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Thread: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
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2011-02-18, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Ok, warning up-front, what you're about to see has about as much to do with reality as the rest of D&D. Ye be warned. I'm only posting them for easy access later, and so I can say I'm still active with brew.
Now, with that out of the way, I've been working on a few firearms for an upcoming pen-and-paper D&D 3.5 game I'm running. These are meant to fill in a specific ranged weapon niche beside crossbows and bows. Crossbows at Simple, Bows at Martial, Firearms at Exotic; Crossbows are easy to use, have the largest crit range, and reasonable damage (though no stats get added); Bows have the best range, easiest reload, and add Strength with ease; Firearms have short range and are tough to use, but deal great damage with a good crit range. They're not perfectly balanced, but they should be good enough to bother with a feat for.
The firearm reload rules are as follows:
-Single-shot firearms are a standard action to reload. The Firearm Proficiency feat and the Rapid Reload feat each reduce the reload time by one step (from standard to move to free).
Table: Firearms
Firearms Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type One-Handed Firearms Pistol 200 gp1d101d12x350 ft3 lbs.Piercing Revolver 300 gp1d101d12x360 ft4 lbs.Piercing Two-Handed Firearms Bolt-Action Rifle 800 gp2d102d12x3120 ft8 lbs.Piercing Long Distance Rifle 1200 gp1d122d8x3300 ft12 lbs.Piercing Siege Weaponry Repeating Rifle 2000 gp1d81d10x3120 ft80 lbs.Piercing Ammunition Pistol Round 1 sp----1/2 lbs.- Rifle Round 5 sp----1/2 lbs.- Melee Weaponry Gun Butt -1d41d6x2-As gunBludgeoning Bayonet 5 gp1d61d819-20/x2-As gunPiercing
Weapon Details:
Pistol: The basic one-handed percussion cap firearm, the pistol is the default sidearm weapon of anyone who uses firearms. A pistol holds one shot.
Revolver: An experimental weapon developed by a singular dwarven clan, the revolver is a pistol with a rotating clip of 5 shots, permitting it to engage in iterative attacks. Reloading the clip is a full-round action, standard with Rapid Reload.
Bolt-Action Rifle: The standard two-handed firearm, the bolt-action rifle provides power at range, at the cost of reloading time. The bolt-action rifle holds one shot.
Long Distance Rifle: Much like the revolver, the long distance rifle (LDR) is an experimental rifle variant that uses a lighter round that flies farther than normal firearms. The LDR holds one shot.
Repeating Rifle: Not a handheld weapon, the repeating rifle is 6 bolt-action rifles strapped to a rotating mechanism and gravity fed rounds from a 3-ft long magazine. A repeating rifle is the size of a small catapult and requires a crew of three to operate. However, it fire 6 times per attack and can burn the entire magazine in a few minutes of sustained fire. Repeating rifles are large and are mounted on fortification walls or on wheels for transportation. Reloading a repeating rifle takes two people and 1 minute. A repeating rifle magazine holds 180 rounds, and costs 90 gp.
Gun Butt: Just the handle or stock of a firearm, the gun butt is a handy secondary weapon, in the case of someone closing to melee range. The gun butt deals the same damage, no matter the weapon. The gun butt of a pistol or revolver is a one-handed weapon for purposes of Strength to damage, and the gun butt of a rifle or LDR is a two-handed weapon for purposes of Strength to damage. Gun butts benefit from the enhancement bonus of the firearm, but not any other magical enhancements (ie. when using a +2 flaming revolver for a gun butt attack, you gain the +2 bonus to attacks and damage, but not the +1d6 fire damage). Gun butts benefit from the Weapon Focus feat for the firearm they're attached to.
