LGBTAitp #46: I cast Prismatic Hugs!

[Remmirath]

It's been quite a while since I read The Snow Queen, and I hadn't even heard of Frozen until this thread, so I can't really comment on all that. I'm generally not too fond of Disney movies, though, or animated movies in general, so I suppose it would likely not be my cup of tea.

I think this is a bit of a weird definition of misandry. Thoughts?

Spoiler: I get what they're trying to say, but I believe that it is a poor choice of word.

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I believe that I understand what they're trying to say, but that perhaps they ought to either find another word to sum up the concept or simply explain it when it comes up. When most people hear that word, they will think of a person who hates or dislikes men simply for being men and acts accordingly, and I can't see how proudly associating oneself with that definition could help anything. It will only make one come off as prejudiced.

Yes, the things that they list are certainly not privileges that anyone should have, but I think that then going on to say that equality might mean that everybody has those as privileges is quite a leap. For one thing, I'm not convinced that's even possible; one can't use power and privilege to hurt people if everyone is truly equal. For another, the only reason many of those things are accepted is peer pressure and disdain for the rights of others, which presumably wouldn't happen in an equal society. Hopefully not, to be sure.

I'm all for holding everyone accountable for their actions, but switching over to oppressing a different group of people is not at all the way to go about it, and that is what I would assume someone meant if they were to use this person's definition of misandry in a conversation.

I like the post except where they keep misusing the word "misandry", which really invalidates everything else because it makes them sound like a bigot too.

Yeah, that's the problem, really. It makes the rest of the post rather more uncomfortable for it.

does anybody else love Khaos Comix? I think the stories are just so sweet, and It's a very good example of stories being very different from someone else's perspective.

It;s something that makes me very happy when I read it, and I wanted to spread the love! (although a lot of you probably allready know about it)

http://www.khaoskomix.com/

I keep thinking it looks interesting, but I've never actually read it. Perhaps this time.

Myself, I have to wonder why a blog that lists inclusiveness for all has a logo that happily proclaims "forever bathing in your male tears", but hey.

I found that somewhat strange, as well. Some form of humour, perhaps?

I wrote this, which I find thread relevant: "It's permanent"

That was good. I think you made your point well.

More articles on history, because that's what I do. Possibly with comparisons to the present, because I can do those on quiet Sunday evenings while drinking a hot chocolate, whereas in-depth historical research is more difficult.

That sounds very interesting.

Other news:
1) Quebec has passed a law allowing to have the legal sex change without any surgery!!! Yay, less bureaucracy for me
2) I should get my referral tomorrow! Yay!

Cool, that's great!

[KenderWizard]

Well, damn, I just looked up a scene from Frozen, this one (possible spoilers? I don't know who she actually is), and that's beautiful and I may have developed a slight crush on animated Idina Mendez, so guess what I'll be seeing soon?
God that animation is gorgeous (even better than a lot of Disney's classic/great works), and that voice and the attitude and the confidence and I'm not really a fan of blondes/blonds (from a purely physical perspective), but that is good.

I know!!! Oh my gosh, so much beautiful!

Olaf was the single best part of that movie, even if only barely. Olaf the snowman melts my heart.

Spoiler: Spoilers

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I am still undecided on it. It hasn't compiled yet.

For one, True Love^{[font="courier new]TM[/font]} is a berserk button of mine because of how glossed-over it is when there's a lot of assumptions and baggage involved.

So the instant True Love was mentioned I immediately flowered, rolled my eyes and said "it damn well better be the sister or I will flip all the tables." So when it was, I relieved but have a hard time letting go of my brooding. So now I'm mostly okay, except I'm really irked that prudish tight laced princess becomes fre and suddenly HIPS LIKE A PENDULUM IN GLORIOUS 4" PUMPS IN THE SNOW.

But the ending was okay and Olaf was remarkably sweet, so much so that I think he should be a thread mascot. So now I'm like, not sure. Great animation and fantabulous acting and vocals, though.

