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Thread: Skyrim V: Skyrim
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2012-05-14, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Skyrim V: Skyrim
Thread title wins by one vote (for a total of 2), so still open for suggestions as I didn't want it to spread to page 51 like the last one.
Anyway, this is a thread for discussing the most recent Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim.
Previous threads:
- Who's excited for Skyrim?
- Skyrim II: A Dragon A Day Keeps The Draugr At Bay.
- Skyrim III: Get rich selling protective knee gear!
- Skyrim IV: Oblivion
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Speech improving ShoutingLast edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-14 at 06:53 AM.
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2012-05-14, 06:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Apologies for the double post, but I wanted to keep my replies from the previous thread out of the leader post for this one.
That's fine since Ulfric has a very polarising ideology. I haven't done the Stormcloak side yet to get the other side of the story, so I'll reserve judgement on what he's doing is right.
On the surface of it from an Imperial perspective, he's got some justification for the cultural invasion aspect, especially from the various conversations between Legate Rikke and General Tulius.
On a personal level, I agree with you.
On a more pragmatic level, as long as their personal views don't interfer with their duties or affect their policies, does it really matter?
Ulfric is unquestionably prejudiced, but thus far it seems to be limited to neglect of the Grey Elves living in Windhelm, something that his steward appears to be trying to rectify on the quiet.
Compared to what he could be doing to purge Skyrim of all foreigners, it's probably the best that they could hope for (still doesn't make it right though).
Generally I agree, but I loathe Maven Black-Briar.
I was really disappointed when I found out you couldn't disband the thieves guild and hence a significant portion of Maven's powerbase.Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-14 at 06:45 AM.
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2012-05-14, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
My friend played both sides simultaneously, until he stopped going Stormcloaks because
SpoilerUlfric tells you to attack that city you're the Thane of - Whiterun, I think? The people there have been nothing but nice to you, the leader was gracious enough to make you Thane, give you a house and one of the better companions in the game, and he's telling you to attack it.
Ulfric is kind of a jerk.Last edited by Terry576; 2012-05-14 at 07:18 AM.
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2012-05-14, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
What upsets me the most about Ulfric's designs for Whiterun is that it affects the only political base that seems to understand the greater problem at hand and is providing resources to address that. Had I the choice, I would have slaughtered both Tulius and Ulfric and made Balgruuf high king, even if he didn't want the honor.
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2012-05-14, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
RE: Civil War. I haven't done this yet, I'm currently deciding whether to pursue this or the Thieves' Guild next. It seems to me that the story team decided early on to make both sides despicable, but to "tweak" the players by starting it out with the traditional "rebellion good empire bad" schtick. This way they could pull the rug out, so to speak.
SpoilerFrankly, Ulfric is acting like a spoiled brat. He couldn't be acting in the Thalmor's interest any more if he wanted to. On the other hand, I don't see how most people could listen to the General's conversation with his second-in-command in Solitude and not want to smack him - or kneecap him, for that matter.
Having said that, I think the Civil War in Skyrim might need to get 'self-moderated' some way here, as it clearly has a way of taking over the thread. Perhaps something as simple as, "If you're angry enough to start bullet-point responding, keep it in spoilers" or something like that.
RE: Raising Sneak. I'd like to confirm that the method of sneak-attacking an unkillable character works, within certain limits. I did it to the Silver Blood guy as part of the Forsworn Conspiracy chain in Markath. There can't be anyone else that sees you do it, however, and it isn't as fast as some people suggest it is because you have to wait for them to reset before you can sneak attack them again. It was good for over 30 skillups before I just couldn't grind it anymore without my eyes bleeding
In other news, dual-wielding two Daedric Daggers that are max-improved is just nothing short of crazy, even unenchanted and without all the perks. I played around with not surrendering during the Forsworn Conspiracy chain and just ran through town killing guards when they tried to kill me. It wasn't a fight, it felt like playing Pac-Man without the threat of the ghosts frankly.
Also, I have to say one of the Markarth quests triggered a squick ("Ewwwwww....") factor for me. I already knew from previous experience with this game series that most of the Daedric artifact quests wouldn't be for me but... I got into this one without realizing it was a Daedric quest. I figured it was just another kill-the-undead-in-the-tomb thing. Thankfully the NPC was killable when I went to the second stage, so I got that out of my systemLast edited by TheEmerged; 2012-05-14 at 08:19 AM.