Bayonet: Functionally a dagger hung from the barrel of a rifle weapon, the bayonet makes a fine melee weapon for the rifle user in a hurry to just stab someone after shooting them. A bayonet can only be attached to a rifle, and counts as a two-handed weapon for purposes of Strength to damage. Attaching or detaching a bayonet takes a standard action. Bayonets are enchanted separately from the firearm they're attached to. Bayonets benefit from the Weapon Focus feat for the firearm they're attached to.
New Feats!
By unosarta:Spoiler
Eyes of the Sniper [Tactical]
You gain abilities of stealth and movement that allow you kill your enemies most efficiently.
Prerequisites: Far Shot, Hide 9 ranks, Spot 9 ranks, Base Attack Bonus +6; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) or Weapon Focus with a type of Bow or ranged weapon
Benefits: You gain new maneuvers
Keen Eyes: As a standard action, you may study your enemy. You may make a spot check, with a DC equal to your enemy’s Hit Dice. If you make the check, you deal an extra 1d6 per four hit dice you possess on all ranged attacks made against that opponent for the rest of the encounter (minimum 1d6). You also may ignore any cover besides full cover that that target has, and you may ignore any damage reduction they possess.
Shot on the Run: As a full round action, you may move up to your base land speed and make a full attack action, with all attacks in the round made at a -2 penalty. You may make a Hide check while moving in this way even if you do not have cover, as if you had Hide-in-Plain-Sight ability, at no penalty.
Camouflage: As a move action, you may camouflage yourself. As long as you do not move more than 5 feet per round, you gain a +5 bonus to all hide checks while camouflaged. If you make a ranged attack against an enemy, they take a -5 penalty to the spot check in order to locate you. If you do move, you lose these benefits, and can regain them as a move action.
Long Arm of the Law [Tactical]
Your training with rifles, guns, and other ranged guns has given you new combat maneuvers.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms), Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefits: You gain new combat maneuvers
Sparrow Shot: As a standard action, you may make a ranged touch attack against an opponent within range with a firearm. If you hit, you deal half of the damage you would have done normally, and that target's movement speed is reduced by 5 feet. If the attack is a critical hit, the movement speed reduction is multiplied by the critical hit multiplier. This ability stacks with itself, but the target's movement speeds cannot ever be reduced lower than 5 feet in this way.
Eyes of the Just: As a move action, you may stare down your target. You may make an Intimidate check, opposed by his opponent's modified level check (as detailed in the Intimidate entry of the SRD, or the player's handbook). If you beat the opponents opposed check, you may make a ranged attack against that opponent, with a +5 bonus to the shot.
Silver's Charge: While mounted, you may, as a full round action, have you mount charge in any direction, moving a distance of up to twice its base land speed. While moving, you may make a full attack against a single opponent as a swift action.
By Mulletmanalive:
Spoiler
Fancy Shootin' [Tactical]:
You have learned, at the cost of a large number of bottles, to shoot in some rather odd ways.
Prerequisites: BAB +4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Decription: You gain the following abilities, all of which are Fear effects:
Buzzing Insects [Strike]: As a Standard action, you may fire a shot at your target that doesn't hit but goes so close to their ear as to hurt and disorient them. Make a touch attack against the target; if it hits, the target must make a Fortitude save or be Deafened for 5 rounds and Stunned for one round. Deaf targets are immune to this trick.
Dance Pardner [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you may fire several shots into the ground around the feet of a target within one range category. The target must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or move 5ft in a direction of your choice. If you are able to fire multiple shots via a special ability or high level, you gain a +2 bonus to the save DC per additional shot fired.
Riccochets [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you can fire bullets at targets in cover to keep them there. Targets in a 10ft square must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or be unable to move or stand up if prone for one round. If you can make multiple attacks via a feat, ability or high BAB, each additional shot increases the DC by +2.
By me!
Firearm Knockback [Fighter, Firearm]
You've managed a technique that's deemed suicidally insane by most, that of the knockback and fire.
