Results 1,201 to 1,230 of 1492
-
2012-09-22, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
-
2012-09-22, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Not wanting exacting detail of every pound carried is not the same thing as not concerned about it at all. The rules should be enough to explain that a character cannot carry 5 great axes, 4 great swords, 3 suits of platemail, 2 chests of goldpieces, and a partridge in a pear tree. It's not necessary to account for every pound, how it's carried, where it's carried, how easy or difficult it is to reach a specific item, etc. For those who want such exacting detail an optional rules supplement module is fine. We can both have our way.
-
2012-09-22, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
How about this then for a simple formula. 10x Str to encumber. That number x Str bonus (min 2)= Max lift.
So at Str 10, encumbrance at 100 lbs, lift 200. At Str 3, encumbered at 30, Max 60. At Str 20, encumbered at 200, Max 1000.
I think this particular issue is important, especially because it is the only quantitative tie to ability scores.
I'd rather see the formula as Str x 5 for encumbered, and Str bonus x 2 (min 2).
That means encumbered characters all over the place, yes, but they should be. I can see a trained person moving pretty well with armor and gear, but the guy next to him in shorts and a t shirt is going to move better.
-
2012-09-22, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
-
2012-09-22, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I don't really mind either way, I'm just explaining my point of view as to why they're changing it.
Though in the future, when cutting down a post to note continuity of discussion, can you toss some kind of brackets around your summary so you identify it's not a direct quote? I actually had to link back to the post to realize you weren't directly quoting me, and was referring to the content of my post (<> and {} are unused grammatically, so those would be preferable to [] which is generally used to point out or correct errors in a text).
-
2012-09-22, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I like it. It's simple, it gets the same range across well, and if you let the attributes scale above 20 (another DDN design decision I am very opposed to) it lets strength scale very quickly. Maybe make it strx5 for max before encumbered, strx10 for max encumbered, and multiply by str bonus for max lift.
Let's see
Max Unencumbered/Encumbered/Lift
3e:
10-33/100/200
14-58/175/350
18-100/300/600
22-173/520/1040
26-306/920/1840
30-532/1600/3200
Your system:
10-50/100/200
14-70/140/280
18-90/180/720
22-110/220/1320
26-130/260/2080
30-150/300/3000
The numbers fit reasonably well for the 10-20 range within human capability. The encumbered numbers are reasonable enough; a little more lenient than 3e. The encumbrance values don't scale as quickly past that as it does in 3e, but by the time you get to those strength values it doesn't matter much anyway since you do have extra-dimensional space.
On the other hand, the max lift keeps up nicely, and something equally simple like a x3 multiplier can be added for max push/drag, which means high strength characters still have something to add to exploration, namely the ability to easily move around extremely large things.If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
-
2012-09-23, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
-
2012-09-23, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
-
2012-09-23, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Unfriend Zone
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
That sounds fine. My problem is with the idea that low level characters should be afraid of everything because they have so few hit points. Even a low-level character should not be seriously threatened by a giant rat...that's like your soldier coming back from a tour in war and getting killed by a corgi! I'm not a skilled combatant by any means but I'm fairly certain that it'd take a large number of corgis to seriously injure me unless there were some pretty extreme circumstances.
Spoiler
The disease that rats may be carrying, however, is an entirely different matter.
-
2012-09-23, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
But see, even that is more than most people are going to care about. A simple multiplication is easier to remember and apply in practice, and having the numbers be somewhat high means that they won't come up unless the player tries to do something absurd, which is also good.
If you make the fairly restrictive by default, then players might feel like they need to follow those rules even if they don't really want to. I had a similar experience with the 3.5 rules. Our group tried to follow them, which always involved looking up the rules every few minutes and lots of time wasted trying to figure out who could carry how much and how encumbered they were and so on and so forth. I'd far prefer a system that is very simple, easy to remember, and not too intrusive to playing the game.5e Homebrew: Death Knight (Class), Kensai (Monk Subclass)Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.
-
2012-09-23, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Oh, but it can be much easier. For example, every item is either small or big; just mark the big ones with a * in the equipment list. You can carry an unlimited amount of small items (subject to DM veto if you try something really silly), and you can carry an amount of big items equal to your strength modifier. Done.