Spoiler: Frozen spoilers

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Yeah, I was extremely dubious about the True Love thing but I'd read a review that said "I don't want to spoil the ending, but let me just say this; this is a movie about sisterhood" so I let myself go along with it reasonably trusting that it'd be alright, and it was! Maybe you'd like it better on a second viewing, now you know there's no TWUE WUV'S PERFECT KISS.

I would have been a lot more alarmed by the freedom = sashaying in heels moment ... except that there were two princesses, and for the other one, freedom was running around the town like an idiot with a big grin.

[SiuiS]

all this stuff gets one big spoiler because otherwise the tags get wonky. So.

Spoiler: weird blog thing

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It doesn't make sense as rhetoric or a rhetorical statement to me, so I'd appreciate it if you'd humor me and explain that a bit more.

Well, I'm probably using a looser definition of rhetoric and rhetorical. A rhetorical statement is one that's not supposed to be answered so much as provoke thought and trigger a response in you. You're supposed to read this, go "what the hell are you smoking?" And mull it over until you see the point and then choose to agree or disagree.

That's the only explanation I can think of for coming at this sideways like this, aside from terrible tunnel vision and not being aware of it. For the record, I'm dealing with this text wall;

I believe in both feminism and misandry because not only do I think women need to be empowered and have an equal footing in society, but I think men have a lot of privileges that NO ONE should have, not even oppressed groups. Being able to sexually assault people and not be held accountable or punished, being glorified for taking advantage of others, using power and privilege to hurt and mock those that lack power to defend themselves, being treated like you’re immune to criticism and fault, etc. Saying women should have equality potentially implies women should have the right to do all those things too. No human deserves to have any of those privileges, and to me, misandry is the reduction of some of those harmful and dangerous privileges for men while feminism helps empower women to have a higher value in society. Misandry means holding men accountable for the past and current atrocities they have commited/are committing and making sure that pattern can not continue, no matter how “equal” women seem to be.

Show me anyone making that argument and I'd buy you a beer.

Well, I could show you the blog, but...

Okay. More seriously this is a compile issue. I know for a fact that some people do, indeed, think "yes, I am doing [bad thing], but you can do [bad thing] too if you want, so it's cool" is a valid stance to have. They don't recognize or accept the baggage in the word "bad" of bad thing; they don't work objectively. It's similar to the "it's only illegal if you get caught" line of thought.

Additionally, there are those for whom feminism means reversal. Feminism = women on top, men on bottom. Feminism means women get to do bad things without getting in trouble. They get this right because they can say "well they do bad thing, I can do it too!". You also have a culture that views being a Man as good, and you get women who try to be a Man, in all ways social and personality. And since there is no definition of Man that is not a social one, you get women taking up the social mantle of Men, being arrogant jerks who need to establish Their Alpha and denigrate other Men and be rude jerks.

This blog post cuts through the (possible) homeostasis of people who do not self-evaluate, and if they do, do not judge themselves objectively. It takes a roundabout method and says "this is wrong. It does not matter if others do it; they are wrong too. Stop it universally".

There is a book, somewhere, called... What? The Ethical Slut? The basis of the book is that a sex positive life is fine, slur shaming is bad, and go ahead and enjoy some carnality. But it does this by purposefully stopping you up with misuse of the word slut based on their own, purposefully at-odds-with-common-sense understanding. It's reclaiming, rebranding, "taking back". They do it so you can proudly say "I am a slut!" And when people look at you funny or question you, you can 'correct' them with your new mnemonic. It's viral, basically.

That's what I'm seeing here. This is designed to make it so someone can say happily, "I am a misandrist!"
'Oh that's terrible! You're a bad person !'
"Why is that?"
'Because you're a misandrist!'
"Ah, but do you know what that means?"

And after the conversation the 'misandrist' gets to feel arrogantly happy about enlightening the poor sod who jumped on a buzzword without thinking it through first.

It just so happens, unfortunately, that we HAVE thought it through and find this to be rather silly.