Prerequisites: Firearm Proficiency, Weapon Focus (any firearm), Improved Bull Rush
Benefits: As a standard action, you can perform a firearm knockback. You make a single attack at your highest attack bonus with the gun butt of the firearm for which you have Weapon Focus. If you hit the target, you make a bull rush attempt against them. If you succeed in pushing them back at least 5-ft, you can then make a single attack with your firearm at your highest attack bonus. If you fail to push them back, the firearm knockback fails.
Normal: You can't do the above.
Focus Fire [Fighter, Firearm]
Your ability to aim is incredible, far surpassing your peers.
Prerequisites: Firearm Proficiency, Weapon Focus (any two-handed firearm), Far Shot, BAB +6
Benefits: As a full-round action, you may take aim at an opponent. For each round that you aim in this way, you gain a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus to your next attack (so +1 total in the first round, +2 total in the second, +3 total in the third, etc). You may aim in this way for up to your character level/two rounds. At the end of any round in which you are aiming, you can fire as part of that action.
Superior Focus Fire [Fighter, Firearm]
Your aim is legendary, and you can hit targets with pinpoint accuracy.
Prerequisites: Firearm Proficiency, Weapon Focus (any two-handed firearm), Far Shot, Focus Fire, BAB +11
Benefits: When you use Focus Fire, you instead gain a scaling bonus to your next attack (so +1 total in the first round, +3 total in the second, +6 total in the third, etc). However, you can only aim for up to your character level/three rounds now.Last edited by arguskos; 2014-04-05 at 10:58 PM.
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2011-02-18, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Looks pretty good, useful and balanced in my opinion.
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2011-02-18, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Ken Hood's firearm rules (link leads to a post with an attached zip file).
Mechanics should reflect flavor. Always.
Journey: The journey of a thousand steps begins beneath your feet... (WIP)
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2011-02-18, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Good. I was unsure if this was an appropriate set-up for a dabble into the firearm arts.
While nice of you to provide a link, I would kinda appreciate more than "use someone else's work". Why should I use that? Is there an overarching issue with my ideas above? If so, I'd appreciate you explaining it, so I can fix it.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-18, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
I'd up the damage dice on the one-shot weapons to make them more useful compared to a bow and arrow. There's a gun thread right above this one where I lay out my firearm rules with a few explanations. I also lay out rules for suppressive fire and a few feats. Note that I designed my guns to fit into D&D, not mimic real-world firearms.
For instance, looking at the pistol, is there any advantage to carrying one over a bow?Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2011-02-18 at 02:56 PM.
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2011-02-18, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
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2011-02-18, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Bingo. Also, damage die size.
The idea was to create a viable alternative without overpowering the guns or obsoleting bows/crossbows. Your rules, Gaurd Juris, seem to REPLACE bows/crossbows, or at least do it very effectively. Remember, any feats that exist for ranged combat apply here as well, as would many prestige classes (unless your DM is a ****, which sucks).
I'll admit to kinda wanting to see someone dual-wield revolvers. There'd be a penalty, but it's be pretty neato. Also, the New York Reload (drop the pistol, pull a new one, keep shooting) is totally possible here thanks to Quick Draw, which is awesome.Last edited by arguskos; 2011-02-18 at 03:49 PM.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-18, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Reloading a 1-shot pistol as a free action seems kind of ridiculous. That being said, the only advantage over a cross bow I can see is you can reload it faster by spending an extra feat. The pistol doesn't seem especially different than the light crossbow in this way, other than a small damage upgrade. You could easily just make an improved rapid reload feat for x-bows that make reloading a free action and you'd have almost the same weapon.
I would say that my rules replace cross bows, but normal bows are still viable since reloading them is always a free action, and reloading a gun never is! I actually developed the rifle for a revolutionary war game to make muskets viable vs. Indian bows and arrows. I needed them to be actually effective. The idea is to match the effectiveness of a bow in a gameplay perspective.
