Human and Eldar golden ages end at pretty much the same time, though its a bit less dramatic in the Eldar case as its more of a cultural decline than everything suddenly going bad.
15th millenium
Dark Age of Technology starts, humans colonise the galaxy and have the iron men as their army
25th millenium
Warp storms start to rise, ending the Dark Age of Technology and causing the Age of Strife. The Iron men have already been discontinued by this point.
30th millenium
Fall of Eldar, birth of Slaanesh, Eye of Terror forms. Great Crusade begins.
41st millenium
Current timeframe.Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2012-05-25 at 05:33 PM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2012-05-25, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
What page? The timeline I have only goes back to M18 and the Dark Age of Technology.
No. Corax did absolutely everything perfectly. If you have any questions, read the blurb for Deliverance Lost, there's a massive spoiler right there on the back of the book which I complained about when the book was released...Which I was right to complain about, because what I predicted because of what the back of the book happened, happened.
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2012-05-26, 04:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
WAY back in 3rd/4th edition, at the back of the book there was a large box of text that thanked various people on behalf of the authors, along with a few design notes that readers might've found interesting.
On the page under that box - which was literally overlapping the text, not just placed in a seperate paragraph at the top of the page - there is an In Universe document written by an Imperial Scribe whose family has spent umpteen generations researching the life and origins of the Emperor.
The document is mostly obscured by the Designer's Notes box and a large red stamp from the Inquisition, declaring it to be Heresy of the highest order and all people involved were burned for their works, however if you look hard enough you can still make out a few details that have never before - or since - been stated as canon.
The Emperor is, apparently, Turkish. For example.
No. Corax did absolutely everything perfectly. If you have any questions, read the blurb for Deliverance Lost, there's a massive spoiler right there on the back of the book which I complained about when the book was released...Which I was right to complain about, because what I predicted because of what the back of the book happened, happened.
Having said that, it does explain perfectly why Corax murdered everyone, rather than employ them as expendable Shock troops, Death Company-style....~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2012-05-26, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Super-duper Deliverance Lost spoilers...That you probably guessed just by reading the back of the book.
SpoilerDue to the edict of Nikea (psykers no psyking!), Alpha Legion are able to infiltrate multiple Legions. Due to entire Chapters of Legions being separated during the Istvaan massacre, Alpha Legion basically insert themselves into the Raven Guard Legion. It's unclear how they actually do this...But it's handwaved along that Alpha Legion still use psychic powers to implant dead or dying Raven Guard personalities, memories and facial features onto Alpha Legionaries.
We're finally given a very brief example of what happens when a Marine eats something to gain its memories.
Alpha Legion 'Raven Guard' are taken by Corax to Terra. And we're not told until very late in the book who the Infiltrators are (I'll leave that part spoiler-free). Since it's all told from their point of view, and they all refer to themselves as Alpharius...Which does get really confusing, but, on some level, I can see how that may be the point...
Where they find out what Corax has been given, they simultaneously set out to wreck it and take it. Obviously if the formula was in the hands of someone...Say...That Emperor's Children fellow, Apothecary Fabius...The heretic side of the war could do great things...
Wait...None of that is in Lexicanum. Gav Thorpe is obscure. Nevermind. None of it happened. Right? Right?
EDIT: I think the interesting part about a lot of the Loyalist side books, is how pretty much all of them, at some point, make an issue of bringing back psykers, regardless of what the Emperor says.
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2012-05-26, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
The Emperor is, apparently, Turkish. For example.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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2012-05-26, 06:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Only if he was born after 1100 AD. Wasn't any large population of Turks in anatolia until after the mongols and their opponents brought them in as mercenaries.
One of the ancient peoples of Anatolia were the hittites who left
this symbol around asia minor.
In Realm of Chaos, which is full of a lot of stuff that is no longer cannon like 'daemons cannot leave the warp without a material body to possess'.Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2012-05-26 at 06:24 AM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2012-05-26, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Literally, you are correct. Anatolia is the archaic name for what we now call Asia Minor, which corresponds to the area between the Black, Mediterranean and Aegean Seas.
Which, strictly speaking, just means "Eastern Turkey". I was paraphrasing.
As to whether or not it was 'confirmered'..... Go figure.
The only document I know that states it outright, is 2 editions old, was IC declared Hereticus Extremis by the Inquisition, and is part of a greater text that says that only the Emperor knows the literal truth because He spent the first thirty thousand years of his life living in secrecy and what the contemporary 41st millenium knows is just rumour and folklore.
Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton
In which case, the answer is no - He was apparently born sometime in the 8th millenium B.C. and as such is pre-Hittite by a LONG shot; barely more than a prehistoric tribesman.
Turkish by region, if not ethnicity.
Originally Posted by Cheesegear
SpoilerDuring this period, do you perceive that the Alpha Legion are depicted as 'evil' in what they do?