Something about lumping blatant abuses of power with more passive privilege also doesn't really set right with me, but I can't quite place my finger on why, per se.

Blatant abuse of power is an action you take. Benefitting from privilege is the actions others take toward you. You punish abuse of power, you correct privilege. Limping them together sounds an awful lot like abusing others because of accidents of birth... Which is kinda what feminism is all about stoppingn, what with women not needing to be second class because they happen to have been born Not Men.

Granted, I was taught that equality without ending abuse and wrongdoing was a farce, so that might tie into my perspective.

And I hope you pass that on.
The people I've seen, though. So many are conditioned not to think. Not to pry. It's terrible.

It does seem to beat the alternative if those are the only two options on the table, yes. It especially seems to beat trying to kludge societal morals without a real goal of where you want them to end up.

Aye. The real answer is to make decisions as to what is good in life, study how to achieve them, and try to be decent people in the meantime. But that's so abstract as to be useless, and I've never seen an application that could be separated from tyranny. Iunno.

It does seem to either be that or dismiss it out of hand, but the people who wholeheartedly agreed with it, and the one person who reblogged it and apologized for not being able to say "kill all the men!" yet would seem to offer some third viewpoint which I cannot fathom. Perhaps it's one of those examples of the blogger demonstrating sarcasm that will never be denoted as sarcasm and one is supposed to get it immediately or identify one's self as not the right kind of person or stupid in the eyes of the blogger and thus to be dismissed as less than.

*shrug*

Couldn't tell you.

I believe that I understand what they're trying to say, but that perhaps they ought to either find another word to sum up the concept or simply explain it when it comes up. When most people hear that word, they will think of a person who hates or dislikes men simply for being men and acts accordingly, and I can't see how proudly associating oneself with that definition could help anything. It will only make one come off as prejudiced.

Yes. It seems more a ticket to feeling like a martyr and religion there they just don't understand than anything else.

Yes, the things that they list are certainly not privileges that anyone should have, but I think that then going on to say that equality might mean that everybody has those as privileges is quite a leap.

My problem with the Internet in sum:
This is perfectly 100% logical. Logic is not infallible and often fails to account for the illogical, still rational, inertia of things. Yes, it's logical. But it's also stupid. That will never happen as long as people are encouraged to think and care. That's what happened when someone legislates equality, not when people are equal.

For one thing, I'm not convinced that's even possible; one can't use power and privilege to hurt people if everyone is truly equal. For another, the only reason many of those things are accepted is peer pressure and disdain for the rights of others, which presumably wouldn't happen in an equal society. Hopefully not, to be sure.

I dunno. Take a place with no laws. Murder is acceptable. You have the privilege of murdering people and it's cool. They have that privilege too though, so it's cool right?

Spoiler: Frozen spoilers

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Yeah, I was extremely dubious about the True Love thing but I'd read a review that said "I don't want to spoil the ending, but let me just say this; this is a movie about sisterhood" so I let myself go along with it reasonably trusting that it'd be alright, and it was! Maybe you'd like it better on a second viewing, now you know there's no TWUE WUV'S PERFECT KISS.

Maybe. I can't get it to compile, may have to try.

Haha. Sashay~

Spoiler

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I would have been a lot more alarmed by the freedom = sashaying in heels moment ... except that there were two princesses, and for the other one, freedom was running around the town like an idiot with a big grin.

Ah. Maybe I'm just inured to it; that's what Braz does whenever we go anywhere. Dorks being dorky is my standard understanding of the world.

Spoiler

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[Zorg]

But yeah, "man in a woman's body" and "woman in a man's body" is just old cissexist crap.