This means that not everybody is going to carry a tent, rope-and-grapple, and so forth, but that's not basic equipment anyway. I find the notion rather silly that every adventurer would always carry "a mirror, crowbar, rope, grappling hook, lantern, waterskin, tent".
Most people are going to ignore encumbrance rules anyway. That means that (if they still do the "module" thing that we've seen no sign of in playtest) encumbrance should be an optional module. However, for the sake of people that like encumbrance rules, this module should then make sense; otherwise there's no point in having it.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2012-09-23, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
In my experience, encumbrance is hand-waved most of the time, but invoked under special circumstances. Nobody's gona care about that Bobs character put three flasks of lamp oil in his backpack, but if he tries something like this "So, there are three suits of Fullplate in the Armory, you say? Great and stuff them into my backpack and..." the likely response of the DM is something along the lines of "Hold on a second. They don't fit into your backpack. Besides, what's your carrying capacity?"
So, uhm.. I agree that if there are rules for encumbrance at all, they should make at least a bit of sense.
-
2012-09-23, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Even a low-level character should not be seriously threatened by a giant rat...that's like your soldier coming back from a tour in war and getting killed by a corgi
-
2012-09-23, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
The thing about this is that it is more like getting killed by an average sized pit bull while armed and armored, except for instead of being a predatory pack hunter it is instead an over sized scavenger. A pit bull attack is a scary dangerous thing when you're wearing normal clothing and have a pocket knife at best. When you're carting a sword around and are armored from head to toe it's not nearly as much of a problem.
These almost universally do this with either poison or disease. Given the extent to which D&D healing magic vastly exceeds modern medical attention in basically every respect, disease is generally not a concern, and neither are relatively slow acting poisons.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
-
2012-09-23, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
It is my belief that a particularly determined grey squirrel could take down the average American. (Specifically because I'm not familiar with other people, just my neighbours and classmates.)
Well, if you're armed and armoured and well-rested, sure, that dire rat isn't particularly threatening. If you're not well-trained with that weapon (low levels or nonproficient) or already exhausted (low hit points), then it's not that much of a stretch to have a dire rat or a large dog take down an armed man. And most characters don't wear full plate, so you can't assume most characters will be armoured "from head to toe".Last edited by noparlpf; 2012-09-23 at 09:50 AM.
Jude P.
-
2012-09-23, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Full plate isn't necessary. If you look at the stuff dog trainers use to get attacked in, it's basically a heavy gambeson, heavy pants and a helmet. In short, it is the equivalent of padded armor to use D&D terms, which is about as light as it gets. As for weapon training, you're essentially guaranteed to have a major reach advantage regardless, while up against something used to fighting other quadrupeds with teeth and claws and not bipeds with legitimate weapons. An ROUS is probably not an issue.
That's not to say that animals shouldn't be dangerous, but that the wrong animals currently are. It's one thing to be seriously threatened by a bear, or by most decently sized water animals while in the water, or a pack of wolves, and another entirely to be threatened by a rat.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
-
2012-09-23, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Unfriend Zone
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Precisely.
And, again, even 1st-level adventurers are trained with a basic proficiency in whatever weapon they wield - sword or spell. They are not utter noobs, not commoners, and should not be threatened by vermin. The game is Dungeons & Dragons, not Cornfields and Cottontails.
-
2012-09-23, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
Jude P.
-
2012-09-23, 11:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I think the main question is not of how "weak" first-level characters should be, but rather whether players should have the expectation that every combat is a level-appropriate challenge that they can be expected to defeat with a certain resource expenditure.
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2012-09-23, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
You can't have it both ways, though. From the DM side of the screen, I can either (1) have a set of useful guidelines which will tell me what a good challenge for my party should be, or (2) not have one. Given a choice as a DM between having useful guidelines and not having them, I'd rather have them every time.
I agree the expectation should not be there on the player side, but rules-savvy players will know it's there.
From there, it's a matter of DM style; my players know that not every fight in my 4e game will be beatable, even though 4e has a very accurate system for setting "level-appropriate" challenges. The difference is that I know which are which.
-OLast edited by obryn; 2012-09-23 at 11:52 AM.