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2012-05-14, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
I disagree, he's not kind of a jerk, he is a jerk.
It still doesn't detract from his stated aims though.
Edit: sorry, I felt I should clarify. When you're involved in statecraft with the stakes as high as depicted (the control of the entire province of Skyrim, the defence of your culture from Imperial culturalism, not to mention the lives of all your soldiers), you generally don't have the leeway to be nice.
You have to make the hard decisions and if it involves sending your best soldier to attack their home city where they hold a position of power and respect, then you do it.
As a side effect, you're testing their loyalty, both to you and your cause, so while I agree it's a bit of a [redacted] move, it's a necessary one.
Out of curiousity, has much been made of Ulfric's military background in that he's got a very black and white view of the political situation?
Terry576's comments on his orders to attack the city as part of the Stormcloak questline, sounds like it since he's pretty much telling you to pick a side once and for all.
If the game were more complex (or a PnP RPG), then you could use your influence as Thane on the Jarl to surrender the city so that people wouldn't have to suffer, making sure you get a couple nice compromises/clauses into the settlement especially with retaining full control over the city.
I was playing an Argonian so that quest was perfectly fitting (I was wondering why I wasn't doing it in the first place - what else are you going to do with your 50% disease resistance and fast healing rate ).
There's only two bits that depress me in the game:
SpoilerThe lighthouse section with finding out what happened to the family, hoping you'd find one of them alive, then getting to the end where the daughter has committed suicide so she wouldn't be fed alive to those insects and the remains of the father inside one of them.
That pretty much cemented my dislike of Falmer and I will take the time out to hunt down and kill everyone of those little [redacted] every time I go into a Dwarvern ruin.
The other was when you're getting back inside the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary during the raid and you noticed they've killed Babette's pet spider.
Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-14 at 09:00 AM.
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2012-05-14, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
The moment Balgruuf (rather angrily) announced he wouldn't put politics before the well-being of his people, I knew what side I was on. Whiterun's. Seriously. Ulfric will never win on my computer just because of that one outburst.
Spoiler: My inventory:
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1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
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Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2012-05-14, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
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2012-05-14, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Anyone got content-adding mods to recommend? I kind of feel like starting a new dude, but beyond the Thieves Guild I've done pretty much everything already, and I'm not a huge fan of sneakery.
Or, additionally, what's your favourite quest? Maybe I've missed that one.
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2012-05-14, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
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2012-05-14, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
It's the Empire that's playing into the Thalmor's hands, not Ulfric. When you choose siding with your enemy over your subjects, you've lost your kingdom, and that's what the Emperor has done with the WGC.
RE: Raising Sneak. I'd like to confirm that the method of sneak-attacking an unkillable character works, within certain limits. I did it to the Silver Blood guy as part of the Forsworn Conspiracy chain in Markath. There can't be anyone else that sees you do it, however, and it isn't as fast as some people suggest it is because you have to wait for them to reset before you can sneak attack them again. It was good for over 30 skillups before I just couldn't grind it anymore without my eyes bleeding
In other news, dual-wielding two Daedric Daggers that are max-improved is just nothing short of crazy, even unenchanted and without all the perks. I played around with not surrendering during the Forsworn Conspiracy chain and just ran through town killing guards when they tried to kill me. It wasn't a fight, it felt like playing Pac-Man without the threat of the ghosts frankly.
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2012-05-14, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
You can always get a bunch of points in sneak in the very first room by sneak attacking whoever it is you decided to follow while they stand around.
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2012-05-14, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Last edited by Terry576; 2012-05-14 at 04:54 PM.
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2012-05-14, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
It's the Empire that's playing into the Thalmor's hands, not Ulfric. When you choose siding with your enemy over your subjects, you've lost your kingdom, and that's what the Emperor has done with the WGC.
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2012-05-14, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Doing another playthrough, this time as a melee rogue build instead of an archer one. Don't get me wrong, being an archer is fun - sneak attacking people from hundreds of feet away, watching them tumble over things and freak out, completely unable to find me even three feet away? Fun.
But sneaking silently through a bandit fort, snuffing torches as I go, and sneaking up behind a man as he grumbles to himself at his desk? Getting right behind an unsuspecting enemy and shivving him in the spine? There's something so much more satisfying about that.