I don't particularly appreciate being told part of my identity is cissexist crap.

and to segue into a longer rant not directed at anyone in particular - this sort of thing is why I don't have much to do with the LGBT+ community outsdie this thread. I mean we're proclaiming we're "all inclusive" but how many times have I been shamed for being traditionally femme (hur, makeup is evul, death to traditional gender roles, if you're trans and want to be pretty you're internalising cissexism and misogyny!), been made to feel like I'm wrong for talking about how I'm upset I never got to wear a pretty dress for my 16th birthday, or to graduation, or that I had to hide away learning to walk in heels rather than have fun doing it. Made to feel like I'm a traitor or not properly trans/bi/feminist for wanting to be pretty and cute. When media is discussed and everyone homes in on how problematic it is that they're showing things I've always dreamt of having - going from my quiet, sullen existence to being a beautiful vibrant princess is the stuff my dreams were made of, yet seein ghtat is "problematic". Yes, I know the problem is that that is the only story given, but it is so hard to be in the LGBT+ / feminist culture when everything seems to be attacking your identity for being to blame.
I have had to live my whole ****ing life being a victim of the patriarchy and transphobia, so don't go telling me what I feel is wrong. Yes, I want to have a partner who'll look after me; yes, the idea of wearing dresses, doing my makeup and being a housewife appeals to me; and, yes, I sometimes do feel like a woman in a man's body.
But you know what? That's me and if someone's experience of being Trans, or a lesbian, or a woman is different I don't care so long as they are living that way willingly. And I've been in a relationship where I was abused and raped, so I ****ing know the difference between being happily not wearing the pants and the world ****ing me over.

Labels should be descriptive, not proscriptive, and if someone is comfortable with one and you don't like it - go **** yourself.

[SiuiS]

I don't particularly appreciate being told part of my identity is cissexist crap.

I'm sorry Zorg, and I do hope I haven't contributed to that feeling.

[Skeppio]

*snip*

I pretty much completely agree. It's why I don't post here much, or do much to be a part of the LGBTA+ community in general. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in that lonely gap between "people who don't understand/approve of LGBTA+" and "die cis scum". The middle ground seems to be so tiny and unpopulated that it's no wonder I always end up as a lonely, bitter husk that pushes people away.

Y'know, not that anyone gives a crap what I'm feeling or anything. Easier to just dismiss me as "mean ol' Skep hates everyone".

[The Succubus]

I think this is why some people are afraid of getting to know LGBT folks; if it's a proverbial minefield for actual LGBTers, there's a chance that any cishetero folks simply asking an honest question or making a mistake are likely to get their heads chewed off.

A thought did occur to me as I was typing this - perhaps feminism is a little too tightly bound to transgender issues? Feminists tend to have a very broad view about what constitutes womanhood; the housewife role is every bit as fine as the high powered businesses woman role *as long as it is the individual woman's choice to do that*. Once a feminist starts accusing another feminist of not being feminine enough, then they're not really any better than any other sort of bigot. Case in point - terfs. I really hate terfs because they don't encourage women to be the best they can be, like a true feminist should, instead they practice bigotry beneath an extremely distasteful veneer of hypocrisy.

I apologize if I've got some of my terminology wrong or made my points a little crudely. Feminism is complicated.

[SiuiS]

I think this is why some people are afraid of getting to know LGBT folks; if it's a proverbial minefield for actual LGBTers, there's a chance that any cishetero folks simply asking an honest question or making a mistake are likely to get their heads chewed off.

A thought did occur to me as I was typing this - perhaps feminism is a little too tightly bound to transgender issues? Feminists tend to have a very broad view about what constitutes womanhood; the housewife role is every bit as fine as the high powered businesses woman role *as long as it is the individual woman's choice to do that*. Once a feminist starts accusing another feminist of not being feminine enough, then they're not really any better than any other sort of bigot. Case in point - terfs. I really hate terfs because they don't encourage women to be the best they can be, like a true feminist should, instead they practice bigotry beneath an extremely distasteful veneer of hypocrisy.

I apologize if I've got some of my terminology wrong or made my points a little crudely. Feminism is complicated.

Complication doesn't even begin to cover the territory. Quote frankly, "Feminism" is such a broad topic which covers so many points that perfectly reasonable and actionable solutions to some issues actively exacerbate other issues. That's why it's still in flux, to this day.

