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2017-02-08, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
A dimly-lit library. Rows of bookshelves line the walls, and as the camera slowly pans over them, we see that they are filled with gaming books. From the original brown-cover D&D manuals to the newest fifth edition supplements, we are given a brief but breathtaking history of over four decades of gaming in visual form.
A pair of feet, clad in Converse, appear. The camera pans back to reveal the Chairwoman as she strides out into Optimization Stadium. Slowly, she looks around at the battleground. Rapidly, we are shown shots of the gaming materials here assembled: books, miniatures, maps, dice. The Chairwoman reaches down and picks up a twenty-sided die. She rolls it, then turns to the camera... and smiles.
The camera pulls back from the smile to reveal... the Iron Gamers. Row upon row they stand, clad in the uniform of their trade: t-shirts with fantasy images, buttons with obscure quotes from novels and movies, dice bags at the ready. The shot dissolves into flames and the logo:
Iron Gamer
A montage of the contestants plays, with summaries of their optimization triumphs and achievements. Interspersed are brief interviews. Finally, though, the introductions are over. The contestants stand arrayed before the Chairwoman.
Chairwoman: We unveil the ingredient!
Tense music plays as the pedestal containing the mystery ingredient rises from below. Stacked neatly on the pedestal are copies of Savage Species.
Chairwoman: Let's switch things up a bit this time! A monstrous class, in an unusual environment... This month's theme is... Waverider! ALLEZ OPTIMISER!
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Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXXXIV. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavour to create an optimized and flavourful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".
Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.
Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was a long time ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, February 21st, 2017 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairwoman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 07:59 GMT on Tuesday, March 7th, 2017 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.
Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.
So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!
We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honourable mention. The honourable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honourable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.
The Builds
Past Competitions
Spoiler: The First FiftyIron Chef I: Entropomancer
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
Iron Chef V: War Chanter
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
Iron Chef XII: War Mind
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna
Iron Chef LX: Lasher
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord
Iron Cheff LXIII: Witchborn Binder
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer
Iron Chef LXIX: Fang of Lolth
Iron Chef LXIX: Shiba Protector
Iron Chef LXX: Order of the Bow Initiate
Iron Chef LXXI: Silver Key
Iron Chef LXXII: Spellfire Channeler
Iron Chef LXXIII: Flux Adept
Iron Chef LXXIV: Crinti Shadow Marauder
Iron Chef LXXV: Thief of Life
Iron Chef LXXVI: Legacy Champion
Iron Chef LXXVII: Great Rift Skyguard
Iron Chef LXVIII: Risen Martyr
Iron Chef LXXIX: Black Blood Hunter
Iron Chef LXXX: Master of Many Forms
Iron Chef LXXXI: Serene Guardian
Iron Chef LXXXII: Elocator
Iron Chef LXXXIII: Winterhaunt of IboorighuLast edited by Heliomance; 2017-02-08 at 06:36 AM.
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-
2017-02-08, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
FAQ:
Q: What's this even about?
A: I'm glad you asked, actually...
Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.
Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.
Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.
Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.
Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.
Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.
Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.
Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.
Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.
SpoilerOne Mistake, One Penalty
Spoiler: What does this mean?
Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.
Non-exhaustive list of examples:
Skills
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
- Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
- Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs
Not allowed:
- Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation
Prereqs
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
- Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
- Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
- (Trial, may be disallowed later)Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)
Not Allowed:
- "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
- Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes
Other general things that are no longer allowed:
- Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
- Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.
Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
Q: Do you only have to have the Aquatic subtype if you're an outsider?
A: No, you should consider that bit a separate clause. You need to be a fey, humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or outsider, and you also need to have the [Aquatic] subtype.Last edited by Heliomance; 2017-02-08 at 06:42 AM.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
What a strange class...
Does the Wavedancing ability at level 9 actually grants the mount a land speed equal to four times its swim speed?VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Oh boy, I am not so sure that is what I wished for ;) Let's what I can do :D
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
...you're right, that's a very oddly worded ability. Actually, most of the class is terribly worded - I foresee a lot of rules queries!
I'm going to interpret that one as you have to start your movement in water, I think, as the interpretation that hurts my brain the least.Quotebox
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Surf's up, dudes! A prereq. for the class is Ride (an aquatic animal), is that changed to just Ride?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Another question, Chairwoman. How would you interpret in 3.5 terms the Full Mounted Attack ability?
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VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
What a bizarre mess of a class. Well, we'll see what I can do with it.
You are prescient indeed.
1. What does Full Mounted Attack actually do? What did it do back in 3.0? Usually when 3.0 stuff gets updated 'partial action' becomes 'standard action.'
2. I'm still confused about your reading of Wavedancing. What, exactly, does it allow us to do?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
WoohooHOO!!!! :D
I think I'm going to like this round.
For some strange reason, this prestige class has always held a special place in my heart cavity. :DThe beatings will continue until morale improves!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
World-Record-Supermount-PTSD intensifies
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
1. I... have no idea. It almost looks like it's trying to give Mounted Pounce or something. I'm open to suggestions.
2. I'm thinking, so long as you start your movement in the water, your mount can do a great lunge that carries them out of the water and use their momentum to maneuver effectively, allowing to move up to four times their normal swim speed over land. You're not required to end your movement back in water, but it is advised to not beach yourself.Quotebox
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
1. I've always read it as effectively granting Ride-by-Attack. You use a standard action to attack normally at some point during your mounts movement.
Or... An argument could be made that it allows you a Full Attack during your mounts move.
2. Nothing about the class has anything to do with land.
With Wavedancing, you are using the waves of water to augment your speed while in the water.