Both of my stealth playthroughs have been the most fun I've had in the game so far.
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2012-05-14, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Last edited by TheEmerged; 2012-05-14 at 08:35 PM.
- Sometimes, the knights are the monsters
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- George R.R. Martin, Kirkman, and Joss Whedon walked into a bar. There were no survivors.
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2012-05-14, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-14, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-05-15, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
That's a perfectly respectable and admirable positions to take, but purely playing devil's advocate here, is it such a wise choice for Whiterun to attempt to go it alone?
Its strategic importance (the only way to get around Skyrim without going through Whiterun Hold, is to detour north through Hjaalmarch (Morthal), The Pale (Dawnstar) and Winterhold, all three of which are coastal thus prone to raids by Imperial forces which control the seas) coupled with its known security problems suggest it's not strong enough to hold out against the Imperial army AND the Stormcloaks.
It may be able to hold off an assault by one side, but then what's stopping the other from marching in and mopping up afterwards? Wouldn't that cause even more suffering on Whiterun's citizens than just surrendering/allying from the start?
The only reason why it hasn't been taken, is because of this very fact - the Stormcloaks and the Imperials are waiting for the other to make the first move on Whiterun.
Baalgruuf is playing for time by refusing to station Imperial troops, but equally he's not opening his gates to the Stormcloaks. Eventually however, he's going to have to make a choice.
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2012-05-15, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2012-05-15, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Last edited by Misery Esquire; 2012-05-15 at 09:54 AM.
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2012-05-15, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Really? Because I distinctly remember my neutral character getting the death sentence from General Tullius himself for nothing more than crossing the border into Skyrim. That's what really cheeses me off about the Imperials. I've never played any of the Civil War questline, I'm just not a huge fan of the death sentence for immigration.
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2012-05-15, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
You were caught in the middle of an ambush. You are at best in Skyrim illegally and at worst an agent of the Stormcloaks. Tulius didn't make the call on your execution, he allowed the Captain in charge manage things, but he doesn't hold it against you when/if he sees you next. The captain is an uncomplicated woman who would rather apologize for executing a minor criminal than for allowing a Stormcloak agent go free under the guise of an innocent bystander. To a certain sort of mind, that would be a logical conclusion. From a personal perspective, it's less forgivable.
Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2012-05-15, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
In addition to Gaelbert's comments, it would depend on how much General Tullius trusts Baalgruuf. Is Tullius comfortable enough to launch an attack on Eastmarch, knowing that his flank/rear is held by a neutral Whiterun at the very defensible Valtheim Towers?
Given Tullius' opinion and understanding of Skyrim and Nordic culture in general, he probably trusts them as far as he can throw them.
Not speaking as devil's advocate here, while I agree with the worst case, I'm going to dispute the best.
I wasn't aware that the Empire had immigration policies and passport/visa requirements, so at best, you're an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Given the world's generally low regard for life, they're not going to shed any tears if an innocent person is executed, as you've said.Last edited by Brother Oni; 2012-05-15 at 01:15 PM.
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2012-05-15, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
I'd say that Tullius trusts the Nords fairly well, it's just that he doesn't really want to be in Skyrim trying to figure out thier ancient traditions, at all. He just wants to kill Ulfric, smash the Stormcloaks (killing Ulfric does this anyway), and go home.
Pretty much this. Tullius didn't really care about you one way or the other, and you've been caught hopping the boarder, or at least within ambushing range of the Stormcloaks.
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2012-05-15, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Last edited by Calemyr; 2012-05-15 at 02:31 PM.
Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2012-05-15, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
One thing you forgot- who in the right mind would you go in to viking land in civil war, other than refugees and criminals, nord who wanted to fight for stormcloaks, Or in breton case
Spoilera nobleman escaping from his/her own deadly court.
So they have justification for arresting you in the first place.Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
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2012-05-15, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Skyrim V: Skyrim
Or traders, Khajit caravans, people looking to start a new life in a new land, people wanting to learn about magic, people wanting to visit Skyrim, people wanting to leave the destruction of their own land behind them, etc. etc.
Edit: Wait. Are you implying that refugees ought to be put to death?Last edited by Gaelbert; 2012-05-15 at 06:59 PM.