[Kittenwolf]

I don't particularly appreciate being told part of my identity is cissexist crap.

Spoiler: Spoilering for Length

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and to segue into a longer rant not directed at anyone in particular - this sort of thing is why I don't have much to do with the LGBT+ community outsdie this thread. I mean we're proclaiming we're "all inclusive" but how many times have I been shamed for being traditionally femme (hur, makeup is evul, death to traditional gender roles, if you're trans and want to be pretty you're internalising cissexism and misogyny!), been made to feel like I'm wrong for talking about how I'm upset I never got to wear a pretty dress for my 16th birthday, or to graduation, or that I had to hide away learning to walk in heels rather than have fun doing it. Made to feel like I'm a traitor or not properly trans/bi/feminist for wanting to be pretty and cute. When media is discussed and everyone homes in on how problematic it is that they're showing things I've always dreamt of having - going from my quiet, sullen existence to being a beautiful vibrant princess is the stuff my dreams were made of, yet seein ghtat is "problematic". Yes, I know the problem is that that is the only story given, but it is so hard to be in the LGBT+ / feminist culture when everything seems to be attacking your identity for being to blame.
I have had to live my whole ****ing life being a victim of the patriarchy and transphobia, so don't go telling me what I feel is wrong. Yes, I want to have a partner who'll look after me; yes, the idea of wearing dresses, doing my makeup and being a housewife appeals to me; and, yes, I sometimes do feel like a woman in a man's body.
But you know what? That's me and if someone's experience of being Trans, or a lesbian, or a woman is different I don't care so long as they are living that way willingly. And I've been in a relationship where I was abused and raped, so I ****ing know the difference between being happily not wearing the pants and the world ****ing me over.

Labels should be descriptive, not proscriptive, and if someone is comfortable with one and you don't like it - go **** yourself

.

AMEN SISTER!
Just because one person/group of people think that labels don't matter, or XYZ are bad or meaningless or whatever else doesn't mean there aren't other people who they do have meaning for.

As a random example, a really good friend of mine has trouble sometimes understanding my gender identity, not out of stupidity or closed minded-ness or anything, but because the concept of Gender identity simply has no meaning to her.
She just doesn't understand how their gender identity is important to other people or how it makes a difference in how they might behave, or how they associate things with one identity or another. Associating traits or jobs or roles or anything with one gender or another just doesn't fit into her head.

But, for all that she doesn't understand it herself, she *does* understand that it has meaning for *other* people, and wouldn't dream of telling people that gender identity is meaningless full stop just because it is to her.

I'm completely with you on loving pretty things and dresses and heels and pink and jewelry and being disappointed at not having had a Deb ball/dress and all those kinds of things. Finally admitting that I liked those things was one of the things that led me to working out that I'm genderfluid.

A lot of my friends think I'm nuts for liking heels (and being able to walk in them) and when I'm in girl headspace I'm much more stereotypically girly in a lot of ways/interests than most of my female identifying friends (though I do know one girl who beats me at that, although she seems to think I might beat her once I'm fully able to present and go out as a girl).

As far as I'm concerned if you're looking at these things and going "I want/like that for me" and not "That is what I'm supposed to like because I'm a girl so therefore I have no choice", then to hell with anyone who thinks that's unempowering or anti-feminist or whatever else says.

It takes a lot more guts to stand up to both the misogynists and anti-feminine feminists and say "I like being feminine, for *me*" than it does to stand up to the misogynists only and reject it outright.

*Offers Big Hugs, with a side order of cake-of-doom and cajun pepper chocolate cookies*

[Delusion]

I wrote this, which I find thread relevant: "It's permanent"

Very nice article and every word of it is so true. ^^

[Mina Kobold]

I pretty much completely agree. It's why I don't post here much, or do much to be a part of the LGBTA+ community in general. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in that lonely gap between "people who don't understand/approve of LGBTA+" and "die cis scum". The middle ground seems to be so tiny and unpopulated that it's no wonder I always end up as a lonely, bitter husk that pushes people away.