A lot of the history I've read - haven't yet got around to the Horus Heresy novels - depicts the Alpha Legion as teacherous back-stabbers, but some others more than imply that the Legion isn't just doing it for fun and are committing terrible acts in the name of a bigger goal.
What do you think? Are they genuine Traitors, or are they on their own side and just got lumped in with the loonies because they wouldn't openly support the Loyalists?
EDIT: I think the interesting part about a lot of the Loyalist side books, is how pretty much all of them, at some point, make an issue of bringing back psykers, regardless of what the Emperor says.
- Emperor forbids Psykery at Nikea.
- The Alpha Legion decide that this is a stupid idea, and starts up a scheme of guerilla warfare that provides a long list of reasons as to why Psykers are necessary.
- The Loyalists look at all these reasons, and slowly justify to themselves a way to get around (or just ignore) the edict.
- The Alpha Legion enacts.... something, that requires a lot of Psykers "for the good of the Imperium/For the lulz of Chaos".
- The Black Templars go apesh*t and kill everyone, ever.
....I have to say, the Black Templars are probably my favourite Chapter for all sorts of reasons, not just that one.~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
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2012-05-26, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Here's a question that has been rattling around in my head since I first heard about this. (I have not read Deliverance Lost, so maybe it is addressed there...)
Spoiler
If AL is infiltrating other Legions, wouldn't their armor give them away? They would either have to find dead Loyalists of approximately the same size as the infiltrators, or paint their own armor. Both of those would take time, and why would AL even have paint to match other legions anyway?Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2012-05-26, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
See; Legion. IMO, I'm not sure if Alpharius is being duped. But he's doing a lot of wrong things for the right reasons. In Deliverance Lost he recognises Erebus for what he is, and refuses to let Erebus speak to Horus for that particular scene.
- The Loyalists look at all these reasons, and slowly justify to themselves a way to get around (or just ignore) the edict.
- The Alpha Legion enacts.... something, that requires a lot of Psykers "for the good of the Imperium/For the lulz of Chaos".
Daemons are involved in the Battle of Calth. And Guilliman tells his psykers to suit up near the end. Otherwise the planet was going to poop. And Guilliman says the first thing he's going to do when he gets back is get rid of the edict.
Timeline-wise, Garro is set near the end of the Battle of Calth, and independent of Guilliman, Garro tells a psyker to use his powers.
During the battle of Terra, things aren't going well. Dorn gathers all his remaining psykers and tells them that it's go time.
In Fear to Tread, the upcoming Blood Angels book (not-a-spoiler; Sanguinius survives that Bloodthirster on the front...Because he has to face Horus), it's rumoured that one of the subplots is that Sanguinius never even enforced the edict within his own Legion...Although that's a rumour.
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2012-05-26, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
That does make the Space Wolves' attack on Prospero more interesting...
Until the books came out, I always imagined that Nikaea forbade sorcery as opposed to psychic powers. Of course, that's now not the case. Okay, we know the Space Wolves were duped, but even then, if they were still using Rune Priests, or started using them soon after, wouldn't they have realised their error, especially since they had listened to Horus of all people and burned Prospero?
Maybe the Emperor saw some psychic stuff as worse than others...
The Emperor>Navigators and Astropaths>Malcador>Librarians>Sorcerers being a scale of best to worst?
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2012-05-26, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Sorcery had always been banned.
Okay, we know the Space Wolves were duped, but even then, if they were still using Rune Priests, or started using them soon after, wouldn't they have realised their error, especially since they had listened to Horus of all people and burned Prospero?
For whatever reason, Space Wolves appear to be exempt from the Nikean Edict. Or just broke it immediately to deal with the Sons.
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2012-05-26, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
That's what I don't really get. They broke the Edict to punish dudes for breaking that Edict.
And surely, with the Emperor preaching militant atheism, they'd realise it wasn't gods or spirits giving them magic, but the Warp?
Hmm.
Maybe the details of the Nikaean Council came up funny:
Psykers psyking get 10 years in prison.
Sorcerers get executed en-masse?
Space Wolves get more lenient treatment, on account of thinking the Nikaean Edict was a great idea.Last edited by bluntpencil; 2012-05-26 at 09:45 AM.
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2012-05-26, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2012-05-26 at 09:51 AM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2012-05-26, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
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2012-05-26, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
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2012-05-26, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40k fluff thread VI: They see me Ward'en, they haten
I doubt the Space Wolves have a cupboard on their battlefield full of salamanders green, but this is the Alpha Legion we're talking about. If it involves misdirection they've practiced to do it more efficiency than other chapter's practice reloading their bolters. Heck they can probably repaint their armour in the time it takes a Space Wolf to reload a bolter.
Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2012-05-26 at 10:34 AM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.