Firing a pistol, dropping it, and free-drawing a second pistol is totally bad ass though. It would be even more bad ass if it dealt 2d6 damage. : ) Ditto for dual-wielding revolvers.Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2011-02-18 at 03:54 PM.
Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
Spoiler
Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.
Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)
PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.
Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
Spoiled Flush Games
Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.
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2011-02-18, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Why is it ridiculous? I mean, IRL, a skilled user can breech-load a rifle in under 3 seconds (seen it done multiple times, I know it's possible). Why should a percussion cap pistol be any different?
Besides, this is D&D, home of the crazy and far out there rules! I'm letting it fly, cause it's awesome.
I would say that my rules replace cross bows, but normal bows are still viable since reloading them is always a free action, and reloading a gun never is! I actually developed the rifle for a revolutionary war game to make muskets viable vs. Indian bows and arrows. I needed them to be actually effective. The idea is to match the effectiveness of a bow in a gameplay perspective.
Firing a pistol, dropping it, and free-drawing a second pistol is totally bad ass though. It would be even more bad ass if it dealt 2d6 damage. : ) Ditto for dual-wielding revolvers.
Also, imagine a Kensai using a Bolt-Action or an LDR.
So far, I'm quite pleased with these rules. Should damage actually prove to be too low, I'll boost it in play, though I doubt that'll prove needed. In case though, I'll change it.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-18, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Loading a pistol in three seconds isn't far fetched... that's a move action. Loading a pistol in 0 seconds with no free hands is far fetched.
The rules will probably function fine in practice, but I don't see the firearms you've presented here as viable compared to bows. They don't appear to be major upgrade in effectiveness on any level, and are overall a downgrade. I support giving guns a bigger damage die and letting bows still have their advantages--I did the same thing. I just don't think you went far enough.
Gun kensai would be awesome, however.
Oh, and consider my suppressive fire and taking aim rules (along with the feats that go with them). IMO that stuff is a big part of firefight combat.Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2011-02-18 at 04:26 PM.
Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
Spoiler
Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.
Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)
PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.
Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
Spoiled Flush Games
Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.
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2011-02-18, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Since you're aimed at the Guns Akimbo line of firearm awesomeness, keep in mind enchanting multiple weapons gets expensive really fast, plus the problems that already exist with both ranged combat and two-weapon fighting (a.k.a. total feat sink). While I enjoy the imagery, it takes a while to setup, so you'll be piddling away for awhile before you can turn yourself into a badass.
Also, Rapid Shot only gives one extra attack, not one per weapon. Annoying, I know, which is why I explicitly point out that bit out in my Crossbow Slinger PrC, should you want to see how I got crossbows up to Guns Akimbo.
Happy gunslinging! :DLast edited by Cieyrin; 2011-02-18 at 04:34 PM.
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2011-02-18, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
D&D. Seriously. You have people that, using a sword can sunder boulders. That's hardly realistic either, but there you have it. I'm fine with some unrealistic stuff, personally.
The rules will probably function fine in practice, but I don't see the firearms you've presented here as viable compared to bows. They don't appear to be major upgrade in effectiveness on any level, and are overall a downgrade. I support giving guns a bigger damage die and letting bows still have their advantages--I did the same thing. I just don't think you went far enough.
The pistols shouldn't be better than bows. They're PISTOLS, they're sidearms at best. They're not primary weapons. For example, who uses the Light Crossbow or Shortbow as their primary weapon?
Gun kensai would be awesome, however.
Oh, and consider my suppressive fire and taking aim rules (along with the feats that go with them). IMO that stuff is a big part of firefight combat.
EDIT: Cieryin (hope I got that right, I'm editing and can't actually SEE your name properly), I know that. I think Multishot and Improved Rapid Shot can help fix that though, at least partially. I'll have to fiddle with the numbers as this game goes (we're level 5 atm, so it's not super-relevant).Last edited by arguskos; 2011-02-18 at 04:36 PM.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-18, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
One reason pistols are better: They are more easily concealable than a crossbow/bow.