Y'know, not that anyone gives a crap what I'm feeling or anything. Easier to just dismiss me as "mean ol' Skep hates everyone".

I don't think you're mean, hating or ol' at all! You have all the right to be distressed if you can't find many people between hating one side or hating the other. That does not sound very fun at all. >_<

If I've ever said anything that was hateful towards all cis people or the traits of common stereotypes themselves, I'm really really sorry. I generally will complain about high heels and house-wife roles in a lot of media, but I really do not wish to complain about either one existing. Just that it makes no sense for Wonder Woman or Batwoman to wear heels while chasing supervillains across rooftops or for all women in a story to be the same personality (unless that's a part of the plot, but still). Which is a problem no matter the personality, too many stories are either reinforcing an old idea of All Women or saying that All Women cannot be like that idea at all instead. Which is bad, since it doesn't fit a lot of people and ends up hurting great people. I really really don't want to make the All Women type to exist at all, let alone be changed around so much it hurts people I love whether they fit or not. m(_ _)m

*Offers Kobold hug offers for Zorg, Skeppio and everybody else wanting one.*

EDIT: Oh, and anyone saying that make-up is bad needs to understand that their argument is invalid by way of it making this possible. so want to be able to do that. @_@

[Astrella]

First full laser bombardment on my face went well~ I did almost throw up again, but I think I just don't handle the smell of burnt hair well. >.> Also didn't apply enough numbing cream apparently, and it was really weird how some places barely felt like anything and all and other were *ouch*. (Upper lip barely hurt at all and apparently that's a really bad spot.) Also the laser lady is very nice and friendly.

[The Succubus]

Laser Girl would make a great name for a super heroine. Also, this flu is making my brain silly.

[Akowrules]

Yay! New thread!!! Can't read or type much at the moment, since I'm in class. I wish you all the best, and hugs for all who need them! And for those who may not need them, because I think everyone needs and deserves them! I wish you all a splendid day!

[Delusion]

Laser Girl would make a great name for a super heroine. Also, this flu is making my brain silly.

Silly Succubus, demon's don't get sick.

Hugs?

[CurlyKitGirl]

First full laser bombardment on my face went well~ I did almost throw up again, but I think I just don't handle the smell of burnt hair well. >.> Also didn't apply enough numbing cream apparently, and it was really weird how some places barely felt like anything and all and other were *ouch*. (Upper lip barely hurt at all and apparently that's a really bad spot.) Also the laser lady is very nice and friendly.

Probably asking an idiotic question, but I don't care: was this just normal hair-killing-laser stuff, preparation to make your body reflect your gender or something else?
Also, was it expensive? Did it take a long time? *is contemplating things*

re: LGBTetc. terminology: another one chiming in to agree about being nervous about joining an LGBTetc. community because there are just so many potential minefields when it comes to terminology and how people view themselves.
I've been wanting to post in this thread series for a while, but I got all hung up on this classification/terminology thing and the fear of inadvertently insulting someone by not knowing which words they like, don't and why. Also I kind of wanted to see if there was anything 'particular' I fit into. And yes, there kind of is.
But ultimately I'm me and I don't fit precisely into anything, and I'm cool with that. Labels aren't very useful when it comes to me and my perception of things anyway; a person is a person and I'll like them or not depending on my opinion of them. Everything else is just trying not to offend people, which is difficult.

re: femininity and feminism: feminism and other equality movements can sometimes be overreactive and condemn things that, to them, represent what they're trying to move away from. But for me, equal opportunity means just that: you want to be a housewifehusband and be looked after? Cool, I hope you don't run into too many spiders (I'm not joking or implying anything, I can't stand those creepy little beasts), have fun, kick some butt and remember that you are just as important as the rest of your family, so take some time off now and then. You want to be a businesswoman/man? Cool, I hope you don't run into too many idiots, have fun, kick some butt and remember that you're just as important as you're work, so take some time off now and then.
You've just worked up the courage to come out/tell someone that you're trans*/whatever? Cool, I'm glad you were able to tell me, thanks for your trust. If you need to talk to someone or want help, you know where I am. Do you want to talk more now or shall we do something else?