Breach, Skim, and Wavedancing are all about attacking opponents not currently submerged in open water. They are either walking across the water, or flying above it in some manner.
Think of a horse on land jumping up as high as it can to reach an opponent on top of a cliff or flying. That's essentially what those abilities are letting the Waverider do. Only instead of a cliff, it's the open air above the water.
I hope my wording was clear. All of it's abilities take place in or above water.Last edited by PrismCat21; 2017-02-08 at 09:28 AM.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Full Mounted Attack granting the effects of the Ride-by Attack feat, if not the feat itself, seems to be in the spirit of the ability!
VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
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And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Also, :)
Concerning the Waverider Mount ability, I suggest treating it like a Druid's Animal Companion.
All the listed animals appear on the core list for Druid Animal Companions. I say we should treat as a Druid for when it can gain access to more powerful mounts.
Waverider level 1 for Porpoise and Sea Lion
4 for Large (or medium) Shark (and Hippocampus?)
7 for Elasmosaurus
10 for Orca Whale and Huge Shark
If you decide Waverider stacks with Effective Druid level, that'd be cool as well, but maybe OP a bit barring a feat for it...?Last edited by PrismCat21; 2017-02-08 at 10:13 AM.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
I am befuddled as well. Partial actions is a reference to the 3.0 mounted combat rules, but even in 3.0, attacking on a partial action and making a standard action attack are functionally identical. I looked up the 3.0 mounted combat rules in my 3.0 PHB to see if they are significantly different from 3.5, but as far as I can tell they aren't all that different:
"If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a partial melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack."
If we go by strict RAW here, then the Waverider text does make sense, but it's meaningless as a class ability: you can already make a standard action attack if your mount moves more than 5' even if you weren't a Waverider. Oddly enough... the 3.0 Cavalier in Sword & Fist has the same wording. So I'm going to chalk this up to "the designers never bothered to playtest the mounted combat rules."
Ok... we're dealing with 3.0/3.25 rules, so I think we can use the "minor adjustment" clause from DMG p. 4. Full Mounted Attack appears in several other 3.5 PrCs (Cavalier, Halfling Outrider, and Ashworm Dragoon), and the wording is very consistent:
"Full Mounted Attack (Ex): At 8th level and higher, a halfling outrider may make a full attack when her mount moves more than 5 feet but no more than a single move action. The character cannot combine this full attack with a charge action."
"Full Mounted Attack (Ex): At 6th level and higher, a mounted cavalier can make a full attack when his mount moves more than 5 feet but no farther than a single move action would carry it. The cavalier cannot combine this full attack with a charge."
"Full Mounted Attack (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, you can make a full attack when your mount moves more than 5 feet but no farther than its speed as a single move action. You cannot combine this full attack with a charge action."
So we can just use the same wording here:
Full Mounted Attack (Ex): Beginning at 6th level, a waverider can make a full attack when her mount moves more than 5 feet but no farther than its speed as a single move action. The waverider cannot combine this full attack with a charge action.Handbooks:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
wow, I've never even heard of this class before. it's really annoying to qualify for. probably down to cook.
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Last edited by Heliomance; 2017-02-08 at 10:47 AM.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
I'm not sure I agree with this. Here's the text:
"Wavedancing (Ex): On reaching 9th level, a mounted waverider can maneuver very effectively out of the water. Rider and mount can move up to four times the mount’s swim speed out of water and can make charges, including Ride-By Attacks if the waverider has this feat (normal charge rules apply). In addition, she can now use her breach, sound, and skim abilities in consecutive rounds."
(emphasis added)
I am most likely deliberately misreading this, but "out of the water" in my mind means "on land". By RAW, I am not seeing any requirement that Wavedancing be done anywhere near the water.
Of course, if we want to be deliberately silly about this... there's no requirement that the mount and rider move together. One could say that once the waverider reaches 9th level, the waverider's land speed is reset to 4x his mount's swim speed, even if the rider/mount are acting independently. Which would be awesome... but silly. And even though it might make the builds not so useful in actual play... I like silly.Handbooks:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
trying to get myself to submit a dish after having dithered around for the last many contests ...
A much more simple question through
The ride check bonus, is that of any specific type or is it to be considered untyped hence stackable with everything?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Context matters. Both Breach and Skim also say "out of the water", while Sound says "underneath the water". It's an either/or, separating which side of the water suface you're on. Either "out of the water" above the surface, or "underneath the water" below the surface.
Breach mentions submerging again when attacking "out of the water", and Skim describes "skimming over the surface" (of the water) when charging opponents "out of the water" and submerging again.
No mention of land anywhere.
Wavedancing specifically multiplies potential "swim speed". This ability is about traveling and mobility when not submerged.The beatings will continue until morale improves!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Also note that Wavedancing doesn't actually change your mount's speed. It just allows it to move 4x its speed. So it doesn't grant the bonus on jump checks (like those required for the class features) that high movement speed would ordinarily give you.
This class is a big hot mess of Savage Species, but I think I've got an idea.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Interesting ingredient. Never really read it before. Real life permitting, will try to get an entry in.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
I've only skimmed the text (and I have to run out to work), but on a first read, I have no idea how to parse half of the class's abilities. I think we're going to need a lot of interpretation before we can figure out what the hell these abilities actually let you do.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
This class is hilarious, I'm so ready to cook with it.
Given that wavedancing follows and enhances skim, it seems like it's talking about moving on the water rather than in it, but it's highly confusing.
The text about jumps and distance and the like probably needs to be either more explained or changed.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIV
Another fun thing ... Unless the rules were different in 3.0 (can't recall to be honest), thrown weapons are unable to be used underwater, unless there is a specific source trumping DMG p93