The rifles also have the benefit of being used as melee weapons, which can of course be applied to crossbows however they'd be much more awkward and thus take a stiffer attack penalty than rifles.
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2011-02-18, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Ever heard about a certain Roland Deschain ? Like most fantasy characters, even if he is an awesome gunslinger, he probably isn't over level 8 in d&d. It is normal that someone reloading a weapon at such speed that it can be left out completely (a free action) seems incredibly far fetched to us, but it can and should be common past a certain level in d&d because we're entering the realm of heroes and superhumans here.
As for the general balance, it seems fine, but if people think that it takes to many feats to achieve a free action reload, than perhaps consider combining a few feats together ? Quick Draw (or even Improved Initiative) and Rapid Reload could easily be made into one and not break anybodies game. All those feats fit the usual concepts nicely and don't add any power to anyone else except crossbow wielders, who could take the power boost too.Last edited by I, Dashing Cube; 2011-02-18 at 10:14 PM.
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2011-02-20, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Ignoring the work of others just because it isn't yours seems silly to me.
Why should I use that?
I have posted a link to a much lengthier document than your post, with significantly more customization options, explanations of why particular mechanics were chosen, and is significantly more fleshed-out than what you've got here.
So you tell me - why would I use your work over Ken Hood's? What does yours have to offer that's different, that makes it stand out, that makes the choice between yours and Ken Hood's work meaningful? Otherwise the only reason to use what you've got here is ignorance of the work of others, and that's a poor reason to choose one set of mechanics over another.Mechanics should reflect flavor. Always.
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2011-02-20, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
The firearm rules by Ken Hood are probably more real-world accurate, but without more examples, they aren't all that useful. I'm not going to work though the design features to see what comes up, I want examples ready to use.
Privater Press published a free 2-page pdf called Firearms Basics v1.0, which closely resembles the above chart. Here's the sample pistol for comparison:
Small Pistol: This weapon’s main virtue is that it is easy to conceal, being only 9 in. long. 400 gp, 2d4 piercing, reload 1S/DC6, crit
19–20/x3, range 40 ft., 4 lb.
DebbyLast edited by Debihuman; 2011-02-20 at 12:03 PM.
P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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2011-02-20, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
That's not what I said. What I asked for was a reason to use his work. I didn't ignore it. In fact, I downloaded and read through it. I found it well done, if a bit not to my liking.
No. The question is why shouldn't you use it.
I have posted a link to a much lengthier document than your post, with significantly more customization options, explanations of why particular mechanics were chosen, and is significantly more fleshed-out than what you've got here.
Now, if I wanted a full set of detailed firearm rules for a Renissance or Civil War era game, ok, that's a good place to start. I don't, or I would have produced such a thing.
So you tell me - why would I use your work over Ken Hood's? What does yours have to offer that's different, that makes it stand out, that makes the choice between yours and Ken Hood's work meaningful? Otherwise the only reason to use what you've got here is ignorance of the work of others, and that's a poor reason to choose one set of mechanics over another.
And, I must be honest, when I asked for a double-check, and someone provides a link to someone else's work with no explanation as to why, and then calls me ignorant, I'm somewhat disappointed.
@Debihuman: I probably should figure out some new feats. I'll be working closely with the samurai (T.G. Oskar's Samurai, btws) player in this upcoming game to figure out what feats he's going to need/want that don't already exist, and then we'll make it happen. He's kind of the test bed for these rules.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-20, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Just felt kind of inspired by the idea of a gun-totting Samurai. Here is a tactical feat. Tell me if you think it is too "western", and I can change parts of it.