I personally find some feminine/female stuff confusing, but I'm hardly going to condemn people for wearing what they do. Well, let's be honest, if you're caking things on so thick I can see the powder from several feet away I'm going to think things like 'She layered on way too much makeup, she looks orange', and I'll probably think snarky things about people wearing clothes that don't suit them. I don't mean just the 'belt and two napkins' or the 'your trousers are so low I can see half your boxers and you waddle like a penguin' type of not suiting either, I mean clothes that don't show themselves off to their best advantage, or anything they obviously seem uncomfortable in.
That's why I don't really wear skirts or high heels or make up all that often; if I don't feel comfortable and confident in it there's no point in wearing it because everyone will be able to sense that. If I'm comfortable in something I can rock it, if I'm not then some of that discomfort will show through and I won't look well put together.
That's why I'm currently working up the courage to go for shorter and either blue, purple or red hair. I'm almost certain I'll be able to rock it, just one step to go.
Long ramble short, if you're happy as you are, that's amazing.

[Mono Vertigo]

On that tumblr link about misandry:

Spoiler

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Here's my feelings about it: [contains cartoon violence, strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)]

Okay, in more words now.
The feeling might be legitimate, but purposefully changing the definition of a word - a word made to describe a negative concept, at that - is silly. It's not even reclamation, it's confusing redefinition.
I could claim to be racist and say pretend I don't mean it to say I'm judging people according to their skin colour, that's not going to be okay. It's just hindering communication. It's not clever or brave or cute.
Also, misandry - following the actual definition of misandry - is still not great. No, it's not great setting a precedent of people who are acceptable targets because of an organ they happen to be born with. Plus, there are many women who are misogynist jerks and contribute to the oppression of their peers, and the fact they have or want to have a vagina doesn't make it better, either. Some of my best friends relatives are misogynistic women! Sure would be easier if all men, and only men, were privileged misogynistic jerks, but life's more complicated than that.

@Zorg: I feel I must apologize here for some of my discourse here. I've complained a lot about make-up and dresses, and may not have made it clear that what sucks about them is having to wear them. Someone likes it, great. You like being stereotypically girly? Go ahead, that's awesome, you'll rock the style better than I do and enjoy it and that's what matters. Different strokes for different people. I just don't want to be restricted from life choices that have nothing to do with fashion or aesthetics because I'm not femme.

[Astrella]

Probably asking an idiotic question, but I don't care: was this just normal hair-killing-laser stuff, preparation to make your body reflect your gender or something else?
Also, was it expensive? Did it take a long time? *is contemplating things*

Getting rid of facial hair, it's a big source of dysphoria for me. (I'm a trans woman.) I get mine done at the hospital, which is cheaper and handled better than in a random beauty salon, but I'm still paying 125 euros. (I would imagine not having a full face of facial hair to get rid of would make it quite a bit cheaper though.) The session itself took about 30 minutes, but that's with preparation and aftercare, so maybe 15 minutes for the lasering itself? Amount of sessions is usually 6-8 I've been told, though it varies of course.

[razovor]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

[Chess435]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs tightly*

We're here for you whenever you need us.

[Mono Vertigo]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs*

[Delusion]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs* I have had the same today, though mine has a certian physical reason (went to sleep waaaayyyy too late last night).

[CurlyKitGirl]

Getting rid of facial hair, it's a big source of dysphoria for me. (I'm a trans woman.) I get mine done at the hospital, which is cheaper and handled better than in a random beauty salon, but I'm still paying 125 euros. (I would imagine not having a full face of facial hair to get rid of would make it quite a bit cheaper though.) The session itself took about 30 minutes, but that's with preparation and aftercare, so maybe 15 minutes for the lasering itself? Amount of sessions is usually 6-8 I've been told, though it varies of course.