-
2012-09-23, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I think this is an important point that Obryn is making; my issues with 3.5's CR system was that it was often comparing apples to oranges in terms of difficulty. There's already a bunch of random chance in the game thanks to using a d20 to accomplish most any action; don't compound the problem by allowing that "luck" to determine whether a player lives or dies (thanks to, for example, a lucky critical hit by a level 1 orc for 2d4+4 x 2 damage).
-
2012-09-23, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
When you're carting a sword around and are armored from head to toe it's not nearly as much of a problem
Now a pack of dire rats, well that's another story. The again, a pack of pit bulls is too.
and another entirely to be threatened by a rat.
They are not utter noobs, not commoners, and should not be threatened by vermin. The game is Dungeons & Dragons, not Cornfields and Cottontails.
I should also mention in general, something in regards to the dangers posed by a dire rats teeth. Rodent teeth in general, are very shap, more so than your dogs. A standard hamster can gnaw its way through metal if given time (I should know, mine did), now imagine that sort of shap teeth, made bigger, and given the strength of a 50 lb animal's jaw.Last edited by 1337 b4k4; 2012-09-23 at 12:15 PM.
-
2012-09-23, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
As a DM I've had terrible luck with monsters pulled from WotC's Monster Manuals. They're either too weak for their CR and the party kills everything with hardly any damage taken at all, or they're way too strong for their CR and the party dies.
So now I don't use printed materials as much. (When I use a DM screen and they can't see my dice, I lie a little bit, but then I'm still not using the printed monsters, I'm making up fair numbers.)
I don't think that's what any business wants to have happen, because then I'm less likely to purchase the splatbooks or later editions' manuals.
Edit:
Personally I'd grab the axe from the side of the door and charge, because [expletive], that's my house, get the [expletive] out, you [expletive] rat!
But then I doubt most people keep an axe by the door like I do.Last edited by noparlpf; 2012-09-23 at 12:19 PM.
Jude P.
-
2012-09-23, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The Hurricane State
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
There are a few things I won't mind or want from 3.5E, building encounters is NOt one of them. They need to burn all that material and forget that it ever existed when compared to 4E. That is one of the best features of 4E over 3.5 in my personal opinion.
About the rat...
I know personally I will grab some form of a stick (broom, base ball bat, my walking cane, etc) and proceed to kill the thing.
If there were multiple rats, then I would be closing the door and seeking for help. One? I think I could take it.
-
2012-09-23, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
The 3.X CR system was completely broken. Instead of ignoring it, they should learn from it as a bad example.
About the rat...
I know personally I will grab some form of a stick (broom, base ball bat, my walking cane, etc) and proceed to kill the thing.
If there were multiple rats, then I would be closing the door and seeking for help. One? I think I could take it.Jude P.
-
2012-09-23, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
It's not that the CR system is broken. It's just that a huge number of creatures has completely wrong numbers assigned.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
-
2012-09-23, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
-
2012-09-23, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Seattle, USA
- Gender
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
The CR system was broken, as the number CR didn't actually mean anything, it's just an arbitrary assignment of how tough monster feels. At the core of the d20 system is a lot of math, which the CR system ignores. There's no indication or rules for how much health, AC, or damage a creature should have at different levels, every monster is just placed where they feel right.
If CR meant something, we would have never seen the giant crabs at CR 3"Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
-
2012-09-23, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Unfriend Zone
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
I grew up in the rural midwest U.S. I've been clearing rats that size out of the corn crib since I was 12 years old. Obviously, a giant rat is an appropriate encounter for an adolescent commoner, not a 1st-level adventurer.
Seriously, though, a 50lb. rat is a capybara. NOT SCARY.
-
2012-09-23, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: D&D 5th Editon Discussion: 6th thread and counting
That's largely because 3.x didn't have a robust mathematical "spine" like 4e did, instead relying on its class/level system to try and build monsters in PC-like fashions.
With 4e, I know (for example) that a monster should have (Level +5) attacks vs. AC and do an average of (Level + 8) damage. You can still break the system by doing stuff like giving at-will stuns or whatever, but the math is directly related to creature stats. On the other hand, I could throw a high Strength, Natural Armor, or Con at a 3e monster, have it mess up balance, and leave the CR unaffected.
-O