Long Arm of the Law [Tactical]
Your training with rifles, guns, and other ranged guns has given you new combat maneuvers.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms), Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefits: You gain new combat maneuvers
Sparrow Shot: As a standard action, you may make a ranged touch attack against an opponent within range with a firearm. If you hit, you deal half of the damage you would have done normally, and that target's movement speed is reduced by 5 feet. If the attack is a critical hit, the movement speed reduction is multiplied by the critical hit multiplier. This ability stacks with itself, but the target's movement speeds cannot ever be reduced lower than 5 feet in this way.
Eyes of the Just: As a move action, you may stare down your target. You may make an Intimidate check, opposed by his opponent's modified level check (as detailed in the Intimidate entry of the SRD, or the player's handbook). If you beat the opponents opposed check, you may make a ranged attack against that opponent, with a +5 bonus to the shot.
Silver's Charge: While mounted, you may, as a full round action, have you mount charge in any direction, moving a distance of up to twice its base land speed. While moving, you may make a full attack against a single opponent as a swift action.Last edited by unosarta; 2011-02-20 at 05:37 PM.
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2011-02-20, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Looks good overall. Couple questions to make sure I understand a couple things.
Bayonet - why is there no cost? Do all rifles come with a bayonet included in the price? Or does "functionally a dagger" mean that you just buy a dagger and attach it to your rifle?
Gun butt and bayonet - do they get the enhancements of the rest of the gun or are they enhanced separately. Given the lack of cost, I'd assume that they either get the full weapon enhancement or maybe the enhancement bonus, but not the magical enhancements (e.g. you get +2 to attack and damage with the butt of a +2 flaming pistol, but not the d6 fire damage). I could see that making sense for gun butt, but Complete Scoundrel sort of set a precedent for bayonets with the bow blades (enhanced separate from the ranged weapon and an attack penalty), so I was wondering if you'd use those rules (probably dropping the attack penalty).
Random thought/suggestion (sort of depends on the answer to how gun butts are enhanced) - have you considered making rifles a double-weapon instead of a two-handed weapon? One end firing bullets or having the bayonet and the other end the gun butt. You would have the option to use only one and as a two-handed weapon instead (like how quarterstaff should be, but isn't). Just a thought, if only because it could be interesting to, say, have a character with knockback knock an opponent away with the gun butt before shooting him with the rifle end to avoid the AoO. Just a thought.
On the whole, like I said, looks good.Homebrew
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2011-02-20, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
I imagine reloading one handed would look something like this.
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2011-02-20, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
I just love the smell of black powder in the morning
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2011-02-20, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-02-20, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Better than the DMG rules, that's for sure.
So, Firearm Proficiency applies to all of them, and reduces reload time by one step? That seems reasonable.
Also, I feel like gun butt attacks should provoke attacks of opportunity. I mean, while it's definitely effective, that is still basically as much of an improvised weapon as stabbing someone with a broken bottle or whapping them with a broom.Last edited by Keinnicht; 2011-02-20 at 04:54 PM.
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2011-02-20, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
I actually really like this. However, is there any way we can divorce it from Samurai and make it a little more broadly applicable for all firearm wielders? I love tactical feats and I love the Western Gunslinger feel I get from this one specifically, but want non-samurai to be able to get in there as well.
Also, out of curiosity, why is Silver's Charge in there?
Well. That's a great question. However, if you look closely, you'll see there is indeed a cost. I forgot one, thanks for the reminder
Gun butt and bayonet - do they get the enhancements of the rest of the gun or are they enhanced separately. Given the lack of cost, I'd assume that they either get the full weapon enhancement or maybe the enhancement bonus, but not the magical enhancements (e.g. you get +2 to attack and damage with the butt of a +2 flaming pistol, but not the d6 fire damage). I could see that making sense for gun butt, but Complete Scoundrel sort of set a precedent for bayonets with the bow blades (enhanced separate from the ranged weapon and an attack penalty), so I was wondering if you'd use those rules (probably dropping the attack penalty).
Gun butts gain the enhancement bonus of the gun to attacks and damage, but not the special effects, as befits their place as a last-ditch weapon. I'll make a note of that above.