I hear you there. I have facial hair due to PCOS and it's a pain and kind of gross because I don't like how it looks on me. Granted it's not the same thing, but if I don't like my facial hair I can't imagine what it would be like for a trans woman.
Still, you're getting lazored and I assume the pain is worth it in the long run; and I get Vaniqua, which kind of works. Still, might look into getting laser treatment anyway. There's a palce nearby that does massive discounts after Christmas.

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs*
Hope you feel better soon.

[Lentrax]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs*

Get better. Let us know if there is anything else we can do.

[Astrella]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*hugs*

Dysphoria isn't fun, especially not when it messes with other things too. I hope it passes soon.

I hear you there. I have facial hair due to PCOS and it's a pain and kind of gross because I don't like how it looks on me. Granted it's not the same thing, but if I don't like my facial hair I can't imagine what it would be like for a trans woman.
Still, you're getting lazored and I assume the pain is worth it in the long run; and I get Vaniqua, which kind of works. Still, might look into getting laser treatment anyway. There's a palce nearby that does massive discounts after Christmas.

The pain isn't that bad if you use a numbing cream, and it's mostly just the repeatedness of it that gets a bit much. Hope you get good results from laser if you decide to go for it.

[Mina Kobold]

First full laser bombardment on my face went well~ I did almost throw up again, but I think I just don't handle the smell of burnt hair well. >.> Also didn't apply enough numbing cream apparently, and it was really weird how some places barely felt like anything and all and other were *ouch*. (Upper lip barely hurt at all and apparently that's a really bad spot.) Also the laser lady is very nice and friendly.

Congrats! On getting laser-bombarded, not on the smell of burnt hair or ouch. ^_^

Laser Lady is a wonderful description of a person, sounds very exciting. :3

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*Hugs from Victorian Kobland*

Duysphoria is never fun, but that sounds like an especially awful time. I hope things seem much less boring and hopeless soon.


A personal update; apparently just going to a Trans-specific meeting at LGBT Danmark cheers me up, even though the meeting itself was cancelled. Kind of bitter-sweet as it's in the middle of a pedestrian street with many many clothing stores (So close, yet I can't just buy them. T_T), but it did a lot to make me feel less stressed. I'm probably just odd. ^_^'

[Miriel]

I got my referral letter!!!

(I'll scan it later, because conservation. If anyone wants to know what these things look like, I could share. Without names and stuff, obviously.)

[Delusion]

I got my referral letter!!!

(I'll scan it later, because conservation. If anyone wants to know what these things look like, I could share. Without names and stuff, obviously.)

That is awesome. What was the referal for though? :P
HRT?

[Lentrax]

I got my referral letter!!!

(I'll scan it later, because conservation. If anyone wants to know what these things look like, I could share. Without names and stuff, obviously.)

Good news, everybody!
(This concludes the Farnsworth portion of Lentrax's day. He is tired and is going to bed. Good night all. *cue Taps*)

[Jormengand]

Can I have some hugs? I'm getting gender dysphoria a lot more often than usual, and now I seem to be getting depressed. I'm getting bouts of hopelessness, and boredom, and I don't seem to have any appetite. I'm dizzy, but that only seems to be when I lie down, so I think it's unrelated.

*Hugs*

Stay strong. This is tough, but cherubs you are tougher. Right?

Spoiler: Dysphoria

Show

It sucks, but there are things you can do to alleviate the suckiness. I have an anti-dysphoria hat, for example. Why a hat? God knows. But it's a hat that takes away the pain. Because I look pretty cool in the hat.

Just find something that makes you happy, and it might help. Playing Tetris is also recommended, because you're too busy being peed off by the stupid blocks not lining up properly to care about who you are at the moment, and by the end you'll have forgotten why you were originally upset in the first place. And you'll have a cool hat.

Also, spell check did not think "Dysphoria" was a word. Recommended "Phosphorous." I told it off.

Hope my ramblings cheer you up, at least.