Random thought/suggestion (sort of depends on the answer to how gun butts are enhanced) - have you considered making rifles a double-weapon instead of a two-handed weapon? One end firing bullets or having the bayonet and the other end the gun butt. You would have the option to use only one and as a two-handed weapon instead (like how quarterstaff should be, but isn't). Just a thought, if only because it could be interesting to, say, have a character with knockback knock an opponent away with the gun butt before shooting him with the rifle end to avoid the AoO. Just a thought.
Firearm Knockback [Fighter, Firearm]
You've managed a technique that's deemed suicidally insane by most, that of the knockback and fire.
Prerequisites: Firearm Proficiency, Weapon Focus (any firearm), Improved Bull Rush
Benefits: As a standard action, you can perform a firearm knockback. You make a single attack at your highest attack bonus with the gun butt of the firearm for which you have Weapon Focus. If you hit the target, you make a bull rush attempt against them. If you succeed in pushing them back at least 5-ft, you can then make a single attack with your firearm at your highest attack bonus. If you fail to push them back, the firearm knockback fails.
Normal: You can't do the above.
On the whole, like I said, looks good.
Oh yeah, it's a terrible idea when you factor in realism, but I think that, with some training, a special maneuver could be created that would let you gun butt someone, flip the gun around, and pop one off at them. I don't think it'd be the best of ideas, but it could be cool. See the above feat for a first-blush idea.
Indeed! A clever reload, that one. Though, reloading revolvers still takes a moment.
Pre-Edit: Cieyrin, many people miss that line. Dunno why.
Actual EDIT:
Yep. I wanted to still require a feat, but make feat taxing too terrible.
Also, I feel like gun butt attacks should provoke attacks of opportunity. I mean, while it's definitely effective, that is still basically as much of an improvised weapon as stabbing someone with a broken bottle or whapping them with a broom.Last edited by arguskos; 2011-02-20 at 04:58 PM.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-20, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Having had bayonet training (admittedly, basic training was a long while ago, now), I'd agree that bashing someone in the face with the gun butt or using a rifle as a melee weapon is no more improvised or attack provoking than using it otherwise. It's not quite the same as smacking somebody with a bow, as firearms tend to be sturdier and can still fire after bludgeoning somebody.
Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-02-20 at 05:08 PM.
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2011-02-20, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
I suppose. Really, none of the abilities are truly based on samurai abilities, but are certainly similar to them, I suppose.
Also, a Paladin with the Long Arm of the Law and Ranged Smite would be pretty fun. Or a ranger really.
Because the Samurai's Kyuujutsu line is based on the Japanese Hankyuu, which is a longbow used while mounted. A few of those abilities also give a bonus to riding stuff for that exact reason. Also, it is rather tropetastic for western shooters to also have a horse (which is what Silver is from, Silver being the Lone Ranger's horse). Shooting from a horse, or a horse chase-scene is a classic for any western movie or show. In actuality? Horses were really necessary in an area where the climate is really desperate and harsh.
[Edit]: And the feat is updated, no reference to Samurai, and all of the pronouns have been changed to second person, from third person.Last edited by unosarta; 2011-02-20 at 05:38 PM.
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2011-02-20, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
Yeah, that's the idea I had actually. Long Arm of the Law and other ranged attacks like Smite and whatnot would be a great combo.
Because the Samurai's Kyuujutsu line is based on the Japanese Hankyuu, which is a longbow used while mounted. A few of those abilities also give a bonus to riding stuff for that exact reason. Also, it is rather tropetastic for western shooters to also have a horse (which is what Silver is from, Silver being the Lone Ranger's horse). Shooting from a horse, or a horse chase-scene is a classic for any western movie or show. In actuality? Horses were really necessary in an area where the climate is really desperate and harsh.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2011-02-20, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
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2011-02-20, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]
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